An open community 
of Macintosh users,
for Macintosh users.

FineTunedMac Dashboard widget now available! Download Here

Topic Options
#9996 - 05/18/10 02:27 PM What is "custom access"?
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I noticed that many folders in /Library (for example, Application Support) give Read & Write privileges to Admin (my account is not listed) but it also says, "You have custom access". This also happens with (for example) ~/Library although my account is listed with Read & Write privileges there. As an experiment, I added my account under Sharing and Permissions, gave myself Read & Write privileges, but it still says "You have custom access". I changed this back in case I did something that isn't kosher.

What does "custom access" mean? I tried Googling it and couldn't come up with a definition.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#10000 - 05/18/10 07:59 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: jchuzi]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Who knows what it means [?] ...there is no exact definition.

It's all part of Apple's attempt to shield users from Unix permissions (which were further convoluted by ACLs since Leopard... well, Tiger really).

So, the answer lies on the command line... because I'll bet there are probably thousands of different possible combinations which Finder will simply display as being "custom". [ACLs actually raise that number into the tens-of-thousands, but some permutations are far less likely than others.]

List some of those items you named using:

ls -led
/path/to/item

...and that's the only way to see what's actually going on.

Or, maybe a GUI tool like BatChmod or Sandbox might work. [i'm not sure if BatChmod shows ACLs though.]

Top
#10005 - 05/19/10 03:17 AM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: Hal Itosis]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
ls -led /Library/Application\ Support
drwxrwxr-x 38 root admin 1292 Mar 4 13:41 /Library/Application Support


ls -led /Library/Application\ Support/Adobe

drwxrwxr-x 50 root admin 1700 Nov 26 07:49 /Library/Application Support/Adobe


Edited by jchuzi (05/19/10 03:18 AM)
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#10008 - 05/19/10 11:14 AM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: jchuzi]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
custom means anything beyond the basic bits. sticky bit for example would cause custom access.
there are 16 bits in all. most people are only aware of the basic 9 and the directory flag

I assume ACLs will also trigger this.
_________________________
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department

Top
#10011 - 05/19/10 12:16 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: Virtual1]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Thanks, V1. This stuff is over my head. Could you explain it in plain English? confused
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#10012 - 05/19/10 01:06 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: jchuzi]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
ls -led /Library/Application\ Support
drwxrwxr-x 38 root admin 1292 Mar 4 13:41 /Library/Application Support


ls -led /Library/Application\ Support/Adobe

drwxrwxr-x 50 root admin 1700 Nov 26 07:49 /Library/Application Support/Adobe

Okay, i've got 10.6.3 now, and when i look at those two with Finder, i see no "custom" access:

system Read & Write
admin Read & Write
everyone Read only

Oh wait, i see it now... above it says "You have custom access" -- Hmmm.

I guess they (Apple) mean i don't **own** the item, therefore my access is via some other route.
[in this case, admin membership allows me to write (and anyone can read).]


LATE EDIT:

But it's not very consistent. Similar folders that i don't own say something different. The /Applications folder has virtually identical (POSIX) perms...

ls -led /Applications /Library/Application\ Support
drwxrwxr-x+ 53 root admin 1802 May 12 13:17 /Applications
 0: group:everyone deny delete
drwxrwxr-x 31 root admin 1054 May 5 22:22 /Library/Application Support

...but its info window says: "You can read and write"

Actually, as i play around a bit (including using the Inspector via command-option-i), sometimes the info window for that /Library/Application Support folder also says "You can read and write" instead.

Bah —when it comes to permissions, etc., — i don't rely on (or trust in) Finder's info windows.


Edited by Hal Itosis (05/19/10 03:18 PM)

Top
#10019 - 05/20/10 03:04 AM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: Hal Itosis]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
Actually, as i play around a bit (including using the Inspector via command-option-i), sometimes the info window for that /Library/Application Support folder also says "You can read and write" instead.

For me, languishing here in 10.5.8, the Inspector seems to have a bug in this regard: if the first file or folder I look at says, "You have custom access," then every subsequent file or folder I look at says the same thing. In fact, whatever the permissions "caption" is for the first item examined, that's what I see for every subsequent item.

So, for instance, if I select /System and type Command-Option-i, I see "You can only read." If I now navigate my way to ~Library/Scripts/colored_path.scpt (the script I wrote to construct a UBB.threads color-formatted pathname string from a Finder selection), I still see "You can only read!"

The permissions "table" below the caption changes to reflect the actual permissions, but the caption itself is stuck. Does anyone else see this behavior in 10.5.8 (or any other OS version, for that matter)?
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

Top
#10033 - 05/20/10 12:26 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: dkmarsh]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
For me, languishing here in 10.5.8, the Inspector seems to have a bug in this regard: if the first file or folder I look at says, "You have custom access," then every subsequent file or folder I look at says the same thing. In fact, whatever the permissions "caption" is for the first item examined, that's what I see for every subsequent item.

<snip>

The permissions "table" below the caption changes to reflect the actual permissions, but the caption itself is stuck. Does anyone else see this behavior in 10.5.8 (or any other OS version, for that matter)?

Yes, absolutely true: the Inspector has long been buggy in that regard... since 10.5.0 at least (perhaps earlier).

But i put that part in parens because i was also able to observe the ambiguity via *regular* info windows. Depending on how i went about it (sorry, i don't recall any "reproducible" details), sometimes the info window for /Library/Application Support/ said one thing, and sometimes another.

Perhaps Jon can confirm same?

[bugginess aside, i still maintain that "custom access" doesn't convey any specific useful info.]

Top
#10035 - 05/20/10 02:29 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: Hal Itosis]
jchuzi Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I can confirm your observation, Hal, but perhaps I didn't do it the same way as you. I opened the hard drive and went to /Library/Application support. Then, I did a Get Info in three ways:

1. Pressed Command-I.
2. Went to File > Get Info.
3. Clicked the Get Info icon in the HD window.

In each case, the Get Info window said "you have custom access".

However, when I Control-clicked that folder and selected Get Info from the contextual menu, the GI window said "You can read and write" instead of "you have custom access". For reasons that escape me, I then got the "you can read and write" message when I repeated 1 - 3. Go figure. confused

ADDENDUM: I tried the above with /Library/Application Support/Adobe and the "custom access" remained even after I repeated all those steps.


Edited by jchuzi (05/20/10 03:49 PM)
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

Top
#10036 - 05/20/10 03:45 PM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: Hal Itosis]
joemikeb Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I checked the home folder on all three Macs here, all running OS X 10.6.3, and the same folders are marked as "custom access" in all of them. According to FileXaminer most of those have privileges of 700 and a couple have 755.

However, when I look at the ACL permissions using TinkerTool System on one of the folders with POSIX permissions of 700 I find there is an ACL in effect that denies everyone access to the folder, all levels, and is labeled custom. Looking at the "Effective Permissions" for my user account, again using TinkerTool System, I find that even though I have POSIX read, write, execute privileges for the folder, I do not have Delete privileges for the folder itself and neither can I change the owner of that folder. The folder(s) in question are those required by OS X to be in the user's home folder such as ~/Library. If you haven't tried it, Marcel Bresink's TinkerTool System 2 is chock full of obscure but useful stuff like this.

V1, Hal, or DK has already mentioned ACLs as a possibility for the "custom access" (I'm too lazy to go back and look smirk ) but TinkerTool System confirms their opinion. Get Info focuses on the POSIX permissions and the "custom access" flag is simply a grossly simplified way of flagging the fact that no matter what the POSIX permissions are there is an ACL that may change the effective permissions. Frankly, given the possibilities offered by ACLs that is not surprising.
_________________________
joemikeb • moderator

Top
#19987 - 01/06/12 05:51 AM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: joemikeb]
wmike1503 Offline


Registered: 01/06/12
Yet another example of the Mac OS X problems (been using Mac for a year now - falls well short of it's press - no more reliable than Windows).

Aside from Spotlight being unable to search my NAS devices - I now have custom access suddenly appearing all over my folders - including my NAS.

Most of the time my (admin) account doesn't show up in the info window at all - bizarre.

Guess I stuck with it for now. Suffice to say the Mac's file handling and directory capabilities fell well short of those found on any windows machine.

A very disappointed new user of Macs, certainly not a convert.

Mike


Edited by wmike1503 (01/06/12 05:52 AM)

Top
#19998 - 01/06/12 11:23 AM Re: What is "custom access"? [Re: wmike1503]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: wmike1503
Yet another example of the Mac OS X problems (been using Mac for a year now - falls well short of it's press - no more reliable than Windows).

Aside from Spotlight being unable to search my NAS devices - I now have custom access suddenly appearing all over my folders - including my NAS.

Excluding the Spotlight issue (save that for another thread), what exactly is the 'problem'?

As i alluded above —even when Finder Get Info windows behave properly —they (by design) do not convey the full status of objects (e.g., execute bits, ACLs and other fancy permissions info aren't specifically detailed). To see the full story, use Terminal or one of the other utilities above.


Originally Posted By: wmike1503
Most of the time my (admin) account doesn't show up in the info window at all - bizarre.

Guess I stuck with it for now. Suffice to say the Mac's file handling and directory capabilities fell well short of those found on any windows machine.

A very disappointed new user of Macs, certainly not a convert.

>> Most of the time my (admin) account doesn't show up in the info window at all - bizarre.<<

That's not necessarily a problem... in fact it may even be 100% correct, but you didn't mention *where* those items are. More info needed to determine whether 'bizarre' is an appropriate adjective or not. And if it turns out to be bizarre, there is probably a way to normalize matters... but again, more specific info is needed.

Top

Moderator:  alternaut, dkmarsh, joemikeb