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#20656 - 02/16/12 06:13 AM Mountain Lion, the next cat
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
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Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#20657 - 02/16/12 07:14 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Somehow I don't see this as a major OS upgrade to Lion.

If all it's doing is making the Mac more like an iPad — seemingly by merely adding embellishments like Messages, Notification Center, Reminders, Notes and Game Center, all to be coordinated within iCloud — then for people like me who don't have/want an iPad, iPhone, iPod and their ilk and who don't play games and who are highly suspicious of iCloud, it's a complete and utter "pass".

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#20658 - 02/16/12 08:10 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
That's my reaction, exactly. In fact, as a card-carrying Luddite, I don't find that Lion has anything to offer me over Snow Leopard. Yes, there are a few things that look nice, but I don't want to give up Rosetta and the "improvements" are not worth the PITA of upgrading. So far, I'll stick with 10.6. Gatekeeper, however, looks interesting.


Edited by jchuzi (02/16/12 08:12 AM)
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#20659 - 02/16/12 08:34 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
joemikeb Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Anyone who has been watching could/should have seen this coming. The iDevices and Macs have been and are moving more and more into a single integrated environment. A year or so ago the rumor was OS X would eventually become "iOS Desktop" as opposed to "iOS Mobile" for the iDevices with iCloud being the integrating media that pulls it all into a relatively seamless environment.

Given the success of the iPhone and iPad this makes all sorts of market sense for Apple. I have talked to any number of new iPhone and iPad users who are now watning/wishing to trade their PCs for a Mac. An integrated operating environment will inevitably lead to increased Mac sales. cool
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#20660 - 02/16/12 09:11 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: joemikeb]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Anyone who has been watching could/should have seen this coming. The iDevices and Macs have been and are moving more and more into a single integrated environment. A year or so ago the rumor was OS X would eventually become "iOS Desktop" as opposed to "iOS Mobile" for the iDevices with iCloud being the integrating media that pulls it all into a relatively seamless environment.

Given the success of the iPhone and iPad this makes all sorts of market sense for Apple. I have talked to any number of new iPhone and iPad users who are now wanting/wishing to trade their PCs for a Mac. An integrated operating environment will inevitably lead to increased Mac sales. cool

But of course that's the case (without my wishing to diminish your commentary).

I've got no problem with Apple's wanting to increase computer sales; I've been hoping for it since 1984. But at best it's been stalled at the 10-percent market coverage pretty much ever since then. That ain't too shabby, but certainly not what Apple had in mind. But when Microsoft "seconded" the technology, Apple took a bath.

Now perhaps (hoping against hope) assembled multitudes can understand why I liked OS 9 so much that I only reluctantly moved into the age of Lion a few months ago. {sigh} But I'm glad I did. {double sigh}

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#20662 - 02/16/12 10:54 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
All this means is i will definitely skip Lion... and likely get forced into a 10.8 upgrade for my 2010 MBP, eventually.

But since i've been an iTools->MobileMe subscriber for many years now (missed eWorld though), one of my main e-mail addresses is .mac (or .me), and we are basically being forced to go beyond 10.6 by June 30 (at which time MobileMe will reportedly croak). Or so it seems anyway, since MobileMe is morphing into iCloud, which requires Lion or better on the desktop.

Plus i do have a couple of iOS devices... and being able to sync and access e-mail (as well as address books, calendars, reminders, bookmarks, etc., etc.), while mobile is pretty darn handy (and addicting).

For those in my shoes who...
a) use .mac (or .me) as their principal e-dress, and who
b) wish to stick with Snow Leo for as long as possible; then
....here are some kb docs to study:

Naturally anyone getting a new Mac this summer will have to hop on the 10.8 bandwagon... but this notion of forcing folks running Snowy to upgrade in order to maintain their MobileMe->iCloud status is somewhat annoying. [there have been rumors that a 10.6.9 release will pacify us... but i suspect it may omit some coolness to further convince the remaining holdouts.]


Edited by Hal Itosis (02/16/12 11:05 AM)

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#20666 - 02/16/12 01:03 PM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: Hal Itosis]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#20667 - 02/16/12 04:59 PM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...as a card-carrying Luddite, I...

Oh, give me a break. You, a Luddite? The man with a Mac Pro and four Hitachi hard drives? The man each of whose OS X upgrades has invariably been embraced, retrospectively, as the best version of OS X yet? shocked

I don't think so. laugh
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#20670 - 02/16/12 06:34 PM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)

Well then, they don't have to worry about upgrading to 10.8, do they? wink

Something odd about Lion & 10.8 (no, i'm not going to be typing out its entire 4-syllable name, not even mentally... at some point i may go with 'Mounty' probably): these two OS updates mark the first time i have no interest in moving forward. Snowy works, and Lion added nothing essential whatsoever (e.g. Time Machine in 10.5). Plus, i only have Snowy because it came with my 2010 MBP.

All this 'App Store download regimen' and 'Recovery partition rigamarole' with Lion was more of a turn-off than an attraction. So we will see if Apple forces the ones who wish to stay with Snowy into upgrading, by holding hostage our [.mac/.me] e-mail access, starting in July 2012.

I hope not.

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#20672 - 02/16/12 07:08 PM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
Something odd about Lion & 10.8 (no, i'm not going to be typing out its entire 4-syllable name, not even mentally... at some point i may go with 'Mounty' probably): these two OS updates mark the first time i have no interest in moving forward. Snowy works, and Lion added nothing essential whatsoever (e.g. Time Machine in 10.5). Plus, i only have Snowy because it came with my 2010 MBP.

All this 'App Store download regimen' and 'Recovery partition rigamarole' with Lion was more of a turn-off than an attraction. So we will see if Apple forces the ones who wish to stay with Snowy into upgrading, by holding hostage our [.mac/.me] e-mail access, starting in July 2012.

I hope not.

I'm with you 100%, but I don't have to worry about the .mac/.me thing. :YAAAY!!!: cool (You forgot about QuickLook...my impetus to upgrade to Leopard.)

On the other hand, though, updated browser technology and Security Updates may eventually force us to upgrade. frown

The nomenclature process associated with 10.8 seems to have been faulty... A mountain lion is the same thing as a puma, so maybe we can all save ourselves a bunch of typing by just resurrecting the latter.
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#20673 - 02/16/12 11:36 PM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
And then, of course, there's David Pogue's take:
Apple’s Mountain Lion Makes the Mac More Like the iPad

Addendum: Did I forget to mention earlier that I really give a flying fig newton about the thoroughgoing integration of Twitter? tongue

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#20675 - 02/17/12 01:44 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
And then, of course, there's David Pogue's take:
Apple’s Mountain Lion Makes the Mac More Like the iPad

Three notable quotes from Pogue's column (Emphasis added):
  1. [...] Thursday’s announcement: from now on, Apple will update Mac OS X once a year.
  2. Over all, Mountain Lion shows that Apple is continuing to unify its ecosystem — to bring the same apps, interfaces and data to all Apple gadgets. It’s a calculated, evilly smart way to make staying within the Apple family even more desirable, comfortable and useful.
  3. The bigger question is how long it can keep coming up with big cat names. Mac OS X Bobcat? Mac OS X Cougar (Same as Puma & Mountain Lion [and, I just noticed, Panther])? Mac OS X Really Fat Tabby?
All in all, ML is simply the next step in the progression begun by Lion.

Edit: I can't begin to guess how the setup will work, but I can envision a day when Macs, iPhones, and iPads will be sold as "paired" sets. (I wonder whether we'll be able to buy the individual components or whether Apple is on the road to creating a "minimal user" niche, much like the 56k modem/capped bandwidth niche, that it doesn't care to fill?) frown


Edited by artie505 (02/17/12 02:27 AM)
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#20676 - 02/17/12 02:23 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: artie505]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State


Edited by jchuzi (02/17/12 04:15 AM)
Edit Reason: fixed link
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#20677 - 02/17/12 02:33 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
Addendum: Did I forget to mention earlier that I really give a flying fig newton about the thoroughgoing integration of Twitter? :P

At 133 characters, a damn near perfect tweet!
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#20678 - 02/17/12 02:34 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09

Your first link is dead, Jon; your second leads to news, but old-hat news.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#20679 - 02/17/12 02:36 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

You might want to edit your post to include the URL for your first link, Jon.
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#20680 - 02/17/12 02:40 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
The first link is incomplete rather than dead, although the result is the same. Your comment about the second link leading to 'old-hat' news depends to a large extent on how early you get up in the morning, in which time zone you happen to be, or on the quality of your clairvoyance... smirk Perhaps it's time for a cup of coffee all around... tongue
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#20682 - 02/17/12 02:49 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
The first link is incomplete rather than dead, although the result is the same. Your comment about the second link leading to 'old-hat' news depends to a large extent on how early you get up in the morning, in which time zone you happen to be, or on the quality of your clairvoyance... smirk Perhaps it's time for a cup of coffee all around... tongue

By "dead," I meant that it doesn't lead to where it's supposed to lead. Having made the same mistake myself...more than once, I actually realized that it was incomplete. (I plead guilty to poor choice of words.)

By "old-hat" I meant not-unexpected behavior, regardless of the particulars.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#20683 - 02/17/12 02:54 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

As long as we're taking a look at Mountain Lion, this account by John Gruber of the radically different way Apple introduced the next version of OS X makes for a nice introduction to what we might think of as Apple After Jobs: Daring Fireball: Mountain Lion.

Originally Posted By: John Gruber
Why not hold an event to announce Mountain Lion — or make the announcement on apple.com before talking to us?

That’s when Schiller tells me they’re doing some things differently now.

I wonder immediately about that “now”. I don’t press, because I find the question that immediately sprang to mind uncomfortable.

And while we're at it, some perspective from Horace Dediu on why the newest version of OS X will be so tightly integrated with iOS: Apple sold more iOS devices in 2011 than all the Macs sold...in 28 years.
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#20684 - 02/17/12 04:16 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: dkmarsh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

You might want to edit your post to include the URL for your first link, Jon.
Done.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#20685 - 02/17/12 05:00 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: jchuzi]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Perhaps this is a clue as to the direction we're moving: Apple sold more iOS devices in 2011 than Macs in 28 years.
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27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#20686 - 02/17/12 05:25 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Quote:
Addendum: Did I forget to mention earlier that I really give a flying fig newton about the thoroughgoing integration of Twitter? :P

At 133 characters, a damn near perfect tweet!

Oooh, you (d)evil you! smirk wink

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#20690 - 02/17/12 10:30 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: grelber]
roger Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Vermont
as others have said, there are a lot of Windows users with iPhones and iPads (and iPods) and the closer that a mac and the portable devices come, the more that people are likely to make the switch.

brilliant business move, I would say. and that's coming from someone who won't be able to run 10.8.
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stuff I'm interested in
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#20694 - 02/18/12 02:03 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: roger]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> "brilliant business move"

I prefer Pogue's "evilly smart."

Edit: Interesting choice of words..."evil;" he could have said much the same thing in any number of ways that wouldn't risk arousing Apple's ire, or...
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#20707 - 02/18/12 08:37 AM Re: Mountain Lion, the next cat [Re: roger]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: roger
brilliant business move

Originally Posted By: artie505
I prefer Pogue's "evilly smart."

I was gonna say... 'brilliant business move' may always be something great for the company, but not necessarily the consumer. [i.e., us.]

I'm starting to see Apple software lose features and/or accumulate bugs... all because the focus seems to be on enhancing and integrating "The App Store" into everything.

E.g., the music app in iOS 5 (when run on an iPad) is so faulty, i'm convinced that not a single engineer there ever actually uses the program in their personal lives. [i.e., after 5pm they never touch it again until 9am... and even then, it's only to do what the marketing team tells them: “hey, add a big button for the App Store right where users can't avoid clicking on it.” Meanwhile, the Playlist feature is a complete and utter disaster.]

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