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#16993 - 08/13/11 05:11 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I think what's happening with systemuiserver.plist is this: when you delete the file, a new one is created on your next restart, consisting of simply the NSEnableTSMDocumentWindowLevel entry.

Meanwhile, the actual items displayed on the right side of the menu bar consist of any third-party items you've placed there (whose inclusion in the menu bar is not governed by systemuiserver.plist) and a default set of Apple Menu Extras which varies according to other system components and preferences you've set. (For instance, your default set includes Bluetooth and Time Machine, while mine does not—no doubt because my Mac isn't Bluetooth-equipped, and I have System Preferences -> Time Machine -> Show Time Machine status in the menu bar unchecked; folks with laptops would see a Battery menu, etc.)

Until you make a change to the configuration of Apple Menu Extras, you'll continue to see this nearly-empty plist; once you make such a change, though, all the Apple Menu Extras will show up in the plist. I'm not sure why this is so, but it's not atypical: there are many so-called "hidden" preferences in OS X which don't show up in plists until you change the value of the attribute they control.
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#16994 - 08/13/11 05:48 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Great. Thanks. I'll stop worrying about it.

ryck
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#17003 - 08/13/11 11:36 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
Sorry, ryck, but I'm out of ideas. frown

Why the frown ? I've got a smile because I'm up and running again. Thanks for all your time and help

Sure...my pleasure! smile

Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
After looking at my own menu bar I realized that app related items do not (necessarily?) appear in com.apple.systemuiserver.plist, so Sophos's not being there is not unexpected.

My bad. I should have been clearer. I removed Sophos using the "Remove Sophos" tool provided with by Sophos. However, I am thinking I will pop it back in as it was only a "suspect" and may not have been the cause. No one else in the Forum has reported any Sophos problems.

I followed what you originally posted; I was just answering my own question about why Sophos wasn't included in your original plist.

Let us know how Sophos behaves when you reinstall it.
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#17007 - 08/14/11 01:00 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Meanwhile, the actual items displayed on the right side of the menu bar consist of any third-party items you've placed there (whose inclusion in the menu bar is not governed by systemuiserver.plist) and a default set of Apple Menu Extras which varies according to other system components and preferences you've set.

(OS X 10.6.8) I just moved com.apple.systemuiserver.plist to my Desktop and restarted, and my newly-created (*) plist looked like what you and ryck have posted, but the only right-side icons that appeared were my third-party icons and Spotlight; no "default" Apple icons appeared.

(Edit: (*) The plist wasn't even recreated until I clicked on one of my third-party icons.)


Edited by artie505 (08/14/11 01:18 AM)
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#17032 - 08/15/11 03:39 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Until you make a change to the configuration of Apple Menu Extras, you'll continue to see this nearly-empty plist; once you make such a change, though, all the Apple Menu Extras will show up in the plist. I'm not sure why this is so, but it's not atypical: there are many so-called "hidden" preferences in OS X which don't show up in plists until you change the value of the attribute they control.

We may have a new wrinkle. I have reinstalled Sophos, updated it, and done a restart. After that I entered the two commands into Terminal but the results didn't include the list of Apple Menu items.

Entering defaults read com.apple.systemuiserver got this result:

Last login: Mon Aug 15 04:23:04 on console
user-names-imac:~ username$ defaults read com.apple.systemuiserver
{
"__NSEnableTSMDocumentWindowLevel" = 1;
}
user-names-imac:~ username$



Entering kextstat |grep -v com.apple got this result:

Last login: Mon Aug 15 04:25:05 on ttys000
user-names-imac:~ douglasname$ kextstat |grep -v com.apple
Index Refs Address Size Wired Name (Version) <Linked Against>
129 0 0x36c07000 0x4000 0x3000 com.sophos.kext.sav (7.3.0) <5 4 1>
user-names-imac:~ user inglis$

ryck


Edited by ryck (08/15/11 03:40 AM)
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#17033 - 08/15/11 03:56 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm lost... What icons are on the right hand side of your menu bar right now?
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#17034 - 08/15/11 04:22 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Until you make a change to the configuration of Apple Menu Extras, you'll continue to see this nearly-empty plist...

If you only alter third-party menu "extras" (i.e. Sophos), I don't think the plist will change, since, as I said above, their presence in the menu bar doesn't seem to be controlled by that plist.
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#17036 - 08/15/11 06:15 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
What icons are on the right hand side of your menu bar right now?

In this order - left to right - Sophos, Time Machine, Blue Tooth, Airport, Audio Volume, Calendar/Clock (in 24 hour mode), Spotlight.

ryck
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#17038 - 08/15/11 06:23 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
If you only alter third-party menu "extras" (i.e. Sophos), I don't think the plist will change, since, as I said above, their presence in the menu bar doesn't seem to be controlled by that plist.

Ah (as the light slowly comes on), I guess I misunderstood what was meant by "Until you make a change to the configuration of Apple Menu Extras". Do you have an example of what that might be?

Thanks

ryck

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#17043 - 08/15/11 10:16 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Well, any of the items found in /System/Library/CoreServices/Menu Extras/. You might try, for example, double-clicking on Ink.menu, which will put a pen icon in your menu bar (assuming that menu extra is still present in Snow Leopard). Or try command-dragging the Volume icon out of the menu bar.

If my hypothesis is correct, either of these actions should cause systemuiserver.plist to list all the Apple-provided menu extras you've currently got displayed in the menu bar.
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#17045 - 08/15/11 02:36 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
I removed the Volume Control and restarted. Entering defaults read com.apple.systemuiserver into Terminal confirmed your hypothesis and I can now lay claim to a few more lumens as another light goes on.

Thanks

ryck
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ryck

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#17046 - 08/15/11 03:25 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
I just moved com.apple.systemuiserver.plist to my Desktop and restarted, and my newly-created (*) plist looked like what you and ryck have posted, but the only right-side icons that appeared were my third-party icons and Spotlight; no "default" Apple icons appeared.

Which Apple Menu Extras, if any, do you ordinarily have in your menu bar? Since the volume control, input menu, Time Machine, date and time, Spaces, displays, MobileMe syncing, PPPoE status, Universal Access status, and Fast User Switching menus can all individually be enabled/disabled from within System Preferences, it's possible that what appears when you delete systemuiserver.plist is a default set of icons minus any you've disabled.

All I know is that when I delete the plist, the input menu and Script menu disappear from my menu bar, but the volume control and date and time remain. This leads me to believe that by default, those two items appear in the menu bar. And indeed, a Fast User Switch into my standard account reveals, in addition to the Spotlight icon and Fast User Switching menu, the volume control, date and time, and the Time Machine menu extras.

I've never done anything to the right side of the menu in that account (the Fast User Switching menu appears because that's a universal preference set in an Administrator account); the Time Machine icon appears because that's the default, and in that account, unlike my regular account, its appearance is not disabled in the Time Machine prefpane.
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#17048 - 08/15/11 09:44 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You're obviously correct about a default set of icons, because, after all, the right side of a menu bar is always populated straight out of the box. (If my memory serves me, it's populated with volume, date and time, and Time Machine.)

The only Apple Menu Extras I normally keep in my menu bar are Input menu and (date and) time, and neither reappears on its own after I delete com.apple.systemuiserver.plist and either restart or shut down and start up. Perhaps it's because I've customized date and time so it displays only 12 hour time and seconds (i.e. 1:33:40 at 1:33:40 AM), but neither AM/PM, day, nor date. (I'll assume that your hypothesis about Input menu is correct.)

If you tell me what the default date and time configuration is I can test the possibility that only a maintained default configuration reappears. If not, please tell me what your particular configuration is, and I'll experiment with it.

Edit:
  1. I enabled volume and Time Machine in my menu bar, trashed my plist, restarted, and neither reappeared.
  2. I then Safe Booted...nothing but Spotlight.
  3. I then logged in to my test user account, and BINGO...default set!
OK... So it looks like one of my non-Apple menulets is somehow throttling the default set, MenuMeters/MenuCracker being the most likely candidate.

Got it! I thought it was odd that I didn't get the default set by Safe-Booting after trashing the plist, so I repeated the experiment, took a look in Console, and found that even though MenuMeters (which, by the way, lives at ~/Library/Preference Panes) doesn't load, MenuCracker does!

And that's the story, Jerry... Whew!


Edited by artie505 (08/16/11 01:42 AM)
Edit Reason: Various and sundry
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In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17049 - 08/16/11 01:03 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
ganbustein Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
The quick way to see what your default menubar looks like (or the default for anything else), just log into your Guest account. It always starts with everything set to the default.

com.apple.systemuiserver.plist is one way to populate the menubar at login, but it's not the only way. They can also be added from your login items (System Preferences -> Users & Groups -> Login Items), or as launch agents ({~,,/System}/Library/LaunchAgents), or (rarely) added dynamically by any application you run.

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#17050 - 08/16/11 01:32 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ganbustein]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ganbustein
The quick way to see what your default menubar looks like (or the default for anything else), just log into your Guest account. It always starts with everything set to the default.

com.apple.systemuiserver.plist is one way to populate the menubar at login, but it's not the only way. They can also be added from your login items (System Preferences -> Users & Groups -> Login Items), or as launch agents ({~,,/System}/Library/LaunchAgents), or (rarely) added dynamically by any application you run.

Thanks, but I figured out the former and was aware of the latter before you posted, although my test user or, as the case may be, guest account would not have started at default if MenuMeters lived in /Library/Preference Panes rather than ~/Library/Preference Panes.

But what does {~,,/... mean? I've never seen that convention before.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17051 - 08/16/11 02:25 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

{~,,/System}/Library/LaunchAgents is a shorthand way of saying ~/Library/LaunchAgents, /Library/LaunchAgents, and /System/Library/LaunchAgents.
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#17058 - 08/17/11 12:20 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

{~,,/System}/Library/LaunchAgents is a shorthand way of saying ~/Library/LaunchAgents, /Library/LaunchAgents, and /System/Library/LaunchAgents.

Thanks.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17060 - 08/17/11 03:02 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Sorry, that was a bit terse. Grouping elements within curly brackets that are individually to be treated identically in a larger syntactic structure is a convention in various programming/scripting languages, presumably to promote more compact code.

As an example, if you want a list of the contents of each of the three Library folders on your machine (assuming for the sake of argument that you don't have a /Network/Library to worry about), in Terminal you can simply enter this single command:

ls {~,,/System}/Library
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#17061 - 08/17/11 03:25 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> Sorry, that was a bit terse.

It got the point across, but I do appreciate the clarification. smile

The intent was pretty obvious, but I found the ,, part confusing.

Knowing that it's something I can use in Terminal is additionally helpful.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17066 - 08/17/11 08:00 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: ryck
I removed Sophos using the "Remove Sophos" tool provided with by Sophos. However, I am thinking I will pop it back in as it was only a "suspect" and may not have been the cause. No one else in the Forum has reported any Sophos problems.

New Development

The typical status of my machine, when not in use, is the Log-in window followed by Sleep. Then, either my wife or I awake the machine and log in to our respective accounts.

I noticed earlier this morning that when I logged in the Sophos icon was grey for a while before turning black (its usual colour). Just now I woke the machine and logged in as usual. However, none of the menu bar (either left or right) appeared.

After about 20 seconds or so, the left side of the menu locked up with only two icons, left to right, Sophos and Spotlight. Using Sophos Remove I deleted Sophos. Immediately all icons (left and right) appeared.

Question: I suppose I should restart but is there something I should do first?

ryck

Edit to update information

I have run Permissions Repair (which seemed to go much faster than normal - about 4 minutes compared to 15). Afterward I went to Apple Support and most of the repairs seemed to be those that can be ignored.

However, I did have a couple that I don't recall seeing before:

Permissions differ on "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/AppleVNCServer.bundle/Contents/Support/LockScreen.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/MainMenu.nib", should be drwxr-xr-x , they are -rwxr-xr-x .

Repaired "System/Library/CoreServices/RemoteManagement/AppleVNCServer.bundle/Contents/Support/LockScreen.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/MainMenu.nib".

Yet another edit to update information

Before taking my dog for a walk I forgot to say to my wife "Don't log me out." So I assumed the fact that she did, and I've logged back in successfully, was a good sign....so I did a restart and it was fine. I've run both of the Terminal instructions and they didn't indicate anything except the Apple default stuff. I also ran Preferential Treatment and it said prefs were fine.

I guess I'll leave Sophos in the garage for now.


Edited by ryck (08/17/11 11:50 AM)
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#17083 - 08/19/11 12:00 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I guess I'll leave Sophos in the garage for now.

Does Sophos offer you an option to run it sans menulet?
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#17089 - 08/19/11 08:32 AM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Does Sophos offer you an option to run it sans menulet?

Good question....I don't know but I'll check after I finish running my machine sans Sophos for a while. Maybe another Sophos user knows.

Since the last time I have booted my from Super Duper clone drive and used Disk Utility to repair Permissions. I noticed that it did so without that "lockscreen.app" repair mentioned above.

I then used Disk Warrior (4.3) to fix all files & folders, followed by a directory rebuild.

A curious thing happened this morning just after the login. The desktop, including Dock et cetera, loaded but neither side of the menu bar loaded. After about thirty seconds I clicked the desktop and both sides of the menu bar popped in.

ryck


Edited by ryck (08/19/11 10:21 AM)
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ryck

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#17095 - 08/19/11 03:49 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Since the last time I have booted my from Super Duper clone drive and used Disk Utility to repair Permissions. I noticed that it did so without that "lockscreen.app" repair mentioned above.

I then used Disk Warrior (4.3) to fix all files & folders, followed by a directory rebuild.

A curious thing happened this morning just after the login. The desktop, including Dock et cetera, loaded but neither side of the menu bar loaded. After about thirty seconds I clicked the desktop and both sides of the menu bar popped in.

ryck

1. Until Apple plagued us with all the "of no consequence" stuff we deal with now, that's the way Repair Permissions worked; it fixed stuff and that stuff remained fixed.

2. I believe that DiskWarrior's "Check All files & Folders" functionality does little, if anything, more than Preferential Treatment does... Confirmation?

3. This thread is too long to reread, so I'll just ask whether you've cleared and repopulated /Apps/Sys Prefs > Users > Login Items during the course of this ordeal? (It may also pay you to rerun the Combo again.)
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#17099 - 08/19/11 05:09 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: artie505]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
I believe that DiskWarrior's "Check All files & Folders" functionality does little, if anything, more than Preferential Treatment does... Confirmation?

Well, you have me on that one. I assume that is DW doing something of value based on what it says it checks and corrects. For example it checks "resource forks". As a person who wouldn't know a resource fork from a barbecue fork that sounds beneficial to me.

Originally Posted By: artie505
....so I'll just ask whether you've cleared and repopulated /Apps/Sys Prefs > Users > Login Items during the course of this ordeal?

No. I looked in and there are three items, none of which I put there, so I assume there is some automaticity involved. Does repopulate mean I should remove them all and restart.....with the expectation that they will return automatically ....like plists?

ryck


Edited by ryck (08/19/11 05:09 PM)
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ryck

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#17100 - 08/19/11 05:38 PM Re: Kernel Panic? [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
I believe that DiskWarrior's "Check All files & Folders" functionality does little, if anything, more than Preferential Treatment does... Confirmation?

Well, you have me on that one. I assume that is DW doing something of value based on what it says it checks and corrects. For example it checks "resource forks". As a person who wouldn't know a resource fork from a barbecue fork that sounds beneficial to me.

The empirical strikes back!™ Again... blush I just took a look and found that DW's "Checking property list files" functionality duplicates PT's functionality, but the rest of "Check All Files & Folders" goes beyond it.

Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
....so I'll just ask whether you've cleared and repopulated /Apps/Sys Prefs > Users > Login Items during the course of this ordeal?

No. I looked in and there are three items, none of which I put there, so I assume there is some automaticity involved. Does repopulate mean I should remove them all and restart.....with the expectation that they will return automatically ....like plists?

ryck

I can't answer without knowing which three items you've got in there, because iTunes, for instance, places iTunes Helper automatically, and some other apps act similarly.

Since Login Items do not regenerate, I don't want to tell you to clear something that I may not be able to tell you how to restore.
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