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#17608 - 09/25/11 03:29 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Well, it's done.

Just went online and ordered from the Apple Store a 21.5" iMac (MC309LL/A: 2.5GHz i5 / 4GB RAM / 500GB hard drive) configured with a full keyboard (not the downsized wireless one without numeric pad); running Mac OS X 10.7 (Lion).

At the same time I went to 1C2C.ca for a FireWire 800 adapter (FAD-824 for use with my older FW cables) and a Zoom Telephonics V.92 56K USB Mini External Modem (for dial-up access and faxing) — both at a fair discount from anything findable locally.

Let the fun and games begin! smile

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#17609 - 09/25/11 03:48 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Well, it's done. [...] Let the fun and games begin! smile

Indeed! We're awaiting your first report with bated breath... tongue
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#17612 - 09/26/11 01:50 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Now, while I'm waiting for my new iMac, a couple of issues come to mind as I scan through my current iMac files — and I'm sure there'll be more:

(1) How do I transfer the contents of my iTunes folder into my new machine? In my OS 9 folder I've got 2 folders - one called iTunes Music and one called iTunes Music Library (2). Is it possible to just drag and drop these into the iTunes icon of the new machine?

(2) In my Mozilla browser I have a window called Mail & Newsgroups where I have several email accounts from different servers set up (so that I can access them conveniently in a single location); these are all separate from my main Web-based email. I have a single outgoing server (SMTP) set and several POP or IMAP server settings. Will the latest Firefox accommodate such? I don't remember seeing such when I've used others' computers.

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#17626 - 09/26/11 01:11 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Very disappointing on the 1c2c.ca front: Apparently they aren't centralized, must ship from several locations, resulting in exorbitant shipping fees. Order canceled.

On the other hand, I was able to find USRobotics 5637 locally and the seller even matched the online price (and then some).

Query: Once the modem is installed, is there any way to have a "connect" icon/alias on my Desktop so that I can conveniently access dial-up? My current set-up using Apple Remote Access has such.

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#17633 - 09/26/11 03:47 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I don't know about a connect icon on the Desktop, but you can put a Modem Status icon on the right side of your menu bar; clicking on that icon will drop down a menu which allows you to connect, monitor elapsed time, and disconnect.
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#17650 - 09/28/11 02:11 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
No one has yet chimed in on #17612 (re iTunes transfer and Mail & News-groups). Do I take it that neither item is possible?

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#17651 - 09/28/11 02:37 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
No one has yet chimed in on #17612 (re iTunes transfer and Mail & News-groups). Do I take it that neither item is possible?

Your iTunes file structure differs from mine, i.e. "In my OS 9 folder I've got 2 folders - one called iTunes Music and one called iTunes Music Library," whereas I've got an iTunes Music folder and an iTunes Music Library.xml file, so I can't help you as respects your question.

On the other hand, though, you can simply launch iTunes on your new iMac, hit command-O (Add to Library), direct the dialog box to the appropriate folder on your (FireWire cabled) old iMac, and let iTunes do the rest. (This may not be the fastest import method, so it may pay you to wait for further input.)

Sorry, but your Mail & News Groups question is beyond me.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17654 - 09/28/11 10:57 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Mozilla, the application suite as you know it from Mac OS 9.x has been superceded by SeaMonkey. Firefox is the stand-alone web browser, just like Thunderbird is the independent email client maintained by the Mozilla Foundation.

As I have never used SeaMonkey, nor Mozilla for email, I cannot provide specifics for a migration of data and accounts from Mozilla, but I suspect that its import function works in ways similar to that in the various Mozilla iterations. In fact, the online documentation of the current version, SeaMonkey 2.4, states that it will offer to migrate your data from SeaMonkey 1.x or Mozilla 1.x at the first start after installation. You might want to ascertain exactly what 'your data' entails, I can't say for sure.

As an alternative, you can set up Mail, Mac OS X's email client, for your various email accounts now handled by Mozilla. Most ISPs have web pages with detailed instructions on how to set up the current crop of email clients under various OSes.

Useful links:
- SeaMonkey
- Firefox
- Thunderbird
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#17655 - 09/28/11 10:57 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
Dermot Trellis Offline


Registered: 09/27/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
No one has yet chimed in on #17612 (re iTunes transfer and Mail & News-groups). Do I take it that neither item is possible?


SeaMonkey may be the only option for the Mail & News-groups. (I've got no experience with it.)

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#17656 - 09/28/11 11:14 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
The only things I use in Mozilla 1.0.1 (which I switched to because Netscape Navigator was overloaded with non-essential extras) is the browser called Mozilla with incorporates the Mail & Newsgroups (which allows for the set-up of multiple mail servers, all in the same place, as noted earlier) and includes an address book (handy for "collected" email addresses, much like Gmail).
So I'm surprized to hear that Firefox 7 wouldn't include such. Ah well ....

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#17657 - 09/28/11 11:44 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: artie505
On the other hand, though, you can simply launch iTunes on your new iMac, hit command-O (Add to Library), direct the dialog box to the appropriate folder on your (FireWire cabled) old iMac, and let iTunes do the rest. (This may not be the fastest import method, so it may pay you to wait for further input.)


It's actually even easier than that. Open the old iTunes library, do a Select All, and drag all the files into the new iTunes window.
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#17661 - 09/28/11 03:16 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Whether grelber goes your route or mine, I believe the "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library" check-box (which appears under iTunes > Prefs > Advanced in my iTunes 8.2.1) must be checked in order for the music transfer to be completed.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17670 - 09/29/11 02:33 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: tacit]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Now it's down to the nitty gritty. My new iMac is due to arrive in the next day or so and my anxiety level is through the roof.

I really have no clue what I'm doing. I've never connected two computers together before. I've only ever installed things from inert media (eg, CDs) or downloaded stuff from the Internet.

It seems to me that connecting two appliances, each plugged into 110v, via sockets/ports which are powered via same, would be like taking an extension cord with two male plugs and plugging it into two wall sockets, blowing/shorting out everything in the house or in this case one or both computers. What am I missing?

Assuming that I can connect my two computers, what should I see on the screens of each? And how do I physically manipulate files/folders in OS 9 to get them over to the new iMac's OS X? Find them via an icon and drag them from one Desktop to the other?

Just as an example: What's an iTunes window? And how would I select the stuff (2 folders, as mentioned earlier) from one system and stick it in another?

And someone warned me about something called "permissions", to the effect that every file/document that comes from one machine to another needs to have access permission dealt with individually - which would mean manipulating thousands of files/documents in some way. What's all that about?

Does the new iMac and/or OS X 10.7 have something like OS 9's Disk First Aid which will fix things in case I do something stupid or perform an "illegal" function or the system crashes?

At this point about the only thing I feel comfortable with doing is installing some software (eg, browser, modem) which I have on discs and USB thumbdrives. I await definitive information and assurances about all else. Pretty please.

EDIT #1:
And so I went for a run to clear my head — didn't help — and then stood 'petrified' in a hot shower for 10 minutes — also didn't help.
I'm guessing that my best route is to use Apple's telephone tech support when the iMac arrives — if I screw things up on their instructions, they'll be on the hook to make it all better.


EDIT #2:
I just searched through Apple Help on my iMac running OS 9 and apparently there is no way to transfer files from it without some other intermediary (such as an external storage device). To say that I'm discouraged by the whole business of trying to upgrade would be understatement to the googol power. I'm about to forget about the whole business and not even bother to take the new one out of the box.


Edited by grelber (09/29/11 10:25 AM)
Edit Reason: Addenda

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#17673 - 09/29/11 09:45 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
My new iMac is due to arrive in the next day or so and my anxiety level is through the roof.
I really have no clue what I'm doing. I've never connected two computers together before.
It seems to me that connecting two appliances, each plugged into 110v, via sockets/ports which are powered via same, would be like taking an extension cord with two male plugs and plugging it into two wall sockets, blowing/shorting out everything in the house or in this case one or both computers. What am I missing?

I would like to start by saying 'Relax', but I realize that's probably not going to work given what you've tried already. Just take everything one item at a time and realize that all this is also supposed to be fun, so you might as well allow for that possibility... smirk Next, what I'm saying below isn't the final word, but a start. We'll adjust, correct and add when needed.

With regard to your question about connecting 110V items, the ports you're connecting are not at line power, but at much less. The exact voltages/currents involved depend on the port type. The procedure to be followed also depends on the type of connection you make. In your case that could be an ethernet/network connection, or Target Disk Mode. Here's how to go about the latter: Transferring files between two computers using target disk mode


Originally Posted By: grelber
Assuming that I can connect my two computers, what should I see on the screens of each? And how do I physically manipulate files/folders in OS 9 to get them over to the new iMac's OS X? Find them via an icon and drag them from one Desktop to the other?

Just as an example: What's an iTunes window? And how would I select the stuff (2 folders, as mentioned earlier) from one system and stick it in another?

What you'll be seeing is (the representing icon of) the old iMac on the desktop of the new iMac or in Finder dialogs. You'll be selecting and moving files and folders from folder to folder or disk, just as you've always done it on your iMac G3. When you move files and folders from one disk or partition to another, they'll be copied, not moved, so the originals stay where they're at.

Alternatively, software on your new iMac (Migration Assistant) may be involved in moving selected data from your old iMac to the new. A note on data migration: Mac OS X can be far more ornery about where you park your stuff than Mac OS 9. For now, put programs in the appropriate Applications folder at the disk level, and data in the Documents folder in your Home folder. Anything else might result in hiccups. If you don't like this limitation, get back here with specific examples later on and we can walk you through possible issues.

On the risk of being perceived as flippant: an iTunes window is what you see when you open iTunes. What you'll be dealing with when moving stuff is any of the iTunes Library windows available (top left), including Music, Movies, etc.


Originally Posted By: grelber
And someone warned me about something called "permissions", to the effect that every file/document that comes from one machine to another needs to have access permission dealt with individually - which would mean manipulating thousands of files/documents in some way. What's all that about?

Filesystem Permissions are an inherent part of Mac OS X and other file systems. Most of its implications will be transparent to the user, but occasionally it requires a more direct approach. For now, I would not worry about it, until you run into a situation where the System will tell you that you don't have enough permissions to do whatever you want to do. Then post back here and we'll deal with it. Until such time, keep this link in mind, which provides some more info on permissions, plus a free utility to help you change them when necessary.


Originally Posted By: grelber
Does the new iMac and/or OS X 10.7 have something like OS 9's Disk First Aid which will fix things in case I do something stupid or perform an "illegal" function or the system crashes?

Yes, and it's called Disk Utility. There are several other options*, including starting up in certain special modes intended to deal with special circumstances, comparable to booting without extensions under Mac OS 9. Again, we'll get to that when necessary.


Originally Posted By: grelber
At this point about the only thing I feel comfortable with doing is installing some software (eg, browser, modem) which I have on discs and USB thumbdrives. I await definitive information and assurances about all else. Pretty please.

You can still do the disc and thumb drive thing, that's just a variation on a theme and still current.


*) Compare OS 9 to your car, packed with all you need for an extended road trip. In terms of resources and utilities, Mac OS X is comparable to a huge ferry carrying hundreds of cars and trucks likewise outfitted. If anything, the Mac OS X 'problem' is realizing what you've got and finding out how to get at it and use it.
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#17675 - 09/29/11 10:40 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Thanks for the attempt at consolation.
But none of the options (ethernet/network connection or Target Disk Mode) is available to me. And I don't comprehend any of the other suggestions/information.
The more info I get, the less I understand. Every new piece of ostensibly helpful information I've been getting from various sources takes me further and deeper into the abyss.
My optimal (and default) solution is the status quo ante.

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#17676 - 09/29/11 11:04 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
But none of the options (ethernet/network connection or Target Disk Mode) is available to me.
The more info I get, the less I understand.

As long as your current iMac G3 has a working FireWire port, FW target mode is a viable option with the FW400-800 adapter cable. And there are your thumb drives.
You have a point with the info being overwhelming and less than helpful, but as long as you don't have your new iMac to check for the things mentioned it's all hanging in a sort of vacuum. All I can suggest for now is to unpack your Mac when it arrives, start it up and follow whatever prompts you'll be presented with so you can play and get familiar with it. Remember that pretty much everything can be adjusted at a later time.
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#17679 - 09/29/11 01:23 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: alternaut]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Merci.
After all is said and done — I hope — the solution to transferring files is a USB thumbdrive (as you suggest), onto which I copied all of my iMac OS 9 files, awaiting the new iMac for to copy same. All other file transfer suggestions, according to Apple tech support, would be appropriate for Mac OS X to Mac OS X migrations (but not for such from Mac OS 9).
We shall see.

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#17681 - 09/29/11 01:52 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: grelber
It seems to me that connecting two appliances, each plugged into 110v, via sockets/ports which are powered via same, would be like taking an extension cord with two male plugs and plugging it into two wall sockets, blowing/shorting out everything in the house or in this case one or both computers. What am I missing?


Two things. The peripheral ports on the computer aren't power sockets; they're data connection plugs. And the computer itself doesn't run on 110 volts. The power supply steps the wall current down to 12 volts and 5 volts. You could stick your tongue in a USB or FireWire socket with no ill effect (well, to you, anway).

Originally Posted By: grelber
Assuming that I can connect my two computers, what should I see on the screens of each? And how do I physically manipulate files/folders in OS 9 to get them over to the new iMac's OS X? Find them via an icon and drag them from one Desktop to the other?


Depends on how you do it.

The easiest way is to use FireWire target disk mode. Start your old computer in target disk mode. That basically gives it a lobotomy; it turns off the actual computer and makes your computer into just an external hard disk. Plug it in to the new computer. You will see your old computer's hard disk appear on your desktop. Open it and copy files to the new computer's hard disk.

Originally Posted By: grelber
Just as an example: What's an iTunes window? And how would I select the stuff (2 folders, as mentioned earlier) from one system and stick it in another?


The iTunes window is what you see when you run iTunes. You can run iTunes, then open your old compute's hard disk, click on the music files, drag them right into the iTunes window, and let go. That will copy the music onto your new computer.

Originally Posted By: grelber
And someone warned me about something called "permissions", to the effect that every file/document that comes from one machine to another needs to have access permission dealt with individually - which would mean manipulating thousands of files/documents in some way. What's all that about?


Since you're coming from OS 9, you don't need to worry about that. OS 9 doesn't have permissions.

Originally Posted By: grelber
Does the new iMac and/or OS X 10.7 have something like OS 9's Disk First Aid which will fix things in case I do something stupid or perform an "illegal" function or the system crashes?


Yep! It's called Disk Utility.

Originally Posted By: grelber
EDIT #2:
I just searched through Apple Help on my iMac running OS 9 and apparently there is no way to transfer files from it without some other intermediary (such as an external storage device). To say that I'm discouraged by the whole business of trying to upgrade would be understatement to the googol power. I'm about to forget about the whole business and not even bother to take the new one out of the box.


I don't know that that's true. Does oyur old computer have a FireWire jack?
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#17696 - 09/30/11 04:02 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: tacit]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Target disk mode does not exist in Mac OS 9.

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#17697 - 09/30/11 04:24 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Target disk mode does not exist in Mac OS 9.

TDM is not an OS property, it's provided for in a Mac's firmware. Have you tried it?

(FWIW, the Wikipedia link I provided on TDM above shows what looks like an iMac DV SE in TDM.)
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#17698 - 09/30/11 06:19 AM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quoting grelber:

"The new iMac has a FireWire 800 port, whereas my current machine has an older FW port."

If your old iMac supports FireWire it seems likely that it can boot into FW target disk mode.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17717 - 09/30/11 03:30 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Target Disk Mode does work on slot-loading iMacs running OS 9.

I used it a number of times on my Summer 2000 iMac DV. But don't take it from me; here it is from the horse's mouth:

Quote:
Target computers
These models can be used as target computers:
  • iMac (Slot Loading) with Firmware version 2.4 or later
  • iMac (Summer 2000) and all models introduced after July 2000

And if by chance your DV SE is of earlier (1999) vintage and doesn't have Firmware version 2.4 or later, you can always reverse the process and boot the new iMac into Target Disk Mode and do all the dragging and dropping from the familiar comfort of the old one, since the requirements for Host computer are even less demanding.
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#17720 - 09/30/11 05:08 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I can find no reference to TDM on my iMac DV SE and I have no idea where to find firmware version.
Please provide explicit instructions.

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#17722 - 09/30/11 06:13 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
I can find no reference to TDM on my iMac DV SE and I have no idea where to find firmware version.
Please provide explicit instructions.

It will be helpful if you can tell us precisely which model iMac you've got; if you bought it new, telling us when you bought it will probably suffice if you can't do any better. (Telling us your iMac's color will also work as long as it isn't graphite.)

Edit: Your choices are Blueberry, Grape, Strawberry, Tangerine, Lime, and Graphite (1999 model) & Indigo, Ruby, Sage, Snow, and Graphite (2000 model).


Edited by artie505 (09/30/11 06:21 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17723 - 09/30/11 06:46 PM Re: iMac desktops [Re: grelber]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
Please provide explicit instructions.

Start up your G3 iMac by pushing the power-on button while holding the T-key until you see a dark blue screen with a large, 'bouncing' yellow Firewire symbol. Done.

If you do that when it's hooked up to the iMac running Mac OS X, the G3 will show up as a hard disk on the Mac OS X desktop provided the OS X Finder is set to show hard disks (which I believe is the default).

PS, to shut down the iMac in target disk mode, push its power button again.
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