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#19241 - 11/17/11 04:09 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: Hal Itosis]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
(a) A clone is not an installer.

And Grieber would be happy, I'm sure to clone, if he had an external HD. But maybe not, since some on this thread warn against the generally reliability of clones.

He wants the Lion installer that he would have been able to get by updating Snowy -- an installer he could put on a disk and that in the past he would got with any new Mac he bought. But now he is not able to have that because he bought a shiny new Mac with Lion preinstalled!!. Now ain't that crummy .. he says.

(b) Well, yes it is.

This is all about a guy who has no broadband and no ability to clone. But in the old days, he got an installer on a disk when he bought a new Mac. And now he doesn't. And he feels deprived. Well, I think he's got a decent case. But the times are always changing - and when they do there's always some who get screwed.

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#19243 - 11/17/11 06:45 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: RHV]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
You both will have more luck at MacRumors. Those forums thrive on stuff like this. [you'll get lots of "backup" from the Windows trolls, although a few others may scoff at the 'no-broadband' defense.]

Even i don't like the idea of a 3-4 hour download (with my lower-tier DSL), but i could sleep or go ride my horse and buggy to the general store while that's going on.

Yes, (live) clones are potentially problematic... but this seems to be a special case where choices are few.

Originally Posted By: RHV
a) A clone is not an installer.

Try again. A bootable clone plus a Time Machine backup is BETTER than an "installer".

One could restore the most recently updated/stable OS version... plus the latest docs and/or apps as well, if desired. Let's not parse words so thinly. [a mere "installer" isn't the only objective worthy of consideration.]



Edited by Hal Itosis (11/17/11 06:52 PM)

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#19248 - 11/18/11 03:59 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: grelber
From the descriptions of cloning given early on in this thread, the necessity of acquiring additional software (if not skills) and the fact that Pogue mentions it nowhere in his manual (as far as I can tell so far, because it's not indexed), I suspect that it isn't either easy or comical.


My copy is indexed (extensively so), pages 885-909.

From the colophon:
"The author composed the index, entry by entry, using a highly tweaked FileMaker database and a clever Perl script that converted FileMaker's output into a fully formatted index."

Perhaps Sir Grelber just hasn't gotten that far (yet).

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#19255 - 11/18/11 06:48 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: Pendragon]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Pendragon
Originally Posted By: grelber
From the descriptions of cloning given early on in this thread, the necessity of acquiring additional software (if not skills) and the fact that Pogue mentions it nowhere in his manual (as far as I can tell so far, because it's not indexed), I suspect that it isn't either easy or comical.

My copy is indexed (extensively so), pages 885-909.
...
Perhaps Sir Grelber just hasn't gotten that far (yet).

Ah yes ...
My copy is exactly so indexed. However, the referent to "it" in "it's not indexed" is "cloning" (not "manual"), as is the first instance of "it" in that main clause.
Ergo, we're on the same page(s).

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#19258 - 11/18/11 07:40 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
Pendragon Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Oh whew! I couldn't divine how you missed (or mist) it.
_________________________
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27" i7 iMac (10.13.6), iPhone Xs Max (12.1)

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#19261 - 11/18/11 11:19 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: grelber
My copy is exactly so indexed. However, the referent to "it" in "it's not indexed" is "cloning" (not "manual"), as is the first instance of "it" in that main clause.
Ergo, we're on the same page(s).

FWIW, the word 'clone' seems to be missing from Apple's lexicon as well. But that doesn't mean there isn't a functional equivalent. I suggest you check Pogue's index for the word "restore"... especially in the context of Disk Utility and its Restore tab. [i.e., doing a 'clone' with Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper and doing a 'restore' using Apple's Disk Utility are fundamentally the same operation. SD and CCC do offer a few options, which make them more attractive in certain situations.]

BTW, i think Apple's decision to favor the word 'restore' over the more universally accepted term 'clone' is unfortunate. I feel it's a poor alternative, and it even confused (misled) me at first. Albeit... a clone (backup) can be used to "restore" some disk to a previous state (e.g., as we use it with Time Machine, when restoring from a backup). But it seems strange to use the word 'restore' in the context of an initial copying procedure.

--

page 436 perhaps?


Edited by Hal Itosis (11/18/11 11:47 AM)

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#19287 - 11/19/11 11:55 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Originally Posted By: artie505
[You're] speaking out of context, V1 ... It is impossible in grelber's instance, because he did not purchase Lion from the App Store, rather he got it installed on his new iMac, and, further, he's stuck behind a 5Kbps dial-up Internet connection.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but here's the download math at 5KB/sec:
1MB = 200 sec = 3.33 min; 1GB = 200,000 sec = 55 hr 33 min.

I've previously posted that it would take you a tad longer than 9 1/4 days to d/l Lion.
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#19288 - 11/20/11 12:25 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I know. A tad scary. shocked
Apparently some didn't note your point, so I thought I'd add to it.
Hal Itosis is right: This thread's gotten way too long (especially for history to be a teacher). tongue wink

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#19289 - 11/20/11 01:20 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
I know. A tad scary. shocked
Apparently some didn't note your point, so I thought I'd add to it.
Hal Itosis is right: This thread's gotten way too long (especially for history to be a teacher). tongue wink

And beyond that, it's lost direction.
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#19290 - 11/20/11 01:24 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: ben1975]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ben1975
I used this tutorial but i can't seem to download it again? I already installed Lion, and the option is no longer available in the Mac App Store to download Lion again?

I think both that it is and that the technique has been discussed, but somebody else will have to provide a link.
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#19306 - 11/21/11 11:48 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
cyn Online

Administrator

Registered: 08/03/09
I moved a branch of replies to a separate thread: Spotlight
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#19853 - 12/28/11 11:50 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Following is Pogue's last word (of 2011) on the subject in today's New York Times:

MAC APP STORE Apple has decided that the DVD is dead. The future of video-watching and software-downloading, it thinks, is the Internet.
To that end, it has created the Mac App Store, so that we can buy our computer programs the same way we buy iPhone apps — by downloading.
The idea has some overwhelming advantages, at least if you have a fast Internet connection. You don’t worry about viruses or spyware. The installation is instantaneous; you’re not even asked for your Mac password. You never have to install patches or updated versions; the version you’re downloading is always the latest. You never have to hunt for the original installation disks; the App Store is a storage locker for everything you’ve ever bought, and it’s available from any machine.
The Mac App Store makes the old methods of software distribution look as antiquated as eight-track tapes and carbon paper.

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#19857 - 12/29/11 12:33 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Following is Pogue's last word (of 2011) on the subject in today's New York Times:

MAC APP STORE Apple has decided that the DVD is dead. The future of video-watching and software-downloading, it thinks, is the Internet.
To that end, it has created the Mac App Store, so that we can buy our computer programs the same way we buy iPhone apps — by downloading.
The idea has some overwhelming advantages, at least if you have a fast Internet connection. You don’t worry about viruses or spyware. The installation is instantaneous; you’re not even asked for your Mac password. You never have to install patches or updated versions; the version you’re downloading is always the latest. You never have to hunt for the original installation disks; the App Store is a storage locker for everything you’ve ever bought, and it’s available from any machine.
The Mac App Store makes the old methods of software distribution look as antiquated as eight-track tapes and carbon paper.

Much as I hate it, I can't honestly say that I disagree with the concept, but the advance of technology is dependent on the availability of the new to the displaced users of the old, and when such is not the case, as with people who live in areas in which broadband is just plain 100% unavailable (or prohibitively expensive with little hope of getting cheaper), the concept loses coherence, and its adherents write off a portion of the world as beneath their notice. (And that is why Pogue's "eight-track tapes and carbon paper" analogy is faulty.) frown
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#19858 - 12/29/11 06:30 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: artie505]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: artie505
Much as I hate it, I can't honestly say that I disagree with the concept, but the advance of technology is dependent on the availability of the new to the displaced users of the old, and when such is not the case, as with people who live in areas in which broadband is just plain 100% unavailable (or prohibitively expensive with little hope of getting cheaper), the concept loses coherence, and its adherents write off a portion of the world as beneath their notice. (And that is why Pogue's "eight-track tapes and carbon paper" analogy is faulty.) frown

Yowzah!* tongue laugh

(* Go here if you're too young to recollect this word.}

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#19860 - 12/29/11 08:30 AM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Much as I hate it, I can't honestly say that I disagree with the concept, but the advance of technology is dependent on the availability of the new to the displaced users of the old, and when such is not the case, as with people who live in areas in which broadband is just plain 100% unavailable (or prohibitively expensive with little hope of getting cheaper), the concept loses coherence.... frown

In Canada we'll certainly find the ISPs agreeing with the concept. They've been salivating at the idea of charging extra for downloads over a threshold they set, so they''l love the idea that viewers have no choice in getting movies except to download through them.


Edited by ryck (12/29/11 08:33 AM)
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#19866 - 12/29/11 09:35 PM Re: How to create bootable back-up disk for OS X Lion? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Oops! I plumb forgot about folks who are hobbled by capped bandwidth this time around; thanks for bringing them back into the mix.
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