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#18215 - 10/12/11 06:43 AM Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7)
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I'm starting this thread in the Lounge because continued rants in the parent thread "Help - Content not available" in Mac OS X Applications is inappropriate. (If it's not, I'm sure the moderators will deal with it.) So, here goes ...

Lion is the most complicated and opaque entity that I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. It makes a flight manual seem like a Dick & Jane reader. In fact, I may just go out for a flight to relax and give Apple the finger from a mile high. Then maybe I'll do a couple of surgeries, since the internal workings of animals and their repair are far more transparent than Lion, and fixing them provides a high level of satisfaction and feeling of achievement which messing/muddling around with Lion sure doesn't.
[Bitter and frustrated and disappointed and borderline depressed?! You bet!]

Two decades ago I convinced my computer-illiterate sister to get engaged with Macs, if only so we could email one another (rather than use snail mail and telephone). Then, through various generations of PPCs, I had to help her troubleshoot and maintain her hardware and software, as well as guide her through the 'intricacies' of the Internet.
In the past few years she has outpaced me by switching to OS X (through a series of eMacs and iMacs) and can handle various applications such as iPhoto (that I have zero interest in) like a pro. I might be able to password her router (about which I know nothing and can only manage via hit-or-miss techniques), but that's just a fluke.
Given that sort of history, if she can do it, why can't I deal with the ins and outs of Lion?! I'm not exactly stupid, but my current experience with Apple would sure seem to point in that direction. There is something seriously wrong with the way Apple's Mac hardware and software have evolved to make me feel the way I do ... and I resent it.
I'm essentially reduced to using my computer for word processing, email, trivial Web browsing, and the like ... unless I go back to my old iMac and OS 9, which give me no grief and no "Content not available".

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#18219 - 10/12/11 10:01 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
I've been thinking about your grief and have read a number of your posts and have had an idea.

You might think it crazy, but will only cost you about $29 US (I know you said you were in Canada, just trying to help).

Buy a Snow Leopard 10.6 and instal that.

None of your OS9 applications will work in Lion anyway - there's no Rosetta support, whereas there is in Snow Leopard.

At least you'll have a disk in your hand: I was astonished to read that Lion does not come on a disk but has to be dowloaded (yes I know there is masses of support out there to make a Lion-bootable disk, but my idea negates that).

From what I've read, Snow Leopard is easier than Lion. To me, it's not much different to Tiger from which I upgraded; just cosmetic stuff and faster processing, maybe.

Also, if all you're doing is some emails, word processing and the occasional internet, you don't need Lion anyway. (I can only presume that you bought a new Mac which had Lion pre-installed?)

Anyway, me, I'd go for it. Hope that helps.

Here's the link to the US Apple Store
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC573Z/A?mco=MTc1MTI2NzA

Other retailers are available. I bought mine off Amazon.

Another thought: with your dial-up connection you're unlikely to be unable to download another Lion operating system should you need to. (to make a bootable back-up disc or something like that.)


Edited by Bensheim (10/12/11 10:04 AM)

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#18223 - 10/12/11 12:23 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: Bensheim]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Many thanks for your concern. I've seriously thought about reversion to Snow Leopard. But my iMac came loaded with 10.7, already updated to 10.7.1. I think it's Apple's responsibility to make things work and to tell me precisely how to do them. Unfortunately, most tech support there has so far been wanting. I've got 90 days (now 78 days) to get them to give me what I need and make my set-up work.
I've always thought that most things in the world suck, and Apple is just confirming that in this arena.

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#18224 - 10/12/11 12:38 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
Er, Grelber, for what it's worth,

many (in my opinion, wonderful) people here are trying to help you.

Yet it's getting harder to help you with all that anger and hostility coming down the line. In my opinion.

You chose to make the huge leap from OS9 to Lion. You could have chosen an easier migration.

I somehow do not think you're going to get the resolution you seek, for many different reasons, now.

People here, who are a fantastic free resource, have tried over and over again to offer expertise; yet all you do is continue to rage over your own buying decision.

I wish you well. It could be easier than you make out. Apple does not "suck", mate.

Oh, and I'd never buy into a .0 or a .1 release of anything. I'd have waited until further down the release-line to get all the "issues" sorted out. The internet is full of warnings, after all.

Bye for now. Again.

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#18225 - 10/12/11 12:59 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: Bensheim]
Bensheim Offline


Registered: 08/16/09
Loc: UK
If you don't believe me, here's another member of this forum tearing his hair out over Lion:

http://www.finetunedmac.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18221#Post18221

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#18226 - 10/12/11 01:03 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: Bensheim]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> "I was astonished to read that Lion does not come on a disk but has to be dowloaded [....]"

OS X Lion USB Thumb Drive - Apple Store (U.S.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18228 - 10/12/11 02:35 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: Bensheim]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Bensheim
Er, Grelber, for what it's worth, many (in my opinion, wonderful) people here are trying to help you.
Yet it's getting harder to help you with all that anger and hostility coming down the line. In my opinion.
You chose to make the huge leap from OS9 to Lion. You could have chosen an easier migration.
I somehow do not think you're going to get the resolution you seek, for many different reasons, now.
People here, who are a fantastic free resource, have tried over and over again to offer expertise; yet all you do is continue to rage over your own buying decision.


For the most part I agree with you.

There are indeed many wonderful people here trying to help — which I truly appreciate.

In point of fact much of the help offered does not work in 10.7, at least not with my iMac, and I have gotten into serious trouble trying to adapt the advice and, fortunately, other wonderful people have saved me from my screwing up after having done so.

That's the reason I moved to the Lounge to rant and vent, preferring not to 'contaminate' the troubleshooting issues in the various other forums. I think that's reasonable on both counts.

And when I get mis- or non-understanding of my plights (with the same advice being proffered, even by Apple techs, over and over again despite my plaint that it's not working for me), most significantly with the attempt to make the Help Viewer function properly, you might empathize (or at least sympathize) with my frustration and despondency.

Any road ... it is what it is. And I appreciate your input and concern.

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#18229 - 10/12/11 02:45 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: Bensheim]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: Bensheim
If you don't believe me, here's another member of this forum tearing his hair out over Lion:
http://www.finetunedmac.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=18221#Post18221


If Lion is baffling the Forums' experts, maybe I should not feel so bad.

On the other hand, my not having a clue what is being talked about (eg, restore partitions and virtually everything else in that post), merely increases my anxiety level.

I couldn't figure out what was going on with OS X when it was first introduced (which is why I declined getting involved) and I sure as sh*t don't know what's going on now.

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#18231 - 10/12/11 03:54 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Originally Posted By: grelber
... the attempt to make the Help Viewer function properly ...

See Post #18230.

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#18260 - 10/13/11 10:27 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
It's now been two weeks less a day since I got my new iMac.

I like the hardware ... at least the physical stuff I can see with my two eyes.

OS X Lion will forever remain a mystery.

I'm sure that there are some very fine features and abilities built into the set-up ... but learning about them and actually using them clearly exceeds my skill set (as my confusion and consternation in multiple forums indicates).

This whole 'adventure' has been way too distressing for me to allow it to continue. Schadenfreude (especially in reference to myself) is not my thing.

I am now going to give up on trying to understand what's going on with it and how I might get it to do my bidding.

It's been a gas ... and I mean that in the Hindenburg sense.

Maybe down the road I'll have a question or two someone can help with.

Sayonara.

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#18279 - 10/13/11 01:19 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I'm sure that there are some very features and abilities built into the set-up ... but learning about them and actually using them clearly exceeds my skill set (as my confusion and consternation in multiple forums indicates).

I suspect that at least part, possibly no small part, of your confusion and consternation are rooted in your having attempted to tackle multiple issues at the same time, in a very small period of time, and often in the same thread.

Now that you're more or less on your way, flush your newly acquired attitude, take a step back, wait for Pogue's book, begin anew with baby steps, and see if maybe you and OS X Lion can come to some sort of meaningful agreement.

Good luck!
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18305 - 10/14/11 01:52 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: artie505]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
wait for Pogue's book


I can't believe it's not out yet. I know his book was hugely helpful when I transitioned from 9 to 10.3.9.

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#18306 - 10/14/11 02:05 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: dboh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dboh
Quote:
wait for Pogue's book


I can't believe it's not out yet. I know his book was hugely helpful when I transitioned from 9 to 10.3.9.

e/o/m, supposedly.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#18338 - 10/14/11 12:39 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: grelber]
MG2009 Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
DAVID POGUE offers a series of books called THE MISSING MANUAL for Apple's operating systems. The newest version (i.e. for LION 10.7) is due to be released in NOVEMBER through Amazon.

He is well-respected among many Apple products users. Search his name in this Forum and you will see some references to his materials. And he (usually) writes in "plain English" - for people like me.

Perhaps his expertise under one cover will come in handy for you and save you some time and grief hopping about The Net looking for the guidance you seek.

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#18344 - 10/14/11 01:10 PM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: MG2009]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
I believe that Grelber stated some time ago that he was waiting for Pogue's book.
_________________________
alternaut moderator

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#18391 - 10/15/11 09:14 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: alternaut]
MG2009 Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
In THIS thread? (I think it was Artie in #18279 who made reference to Pogue.)

I thought a few more details about the book might be useful to the OP and others reading this thread.

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#18392 - 10/15/11 09:25 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: MG2009]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#18395 - 10/15/11 09:38 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: MG2009]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: MG2009
In THIS thread? (I think it was Artie in #18279 who made reference to Pogue.)

No, not here, but last week in KeyFinder & faxSTF — substitutes? That may have been prompted by a comment from Jon (post 17771).
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alternaut moderator

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#18807 - 10/31/11 01:18 AM Re: Rant on Lion (OS X 10.7) [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Just so's y'all know:
Pogue's book, Mac OS X Lion: The Missing Manual, was shipped to me yesterday around noon. Interesting, in that it isn't supposed to hit store shelves until November 2.

Amazon offers a whopping discount on the cover price — in both US and Canada, ca $23.

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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn