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#18551 - 10/18/11 10:16 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
Originally Posted By: artie505
Ran your command:

Code:
Last login: Sun Oct 16 20:05:03 on ttys000
Artie-s-Computer-4:~ artie$ ~/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist
-bash: /Users/artie/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist: Permission denied
Artie-s-Computer-4:~ artie$ 

What, if anything, does "Permission denied" mean as respects Bensheim's upset?

I don't understand your question " as respects Bensheim's upset? " ???

Anyway, you did not run my command (only part of it).
You got a "permission denied" error because the cookie file itself is not executable.

What I meant was did the "Permission denied" put Bensheim's fears to rest, but since it's the result of having run an incorrect command...

Oops... I saw the prompt and didn't look to the left.

Code:
Last login: Tue Oct 18 13:43:47 on ttys000
Artie-s-Computer-4:~ artie$ grep $LOGNAME ~/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist
		<string>Assorted login names and e-mail addresses</string>
Artie-s-Computer-4:~ artie$ 
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18552 - 10/18/11 10:26 AM ooops [Re: Hal Itosis]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
@Bensheim: see if this Terminal command produces any useful output:
grep $LOGNAME ~/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist

DEAR FOLKS:

Actually, that command is only gonna work if your e-mail and your shortname are the same. [which i have done for uniformity's sake since day one.]

So here's the deal if your situation is different...
as an example, let's say your e-mail address is:

groucho@marx.com

In that case (if your shortname isn't also groucho... then), the proper Terminal command would be:

grep -i
groucho ~/Library/Cookies/Cookies.plist




Edited by Hal Itosis (10/18/11 10:30 AM)
Edit Reason: added -i to make it case-insensitive

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#18553 - 10/18/11 10:45 AM Re: ooops [Re: Hal Itosis]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Thanks to Hal and his withering sarcasm, and thanks to F/book and their proof of spying on everyone's computers, I have now deleted the Yahoo account with which I used to register with them.

I have also gone into a gmail account and deleted all the contacts because I am in no doubt that F/book will have that account too. This is because all the relatives I was so naively trying to "friend" were in there.

I am the last person on earth who should have gone to F/book. I should have obeyed my instincts which are usually sound, in telling me not to do something which is anyway unnecessary.

I've also checked my own profile here, to see which email address I supplied. It's another Yahoo one. If it had (STUPIDLY) been my main work one, I would have changed that too.

I have also considered asking how one deletes oneself from here, but (obeying instincts) I do not want to do that, yet. It's a good free resource, better than Apple's own user forums. However, should I decide to delete myself from here, how do I do that?

Thanks for any replies from non-sarcastic Mods or Admins.


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#18558 - 10/18/11 02:12 PM Re: ooops [Re: Bensheim]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: Bensheim
Thanks to Hal and his withering sarcasm, and thanks to F/book and their proof of spying on everyone's computers, I have now deleted the Yahoo account with which I used to register with them.

I have also gone into a gmail account and deleted all the contacts because I am in no doubt that F/book will have that account too. This is because all the relatives I was so naively trying to "friend" were in there.

I am the last person on earth who should have gone to F/book. I should have obeyed my instincts which are usually sound, in telling me not to do something which is anyway unnecessary.

I've also checked my own profile here, to see which email address I supplied. It's another Yahoo one. If it had (STUPIDLY) been my main work one, I would have changed that too.

I have also considered asking how one deletes oneself from here, but (obeying instincts) I do not want to do that, yet. It's a good free resource, better than Apple's own user forums. However, should I decide to delete myself from here, how do I do that?

Thanks for any replies from non-sarcastic Mods or Admins.


For the benefit of posterity, may one ask: "Why?" ?

--

FWIW, i think that FTM is really cool when it comes to this sort of thing (data collection). Meaning: i don't notice ANY going on at all.

OTOH, when **posting** a forum message at places like macosxhints, Macworld, MacRumors, MacNN, etc., etc., those sites seem to be reading all kinds of stuff (from our end of the network) which amounts to a noticeable "upload" larger than just the text contained in our posted message.

E.g., if i post "Hello World" in one of those forums, i can see a lot of data being transmitted to their server. . . a whole LOT more than just those 12 chars. What exactly it is that they're logging i'm not sure.

Not so here, as far as i can see.


--

Finally, facebook is actually a ton of fun. I'm in touch with school mates and other acquaintances i haven't seen for over 40 years. Some have a bunch of old pics posted, and gangs of us get together [while scattered all over the globe mind you] and make humorous comments, and recount wild adventures of youth. It's a freakin' blast.

None of that could happen via e-mail or over the phone... not even Skype. It'd be a shame if i let some faux-phobia make me miss out on that.


Edited by Hal Itosis (10/18/11 05:33 PM)

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#18570 - 10/18/11 06:29 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Bensheim]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
You wonder how web sites like FB know about email addresses you maintain without being explicitly told. I can't tell you how they got hold of your Yahoo address, but it must have been from a publicly accessible source. Despite what you claim as certain, it is most assuredly not because they are somehow hacking your Mac.

Beyond the obvious (you or your friends somehow publishing your info like DK described) there are various ways in which you as internet surfer stand out. Some of these details are discussed in the thread Web privacy: cookies vs browser specs. Related privacy/security concerns were discussed in several MacWorld articles I linked to in THE CYBER-SECURITY THREAD.

Another tool I can recommend in this context is Safari extension Ghostery, which shows you who's tracking you when you visit any particular web page. Install it, visit these forums again and see for yourself. Then compare that with other sites you frequent.

As to whether FTM can access your cookies, I can say that as a mod I can't with the UBB.threads tools I have access to. It's possible that admins have access to such tools, but to be sure they would have to chime in with the details. That said and assuming they have such access (it would be a UBB software-based privilege), I'm sure that they aren't likely to use it if only because they have better things to do. That may not reassure you, but it's good enough for me. Btw, the FTM cookies control your access to the forums, nothing more, nothing less.

Finally, the email address you need to provide FTMF upon registering is required so admins have a way to contact you directly, in case contact via the forums is not possible or desirable. Even for that purpose we don't use these addresses lightly, nor (AFAIK) do we provide 3rd party access to them.
_________________________
alternaut moderator

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#18592 - 10/19/11 11:56 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: alternaut]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: alternaut
You wonder how web sites like FB know about email addresses you maintain without being explicitly told. I can't tell you how they got hold of your Yahoo address, but it must have been from a publicly accessible source.


Alternaut, did you read my post no. 18532 (now on page 1)?

I did not give them my real name. They did not know my real name. Real name, not. I did not give them my company name. They did not know my company name. I was a Fictional name. There was no connection, there, between me/my company, and my Fictional name.

No ONE had responded to "friend" requests either. ALL they knew was that I had "friend requested" some relatives. That does not instantly identify me or my company!

Quote:
Despite what you claim as certain, it is most assuredly not because they are somehow hacking your Mac.


Hacking? I never mentioned hacking. What I am saying is that they proved to me that they do have a trail of websites visited, even if you are not a member of F/book.

Quote:
Beyond the obvious (you or your friends somehow publishing your info like DK described) there are various ways in which you as internet surfer stand out. Some of these details are discussed in the thread Web privacy: cookies vs browser specs. Related privacy/security concerns were discussed in several MacWorld articles I linked to in THE CYBER-SECURITY THREAD.

Another tool I can recommend in this context is Safari extension Ghostery, which shows you who's tracking you when you visit any particular web page. Install it, visit these forums again and see for yourself. Then compare that with other sites you frequent.


The first thread you mention, I am already in it.
The one linking to Macworld, I have just looked at, and I had already done all the safety/security tips recommended therein.

Quote:
As to whether FTM can access your cookies, I can say that as a mod I can't with the UBB.threads tools I have access to. It's possible that admins have access to such tools, but to be sure they would have to chime in with the details. That said and assuming they have such access (it would be a UBB software-based privilege), I'm sure that they aren't likely to use it if only because they have better things to do. That may not reassure you, but it's good enough for me. Btw, the FTM cookies control your access to the forums, nothing more, nothing less.

Finally, the email address you need to provide FTMF upon registering is required so admins have a way to contact you directly, in case contact via the forums is not possible or desirable. Even for that purpose we don't use these addresses lightly, nor (AFAIK) do we provide 3rd party access to them.


That is not the address I deleted.

===============

I must admit to being astonished that people as computer-savvy as yourselves (that's a collective yourselves) are not bothered about the fact that F/book have proved that they track internet use AND demonstrate that to your face. If, however, you now have me down as a delusional hysteric then I'm afraid there is little I can do to prove what I say happened to me on Monday night.

F/book is the creepiest site on earth, and they prove it. Oh, and I don't use Safari, but thanks for that suggestion, I only use Firefox and IE when absolutely necessary as aforementioned elsewhere on this forum. (People didn't believe me about that either IIRC.)


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#18597 - 10/19/11 01:25 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Bensheim]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Quote:
I must admit to being astonished that people as computer-savvy as yourselves (that's a collective yourselves) are not bothered about the fact that F/book have proved that they track internet use AND demonstrate that to your face.

Sounds like you haven't looked at your cookie file yet, despite several posts (including one from an admin, back on page one) having already posited that as the most reasonable solution to this angst-ridden mystery.

Facebook doesn't need to "track you around the Internet" just to discover that secret e-mail address, when some other site you frequent has thoughtfully preserved that info inside your cookie file already.

Yes, facebook —as well as an increasing number of sites (as i mentioned: google, and we can probably add yahoo) —use whatever legal means they can to determine what people enjoy doing... so they can strategically place appropriately tempting advertisements hither and yon. But this practice is common knowledge... and (as i also mentioned), you seem to have survived for many years now with that same cookie info exposed to the world, easily available to those who might seek to peruse it.

Perhaps we (and the other 500 million facebook users) could better share your concern if we knew what to be afraid of.

Help us.


Edited by Hal Itosis (10/19/11 01:46 PM)

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#18599 - 10/19/11 01:59 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Hal Itosis]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
You mean this bit from Tacit?

"Most likely, they know about the Yahoo account because they see the Yahoo cookie."

Well, my F/book account was registered with a Yahoo email address. (Which I've now deleted.)

Hence them seeing a Yahoo cookie. According to your/Tacit's "logic".

You can sneer at me all you like, Hal. It only hurts a bit. Not being believed by anyone here (other than sneering Hal) hurts more.

Oh and before I leave I must say that I really don't like being spoken to like that. I run my own small but successful business and have done for 25 years, through multiple recessions, ups and downs, but we keep going strong. Not many other small businesses can say that, these days. I have staff and legal and financial responsibilities. I am not stupid, nor an hysterical type.

So now I will take the course which is usually advised when encountering someone who takes great glee in trying to pull you down on a messageboard: Ignore Them.

That is my last post to you. Goodbye Hal.


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#18600 - 10/19/11 02:27 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Bensheim]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Wow.

I think you have misunderstood 97% of what's been said in this thread.

Starting from the overreaction to my first post right through to my last.

I wonder why.


PS: have you searched your cookie file yet, to see ALL the e-mail addresses there?


Edited by Hal Itosis (10/19/11 02:34 PM)

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#18605 - 10/19/11 04:10 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Bensheim]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Nobody to my knowledge is sneering at you or disbelieving you.

Facebook may be able to read Yahoo cookies. That's how they found your Yahoo address--the one you didn't give them. A bit creepy, to be sure, but not necessarily nefarious. Any time you use Yahoo, and you tell Yahoo to remember your ID, a cookie is sent to your computer; if you have three Yahoo accounts, you have (at least) three Yahoo login cookies. If Facebook saw one of those, that's how they knew about the account.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#18612 - 10/19/11 11:41 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Well, if your email address is in the address books of those extraneous people you know, and they have at some point used Facebook's "friend finder," a feature which peruses their address books for matches with name/email address combos already in the FB database, then when the would-be friender entered your name/email address combo, FB likely matched it up with info already in the database ("hey, we already have an artie505@whatever.net—in the address books of Paul Extraneous and Art Extraneous—so let's try to get these good folks together on Facebook").

By "the address books," may I assume that you mean the address books people have created in their Facebook accounts, not the address books on their computers?

If so, my question remains unanswered, because, while it's not at all unlikely that extraneous #1 has me in her address book, extraneous #2 swears that he doesn't have, and has never had, a Facebook address book.

Is it possible that an unnamed extraneous #3 has both me and extraneous #2 in hir address book and thus the connection?

Oh, well... It's not like I'm freaking out over the whole thing; I'm just trying to get a bit of insight into Facebook.

Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
One can choose to find this unauthorized bandying about of one's email address sinister (although the friends/acquaintances who used "friend finder" provided authorization by proxy; does that make them sinister?), but with 10% of the world's population using Facebook, techniques for figuring out who really knows whom might, alternatively, be regarded as essential.

Anyone who's tried to find his or her long-lost college roomie Bill Clark, only to give up after the first four or five hundred Bill Clarks returned by a Facebook search, might appreciate seeing the correct Bill Clark proffered as a potential friend, without being too alarmed by the implications such magic carries regarding the data manipulation going on behind the scenes.

My impression is that many (most?) people who join Facebook are both looking to be found and to find others and are happy that Facebook can accommodate them...without getting to deeply into the means.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18616 - 10/20/11 03:44 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
By "the address books," may I assume that you mean the address books people have created in their Facebook accounts, not the address books on their computers?

No, I meant the address books on their computers. Those are what "friend finder" uses to look for "people you may know" who have Facebook accounts.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#18622 - 10/20/11 11:07 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
The moment has passed, mercifully. I grew weary of deleting cookies for every website, since I use the internet so much for work and other. My attempts at controlling website presence were self-defeating and frankly pathetic.

One of the benefits of growing older is learning what to get riled up about, and what to move on from and get over it. Tomorrow is another day and who knows how many days any of us have left. Life's too short for this nonsense.

I apologise for the rants. It happens to everyone from time to time unless you are a Zen Buddhist, presumably.

Thank you to all the mods for your as-ever calm. (Are you Zen Buddhists?) <----joke, of sorts.

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#18623 - 10/20/11 11:45 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Quote:
By "the address books," may I assume that you mean the address books people have created in their Facebook accounts, not the address books on their computers?

No, I meant the address books on their computers. Those are what "friend finder" uses to look for "people you may know" who have Facebook accounts.

Wow! So people actually give Facebook access to their entire lives, so to speak.

In that case, I'll never be able to even begin to guess how the connection to me was made.

Ces't la vie!

Thanks.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18624 - 10/20/11 11:48 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Bensheim]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Very cool !
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18626 - 10/20/11 03:07 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
Wow! So people actually give Facebook access to their entire lives, so to speak.

There's an entire generation of young adults out there who have never experienced privacy of the sort we older'uns are accustomed to claiming as our birthright.

It might be argued that those folks actually have a more realistic understanding of the fact that one can't really hide in this day and age than we do.

Unless your consumer transactions are all consummated with cash, your name and what you buy are recorded in a database somewhere. Unless you're paid under the table, your place of employment and your income are noted by the IRS. Those who drive have license, registration and insurance information out there. Those who visit a doctor have medical records out there. Campaign contributions can be looked up. Real estate transactions and whether property taxes are paid on time are a matter of public record.

Against this backdrop, allowing Facebook to import one's address book so people in it can be suggested as prospective Facebook friends doesn't seem an alarmingly unwise choice.
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#18629 - 10/20/11 05:40 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

There's an entire generation of young adults out there who have never experienced privacy of the sort we older'uns are accustomed to claiming as our birthright.

It might be argued that those folks actually have a more realistic understanding of the fact that one can't really hide in this day and age than we do.


Actually, I think it's a bit different. I think that many people consciously CHOOSE not to have the kind of privacy that some of us claim as our birthright, because they see no advantage to it.

Instead of thinking "I want to go through life with my head down, being as private and withdrawn as possible from other people and hiding myself from the folks around me," they think "I want to be visible; I want to reach out and make connections with other people; I want to be seen by the folks who are like me, and use these tools to form a community of people I'm close to."
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#18633 - 10/20/11 11:38 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Unless your consumer transactions are all consummated with cash, your name and what you buy are recorded in a database somewhere. Unless you're paid under the table, your place of employment and your income are noted by the IRS. Those who drive have license, registration and insurance information out there. Those who visit a doctor have medical records out there. Campaign contributions can be looked up. Real estate transactions and whether property taxes are paid on time are a matter of public record.

Against this backdrop, allowing Facebook to import one's address book so people in it can be suggested as prospective Facebook friends doesn't seem an alarmingly unwise choice.

Everybody is somewhat vulnerable to digging, but opening up your address book to Facebook voluntarily exposes you to not only those to whom you choose to be exposed, but to those from whom you'd prefer to be hidden.

As the old saw goes, though, you pay your money, you make your choices, and you take your chances.

I'll stand by my

Quote:
My impression is that many (most?) people who join Facebook are both looking to be found and to find others and are happy that Facebook can accommodate them...without getting to deeply into the means.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18634 - 10/21/11 03:23 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...opening up your address book to Facebook voluntarily exposes you to not only those to whom you choose to be exposed, but to those from whom you'd prefer to be hidden.

I suppose that's true for those who leave Facebook's privacy controls configured to the wide-open settings Facebook would prefer (Facebook's goal is for all seven billion of us to have seven billion friends each), but for those who choose the most restrictive settings, the resulting "people you may know" suggestions Facebook makes to folks found in your address book don't allow those folks to know much more about you than that you exist—which, presumably, they already know, else why would they be in your address book?
_________________________

dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#18637 - 10/21/11 07:44 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: tacit]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: tacit
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

There's an entire generation of young adults out there who have never experienced privacy of the sort we older'uns are accustomed to claiming as our birthright.

It might be argued that those folks actually have a more realistic understanding of the fact that one can't really hide in this day and age than we do.


Actually, I think it's a bit different. I think that many people consciously CHOOSE not to have the kind of privacy that some of us claim as our birthright, because they see no advantage to it.

Instead of thinking "I want to go through life with my head down, being as private and withdrawn as possible from other people and hiding myself from the folks around me," they think "I want to be visible; I want to reach out and make connections with other people; I want to be seen by the folks who are like me, and use these tools to form a community of people I'm close to."


There actually may be a more realistic middle ground that many of us "older'uns" are seeking and that is, WE want to choose to whom we reveal ourselves. It is not necessarily to no one or to everyone, but rather people, institutions, whatever that we choose.

As this thread has pointed out, that type of determination may not be possible with Facebook and its similar ilk.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#18640 - 10/21/11 11:22 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: dkmarsh]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
"(Facebook's goal is for all seven billion of us to have seven billion friends each)"

Then they have failed with this particular individual. Not that one non-convert will make any difference to their alleged hegemony.

I couldn't see the point of it. I already exchange photos with my brothers without F/book's help. I had no intention of posting photos of mine, for 7 billion people to see, potentially.

Going back to someone else's post about getting back in touch with people from college days 40 years ago; I've already been round that trail with Friends Reunited, about 10 years ago. We got in touch, met up in real life, and then that was more or less it. Life moves on. It's not necessarily fascinating to hear or see what now-60 yr old college mates are doing with their grandchildren on holiday.

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#18642 - 10/21/11 05:27 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: Ira L]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: Ira L
There actually may be a more realistic middle ground that many of us "older'uns" are seeking and that is, WE want to choose to whom we reveal ourselves. It is not necessarily to no one or to everyone, but rather people, institutions, whatever that we choose.

As this thread has pointed out, that type of determination may not be possible with Facebook and its similar ilk.


Except that that hasn't been possible for at least the last forty years or so.

Facebook and the advent of the computer age hasn't actually eroded privacy the way we think it has. What it's done is made it impossible to ignore the fact that our privacy was already eroded.

It started with telephones and credit cards. Credit cards alone give you an incredibly detailed picture of someone's life; put 'em together with phone records and oyu can trace who that person knows, who they're business rivals with, who they're sleeping with, you name it.

Add grocery store discount cards to the mix and it gets even better--and available to more people. Throw cell phones into the mix...well, you get the idea.

Privacy is an illusion. You haven't had it for decades. Facebook didn't make that happen; it just took the illusion away.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#18643 - 10/21/11 09:59 PM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: tacit]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
i guess one stipulation of a 'social network' is that its members be... well, social.

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#18650 - 10/22/11 08:07 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: tacit]
Ira L Offline


Registered: 08/13/09
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: tacit
Originally Posted By: Ira L
There actually may be a more realistic middle ground that many of us "older'uns" are seeking and that is, WE want to choose to whom we reveal ourselves. It is not necessarily to no one or to everyone, but rather people, institutions, whatever that we choose.

As this thread has pointed out, that type of determination may not be possible with Facebook and its similar ilk.


Privacy is an illusion. You haven't had it for decades. Facebook didn't make that happen; it just took the illusion away.


Alas. Good point.
_________________________
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.14.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!

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#18652 - 10/22/11 10:17 AM Re: F/book. OUT of there. [Re: tacit]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: tacit

........ who they're sleeping with, ......


How do you work that one out?


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