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#17677 - 09/29/11 11:50 AM Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
So, now thinking the average person hasn't had enough problems (and that Bank profits aren't high enough), banks plan to charge fees for debit card purchases.

ryck


Edited by ryck (09/29/11 11:51 AM)
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#17678 - 09/29/11 12:14 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: ryck]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Not to rain on your parade, but the fact that banks are looking for more revenue is not exactly new, and neither is the target group of this particular plan. After all, it were the consumers' representatives who dared make noises against other revenue streams. smirk Anyway, the article states that the charge is mostly levied as a test against which consumers who don't like it should protest, or suffer the consequences. So, protest away!
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#17686 - 09/29/11 06:20 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: alternaut]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Next we'll have to pay to park in the parking lot when we visit our safety-deposit boxes.

[but seriously, i thought the whole point of debit versus credit card transactions was supposed to be that no one pays any fee. what's next...charging for writing a check? (beyond having to purchase the printed paper in the first place i mean).]

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#17752 - 10/02/11 12:52 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I'm in the wrong damn business. Banks have always had a great gig: they charge you to take your money, charge you to keep your money, charge you to tell you how much money you have, and charge you to give your money back to you.

The only folks who have it better are casinos. Normal businesses accept money and give you back a good or a service; casinos accept money and give you back...nothing.

A few months ago, the bank where I had my business account got bought out by another bank. The bank where I originally had my account gave me free checking. When the new bank bought them, they started charging me a (big!) monthly fee for my checking account, even though I didn't sign any contract or agree to it in any way. Apparently, that's absolutely legal.
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#17755 - 10/02/11 01:08 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: tacit
1. The only folks who have it better are casinos.

2. A few months ago, the bank where I had my business account got bought out by another bank. The bank where I originally had my account gave me free checking. When the new bank bought them, they started charging me a (big!) monthly fee for my checking account, even though I didn't sign any contract or agree to it in any way. Apparently, that's absolutely legal.

1. And weather forecasters!

2. Yep! Every bank agreement I've ever looked at has got a "Prices subject to change at our option and without notice" clause.

A while back, one of my banks became the first NYS bank closed by the FDIC in more than 60 years, and the bank that took over its accounts immediately and arbitrarily reduced my CD rate from (a not outrageous at the time) 2.25% to 0.50%. mad

I was most amused when the bank employee to whom I spoke didn't understand why I felt that the bank had told me that it didn't want my business. confused

Edit: I should qualify that mad by mentioning that the bank did me a huge favor, because I accepted its offer to redeem my CD with no penalty, rethought my investment strategy, and wound up in a better position ( grin ) which, although nice, didn't mitigate the injustice.


Edited by artie505 (10/02/11 01:16 AM)
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#17769 - 10/02/11 08:21 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: tacit]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: tacit
A few months ago, the bank where I had my business account got bought out by another bank. The bank where I originally had my account gave me free checking. When the new bank bought them, they started charging me a (big!) monthly fee for my checking account, even though I didn't sign any contract or agree to it in any way. Apparently, that's absolutely legal.

Your experience reminds me of a conversation I had about ten years ago when I was involved in a joint management/union project for a client. One of the ladies with the union told me about a chequing account she had that went back about four decades.

During a long past major revision in banking regulations, one provision stipulated a bank could not change any conditions of a customer's account without the permission of the customer. That provision has been changed since but was 'grandfathered in' and remains intact for the customers who had accounts prior to the first revision.

Her account is one of the chequing accounts we all remember - cheques provided for free, no fees of any kind and a small amount of interest. Apparently only this lady and six other people in all of Canada still had one of those accounts and it was a giant pain in the butt for the bank.

She laughed when she told me about the many times the bank had made offers of all sorts of "bells and whistles" if she would just upgrade to something "more modern". But, as she said, "This account suits me just fine, so why would I change?"

Score one for the little guys.

ryck


Edited by ryck (10/02/11 08:23 AM)
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#17776 - 10/02/11 02:08 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: ryck]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Anyone have any recommendations for —and/or experience with —high interest savings accounts? [my IRA is in the middle of a nose-dive... and i want some ammo to "motivate" my portfolio manager.]


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#17777 - 10/02/11 02:13 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
...JER Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
Anyone have any recommendations for —and/or experience with —high interest savings accounts? [my IRA is in the middle of a nose-dive... and i want some ammo to "motivate" my portfolio manager.]



I think the only high interest these days is when you're paying, not when they pay you! grin
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#17779 - 10/02/11 02:35 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
Anyone have any recommendations for —and/or experience with —high interest savings accounts? [my IRA is in the middle of a nose-dive... and i want some ammo to "motivate" my portfolio manager.]

When I was in the CD market, Ally Bank (formerly GMAC Bank) consistently paid the highest interest rates.

The FDIC pretty much levels the playing field in all other respects, and I'd never consider any bank that wasn't FDIC insured, regardless of what it was paying.
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#17787 - 10/02/11 07:00 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: artie505
When I was in the CD market, Ally Bank (formerly GMAC Bank) consistently paid the highest interest rates.

The FDIC pretty much levels the playing field in all other aspects, and I'd never consider any bank that wasn't FDIC insured, regardless of what it was paying.

Thanks Artie. Been eyeing American Express, Wachovia (wells fargo) and ING Direct... but that Ally looks okay as well.


The other bit of fun i had recently was writing some checks on an account which i hadn't been actively using for a while (2 years). The checks were actually written to myself, and i deposited them into another account at a different bank.] But apparently my signature has "changed" enough that bank #1 felt happy not to honor them... so now i'm stuck with several bounced check fees for simply trying to transfer my own money from one bank to another. [plus i don't live near that first bank, and it's a real hassle getting a person on the phone to cuss out.]

unbelievable.

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#17788 - 10/02/11 08:41 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Hal, you are lucky! BofA does charge for writing checks (3 dollars a month). The explanation: we scan them and attach to the statement. Good news: it appears to be a flat fee...
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#17790 - 10/02/11 11:33 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
The checks were actually written to myself, and i deposited them into another account at a different bank.] But apparently my signature has "changed" enough that bank #1 felt happy not to honor them... so now i'm stuck with several bounced check fees for simply trying to transfer my own money from one bank to another.

And that likely has its roots in the original rationale (as I recall) for having things like Debit Cards. The banks were able to save a lot of money by laying off a bunch of people who would otherwise have been involved in things like service. There was a time when the bank would have had someone call you to verify before making such a drastic move as bouncing your cheque.

ryck


Edited by ryck (10/02/11 11:35 PM)
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#17795 - 10/03/11 01:56 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Banks... As the old saying goes, you can't live with 'em, but you can't live without 'em.

> But apparently my signature has "changed" enough that bank #1 felt happy not to honor them... so now i'm stuck with several bounced check fees for simply trying to transfer my own money from one bank to another.

Wow! I didn't think sigs were ever verified (I've seen unsigned checks for many thousands of $ clear.), and I'm shocked that yours were simply bounced as opposed to the bank having contacted you as a security precaution. (I think that's an excellent reason to discontinue all business with that bank!)
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#17796 - 10/03/11 02:00 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: macnerd10]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Chase does not charge me for writing checks nor does it provide me with copies of cleared checks, which are available on line, and all that's fine by me.
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#17815 - 10/03/11 05:03 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: tacit]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
Banks have always had a great gig: they charge you to take your money, charge you to keep your money, charge you to tell you how much money you have, and charge you to give your money back to you.


And…expect you to thank them for it!

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#17816 - 10/03/11 05:06 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Keep your eye on those electronic checks. Twice, I've been charged for more than I wrote. No way to see this until I get my statement. Neither time was for a whole lot of money, but if I'd had a low balance, this could have been a real problem. Not the bank's of course…

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#17817 - 10/03/11 06:05 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: dboh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dboh
Keep your eye on those electronic checks. Twice, I've been charged for more than I wrote. No way to see this until I get my statement. Neither time was for a whole lot of money, but if I'd had a low balance, this could have been a real problem. Not the bank's of course…

I monitor my checking account on-line...nightly, if not more frequently.

Note: I don't write electronic checks; what I said was that Chase stores my handwritten checks on line so they don't have to expend time, effort, and money returning them to me.
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#17823 - 10/03/11 10:18 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
Wow! I didn't think sigs were ever verified (I've seen unsigned checks for many thousands of $ clear.)

A friend of mine in the retail banking business told me that their bank tellers call up a visiting client's file on screen, and that this file prominently includes the client's signature along with current account status etc. The signature is there to be checked, and check they do! This procedure may not apply to every single bank, but that's increasingly unlikely.
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#17824 - 10/03/11 10:31 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
...Chase stores my handwritten checks on line so they don't have to expend time, effort, and money returning them to me.

Of course, this means added time, effort and money for you if you ever need proof of payment for products or services you paid for by check.
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#17825 - 10/03/11 10:52 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: artie505
Wow! I didn't think sigs were ever verified (I've seen unsigned checks for many thousands of $ clear.)

A friend of mine in the retail banking business told me that their bank tellers call up a visiting client's file on screen, and that this file prominently includes the client's signature along with current account status etc. The signature is there to be checked, and check they do! This procedure may not apply to every single bank, but that's increasingly unlikely.

I guess the electronics age has gotten a bit past me, although I still wonder how/if the banks verify the sigs on the gazillions of checks that are processed electronically...Hal's original issue?
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#17828 - 10/03/11 11:15 AM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Quote:
...Chase stores my handwritten checks on line so they don't have to expend time, effort, and money returning them to me.

Of course, this means added time, effort and money for you if you ever need proof of payment for products or services you paid for by check.

Not really... I can view and print the front and back of any check I write from my Chase on-line account.

I think there's some sort of time window, though, so documenting purchases, etc. on the spot is a wise idea.
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#17835 - 10/03/11 12:02 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: ryck]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
I went through this many years ago, my bank exchanged me "free checking" and "no minimum balance" for getting my statements electronically and not mailing me my cashed checks.

Then suddenly in the course of three weeks the bank was bought and sold twice. It was one of those things where a company (not necessarily even a bank) buys the bank, strips off the assets, and then immediately resells it to an actual banking company. All the end bank gets is the customer base, none of the assets. So they started charging me for everything suddenly. I called them up and explained "we had a deal" and they basically said I had a deal with the original bank, not them, tough luck.

So I pulled my money out of my savings and most out of checking and into a local credit union and forgot about them. Over half a year later I get a letter from the bank telling me my account was "overdrawn". I called to see why, and they said it had been getting hit with ~$5 monthly charges due to not meeting minimum balance, and as of this month it was at -$2.57 and so I told them to go away. I looked back at it and I think they nibbled about $50 from the account.

All I could think is wow, they sure didn't place much value in those new customers they bought huh? My bank is no longer a credit union, they've converted to a normal bank but they provide excellent services, good hours, easy contact, I have no complaints. (though their main ATM is in the sun and the deposit envelopes keep getting sealed by the heat!) They appear to be doing very well, I don't know why all banks can't be that way.
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#17843 - 10/03/11 02:18 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: Virtual1]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
To avoid this, you must close the account. In your case, I guess, there was no incentive to keep anything in that bank.
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#17844 - 10/03/11 03:18 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
Note: I don't write electronic checks; what I said was that Chase stores my handwritten checks on line so they don't have to expend time, effort, and money returning them to me.


Yes, I have that too. But I'm talking about companies electronically "cashing" them. They don't physically submit the checks to the bank. MasterCard and Visa don't physically send the checks back to the banks to get cashed; they wire what the check's for and the bank gives them that amount.

I pay with paper checks; the majority of my checks aren't even stored online because the bank never gets them.

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#17846 - 10/03/11 03:30 PM Re: Oink Oink, You Banks, Oink Oink [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
I can view and print the front and back of any check I write from my Chase on-line account.

Yes, you can use your ink and paper and a minute or two of your time and produce a facsimile which a disputant could easily argue proves nothing except that you might have written said check or you might merely be adept at Photoshop.

Real proof will require confirmation by the bank, which means more time and inconvenience for you.

And, as you noted, there's a limited time frame during which scanned check images are available to you; to achieve the level of security you'd have if cancelled checks were returned to you with your statement, you'd have to print them all—meaning, as I said earlier, that the time, effort, and money the bank is saving is a cost that's passed on to you.
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