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Re: Security Update MailWatch
joemikeb #20494 02/03/12 11:06 PM
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You're suggesting that Apple deliberately broke Rosetta and screwed all those still relying on it without broadcasting either the intention or the fact and in complete contradiction of its retention of Rosetta in Snow Leopard?

I'll be shocked if it's true!


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
joemikeb #20496 02/04/12 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
....I can safely say, the omission of Rosetta was clearly not an oversight. Apple broadcast their intentions to drop Rosetta when it became an optional install in Snow Leopard.

...and users who were listening should have begun seeking alternatives.

Really? And how was the average user, without any powers to divine intent from a process, supposed to know that?

Certainly a person who has "designed, coded, and tested hundreds of thousands of lines of code" is able to divine such intent, but no one should expect that of the average user.

If it was Apple's intent that, in the future they would write an upgrade that would remove Rosetta from Snow Leopard, they should have said exactly that AND they should have said: "We'll let you know when we're about to do it."


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
It has been Apple's practice, from their very beginnings to drop support for obsolete hardware and software technologies as they add support for newer hardware and software technologies.

But those bridging technologies are never intended to be permanent and will be dropped usually after a couple of OS X upgrades.

That's not news and I'm not sure why you thought it should be stated. However, if what you have said is true (the omission of Rosetta was clearly not an oversight) then the process was underhanded and immoral. The "Software Update..." function presents a dialogue box that says:

Security Update 2012-001 is recommended for all users and improves the security of Mac OS X.

Apple could just as easily have added a caution: "By the way, if you install this update, you will no longer have Rosetta."

Not adding the caution....reiterate underhanded and immoral.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
If you are looking for a platform that provides support for code going all the way back to the dark ages of personal computing, Dell will be more than happy to accommodate you.

Condescension is not necessary. We've been through this before. My daughter is in her last year of university (in another city) with Snow Leopard and Rosetta working just fine. I am not about to start introducing new software, with the possibility of the problems that can accompany it, when she needs to be focussed on her studies.

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 12:02 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
ryck #20497 02/04/12 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Why wouldn't it be possible? Rosetta isn't installed automatically, but has to be chosen when Slow Leopard is installed. And Lion does not come with Rosetta.

I wasn't actually taking issue with that suggestion (though I don't agree with you that it's possible that Apple software engineers, working on a Security Update with, by my count, five patches which address issues that apply only to Snow Leopard, would somehow lose all awareness of context); I was only seeking clarification that that's what you meant.

It wasn't clear to me how you got from

Quote:
Name and Information

OSX Lion v10.7.3 and Security Update 2012-001

Released for

Mac OS X v10.6.8, OS X Lion v10.7 to v10.7.2

to

Quote:
Perhaps Apple didn't write code that broke Rosetta.


With 20/20 hindsight, we can clearly see from Douglas's experience that Apple did write code that broke Rosetta.



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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20498 02/04/12 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The only MS app I run is Office Excel X, which has had no trouble opening the two files for which I use it (although I haven't tried changing and saving yet).

Have you tried Douglas's linked solution?
I'm downloading it as I write this. However, it is downloading at speeds reminiscent of dialup connections. I'll post back after I install it.


Jon

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20499 02/04/12 12:15 AM
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Fascinating! The Apple Support document HT5130 ("About the security content of OS X Lion v10.7.3 and Security Update 2012-001"), which not 20 minutes ago had last been updated Feb. 1, 2012, and contained three ImageIO patches—one targeted only for Snow Leopard—now reads "Last Modified: February 03, 2012," and contains only two ImageIO patches, both Lion-only.

No "2012-001 v1.1" on Support Downloads yet, though.

Last edited by dkmarsh; 02/04/12 10:47 AM. Reason: corrected document #


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Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20502 02/04/12 01:11 AM
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Douglas Online OP
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Security Update 2012-001 v 1.1 is only on Software Update as of this time.

I solved my problem my coping the unaffected folder from my clone HD to my regular boot HD and that fixed the problem with Quicken and Mailwatch.

I've since installed Security Update 2012-001 v 1.1 from Software Update and I can report that both Quicken and MailWatch are still operating correctly.

BTW I, too, would be extremely surprised if Apple screwed up Rosetta intentionally. What would the upside be, a few more sales of Lyon? Hardly worth the bad publicity and howling by long time Apple fans.

Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20503 02/04/12 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
It wasn't clear to me how you got from

Quote:
Name and Information

OSX Lion v10.7.3 and Security Update 2012-001

Released for

Mac OS X v10.6.8, OS X Lion v10.7 to v10.7.2

to

[quote]Perhaps Apple didn't write code that broke Rosetta.

Perhaps not clearly written on my part, but easily clarified. I meant that perhaps it wasn't poorly written code causing a poorly performing Rosetta, but rather a failure to include Rosetta at all.

That's what I meant in the next sentence: "Maybe, in their haste to get a Lion update out and combine it with Snow Leopard, Apple has completely missed the fact that SL has the Rosetta component and left it out."

Subsequently, that's also what joemikeb suggests: "....the omission of Rosetta was clearly not an oversight"

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 01:45 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
Douglas #20505 02/04/12 02:36 AM
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Also just installed the new update (from MacFixIt Apple fixes Rosetta problems with new security update) and can now print in Quicken 2007

Re: Security Update MailWatch
ryck #20506 02/04/12 02:47 AM
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I guess I'm not understanding the whole discussion of the omission of Rosetta. If one hadn't previously installed Rosetta, one wouldn't be running any PPC apps, and therefore nothing would be broken by this update. Whatever the update did, it didn't omit Rosetta. It broke Rosetta, i.e. altered existing code in a way which rendered Rosetta dysfunctional.

The fact that the two approaches to dealing with this problematic update which seem to have been successful for many folks—either reinstalling Rosetta, or replacing ImageIO.Framework on the affected machine with a copy of the pre-update ImageIO.Framework—strongly suggests that the cause of the problem was one or more of the three ImageIO patches included in the original update. (In the original update, all three ImageIO patches applied to OS X 10.6.8.)

The fact that Apple has replaced that version of the update with a new one containing no ImageIO patches for OS X 10.6.8 confirms it, as far as I'm concerned. Whether Apple simply failed to test the original update on any configurations which included PPC apps running on Rosetta, or cynically "tested the waters" to see how feasible it might be, from a political standpoint, to abandon Rosetta support (not very feasible at present, it appears!), is a question the answer to which probably depends on one's particular predisposition towards Apple.

I personally believe they just didn't test it on Rosetta configurations. They may not even have any in-house. As always, their desire to make everybody current outweighs their interest in supporting those who aren't. I seriously doubt they "deliberately broke Rosetta and screwed all those still relying on it without broadcasting either the intention or the fact," to crib artie's nice turn of phrase.



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Re: Security Update MailWatch
MarkG #20507 02/04/12 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: MarkG
Also just installed the new update (from MacFixIt Apple fixes Rosetta problems with new security update) and can now print in Quicken 2007

The updated update is now available at Security Update 2012-001 (Snow Leopard), but note that although the page is still headed "Security Update 2012-001 (Snow Leopard)," the right-side info box states "Version: 2012-001 v.1.1."


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20508 02/04/12 07:59 AM
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Chances are that you're correct...that Apple simply neglected to test the update on a Rosetta reliant OS X configuration, but you've missed the point I think ryck was trying to make (albeit not terribly clearly)...that Apple simply forgot that Rosetta exists. (As I mentioned above, they forgot about the Safari update that came between OS X 10.6.8 and 10.6.8 v1.1.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
ryck #20509 02/04/12 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: ryck
That's what I meant in the next sentence: "Maybe, in their haste to get a Lion update out and combine it with Snow Leopard, Apple has completely missed the fact that SL has the Rosetta component and left it out."

Subsequently, that's also what joemikeb suggests: "....the omission of Rosetta was clearly not an oversight" (Emphasis added)

Aren't the two underlined suggestions contradictory rather than supportive of each other?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20510 02/04/12 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

I guess I'm not understanding the whole discussion of the omission of Rosetta.

Maybe it's because you're making my simple-minded supposition too complicated.

I observed a string of posts that seemed to indicate that Rosetta had been affected by the way the recent update was written. I just put forth the idea that maybe it wasn't writing...that maybe Apple just forgot.

Originally Posted By: ryck
Perhaps Apple didn't write code that broke Rosetta. Maybe, in their haste to get a Lion update out and combine it with Snow Leopard, Apple has completely missed the fact that SL has the Rosetta component and left it out.

When you asked if that what I actually meant, I confirmed and added the caveat that I have less technical understanding than others here.

Originally Posted By: ryck
I'm not a person who has ever written code, so I am at a bit of a disadvantage, but it doesn't make my query unreasonable. It seems to me that a team focussed on Lion, incorporating the unsupported Snow Leopard that has Rosetta as an add-on, could drop the Rosetta ball. I'm sure that stranger things have happened.

artie505 understood what I meant.

Originally Posted By: artie505
ryck's suggestion is not at all off-the-wall; it's given context by Apple's having overlooked the Safari regression caused by the OS X 10.6.8 v1.1 Combo Updater.

You disagreed with my supposition....

Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
I wasn't actually taking issue with that suggestion (though I don't agree with you that it's possible that Apple software engineers, working on a Security Update with, by my count, five patches which address issues that apply only to Snow Leopard, would somehow lose all awareness of context); I was only seeking clarification that that's what you meant.

....but asked for further clarification, which I gave.

Originally Posted By: ryck
Perhaps not clearly written on my part, but easily clarified. I meant that perhaps it wasn't poorly written code causing a poorly performing Rosetta, but rather a failure to include Rosetta at all.

That's what I meant in the next sentence: "Maybe, in their haste to get a Lion update out and combine it with Snow Leopard, Apple has completely missed the fact that SL has the Rosetta component and left it out."

You have provided data showing why my idea was likely not correct and I accept your conclusions, although I don't understand them (I wouldn't know a Framework IO if you dropped it on my foot).

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 08:38 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20511 02/04/12 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: ryck
That's what I meant in the next sentence: "Maybe, in their haste to get a Lion update out and combine it with Snow Leopard, Apple has completely missed the fact that SL has the Rosetta component and left it out."

Subsequently, that's also what joemikeb suggests: "....the omission of Rosetta was clearly not an oversight" (Emphasis added)

Aren't the two underlined suggestions contradictory rather than supportive of each other?

Yes...mea culpa....chalk it up to poor editing.


ryck

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20512 02/04/12 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
The updated update is now available at Security Update 2012-001 (Snow Leopard), but note that although the page is still headed "Security Update 2012-001 (Snow Leopard)," the right-side info box states "Version: 2012-001 v.1.1."

What am I missing? I've just been to that page but don't see any reference anywhere to a V1.1 Even when I went to the link on that page, which takes me to a box with descriptive columns, I don't see any reference to V1.1....and the Release Dates all say Feb 1, 2012

I have gone there through two methods. Just pasting your link and also by using "Software Update..." under the black apple.

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 08:39 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
ryck #20513 02/04/12 08:45 AM
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Look immediately below the "Download" button here (Click me). (Oops... I didn't notice the incorrect date.)

I installed the original update, and this evening Software Update told me I needed a new one, but since I installed the d/l from the linked page SU tells me that I'm up to date.


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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20514 02/04/12 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
Look immediately below the "Download" button here (Click me).

I've just followed that link but still no indication that the update is a V1.1

As I don't know how to post a screenshot I'll just provide what I see under the Download button:

Version: 2012-001
Post Date: February 01, 2012
Download ID: DL1489
Licence: Update
File Size: 192.73 MB
System Requirements
Mac OS v10.6.8

Question: Is it possible that my system or Safari are pulling up dated pages? If so, what's the fix? Cache clearing?

Gotta hit the sack. Will check back in the morning.

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 08:56 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
ryck #20515 02/04/12 09:07 AM
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Bizarre! Maybe Probably a cache thing; try command-option-E.

In the meantime, though.

Last edited by artie505; 02/04/12 10:06 AM.

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20517 02/04/12 10:23 AM
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I just installed v 1.1 via Software Update and all is well. I had decided to wait for Apple to issue a patch rather than try the one that I referred to in my previous post, figuring that Apple should (?) be more reliable than a third party. Maybe I'm naive? tongue Anyway, everything PPC is working.


Jon

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Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20518 02/04/12 10:50 AM
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Doesn't seem to be a cache issue. I see what ryck sees, and I had already tried emptying Safari's cache prior to reading your last post. Either Apple is serving up different pages in different circumstances (depending on one's hardware, or geographic location, or some other variable), or the page you screen-captured has been unrevised again...



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Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20519 02/04/12 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Doesn't seem to be a cache issue. I see what ryck sees, and I had already tried emptying Safari's cache prior to reading your last post. Either Apple is serving up different pages in different circumstances (depending on one's hardware, or geographic location, or some other variable), or the page you screen-captured has been unrevised again...

Got me beat!

I just followed my link and the "Security Update 2012-001 (Snow Leopard)" link here, and both times I was taken to a page that showed "Version: 2012-001 v.1.1."

Edit: Could this oddity possibly be related to the FTM favicon's inexplicable failure to update immediately for some people when it reverted/was updated during the last UBB.threads update process? (If so, it's kinda odd that I got immediate results in both instances.)

Edit 2: I'm seeing the v1.1 thing when I click on the link to the Server update, too.

Last edited by artie505; 02/04/12 11:18 AM.

The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20520 02/04/12 11:23 AM
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Apparently, some are enjoying success by using RosettaFix


Harv
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Re: Security Update MailWatch
Pendragon #20521 02/04/12 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pendragon
Apparently, some are enjoying success by using RosettaFix

That's already been linked above, Harv, but to paraphrase Jon, why rely on a 3rd party's guess fix when Apple has issued a presumably on-the-mark fix.

Even if you can't link to v1.1, Software Update is delivering it...maybe.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
artie505 #20522 02/04/12 12:22 PM
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Oops. Sorry I missed that.


Harv
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Security Update MailWatch
dkmarsh #20523 02/04/12 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Either Apple is serving up different pages in different circumstances (depending on one's hardware, or geographic location, or some other variable), or the page you screen-captured has been unrevised again...

One of those could be the answer. I know that, when Douglas started the thread, I still did not have notification that there was a security update (I checked when the issue was posted). Geographically, I'm not too far north of him but there is a border between us. Maybe it's sitting in Cyber Customs laugh

Last edited by ryck; 02/04/12 04:23 PM. Reason: Spelling

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