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#15923 - 06/07/11 11:35 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: alternaut]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: alternaut
Originally Posted By: artie505
...we non-cable luddites will be stuck cooling our heels for hours...

How about people relying on slow satellite or (dare I even remind you) dialup connections? For these and similar concerns, check out today's entries in MacInTouch's Apple Reader Report.

Not to mention Rita and others who, like her, are hobbled by capped bandwidth... Aaargh! frown

I didn't forget about non-DSL users, rather I posted kinda postulating a "threshold d/l speed" that would be the dividing line between our being able to acquire "hard" media or not, with the low and high ends being "givens," but with DSL users possibly being stuck in some sort of middle-ground, grey area.

Actually, since I've got both an iBook G4 with a built-in modem and access to a friend's dial-up account (maintained to perpetuate an e-mail address) I've been wondering if I'll be able to spoof a dial-up connection if it comes to that.

In closing, though... I think the most important piece of info in your linked doc is Burning A Lion Boot Disc!
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#15924 - 06/08/11 02:44 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I note that certain language on Get Lion in July. Only from the Mac App Store.—including that page title—hints that Lion will be available, eventually, in a more traditional form:

Originally Posted By: www.apple.com/macosx/how-to-buy/
Just make sure you have what you need to get your hands on Lion the minute it’s available...

...To upgrade on day one:


Cynics among us might theorize that the point of not being more forthcoming about other options is to sell a bunch of copies of Snow Leopard in June, but it's also possible that Apple is simply allowing the early birds to skip the manufacturing/packaging/distribution lag between Golden Master and retail disc. (Since no date in July is specified, that probably means we're not quite at the Golden Master stage yet.)

In any event, it's clearly in Apple's interest to drive as many Lion purchasers as possible to the Mac App Store: a) to realize the Snow Leopard sales from folks running Leopard on Lion-worthy hardware; b) to reduce production/distribution costs of physical media as much as possible; and c) to maximize the PR value of 100,000 (or however many) sales on day one! all without leaving your home! or even having to enter credit card data!
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#15930 - 06/08/11 09:41 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
As I understand it if you buy a piece of software from MAS or the Applke Store that same software may be installed on up to five "authorized" devices. From experience with applications purchased on MAS you can install or re-install an unlimited number of times on any given "authorized" devoice.

I discovered this in the very early days of the App Store when I was having difficulty getting some MAS apps to installl and run properly. There is only one way to enable a reinsall which is to uninstall the app, but once it is uninstalled the App Store will happily install any app you have paid for.
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#16027 - 06/13/11 07:20 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
"4 gig. "in-place". So i guess it's not a dmg that we can speedily apply to other Macs in-house. Each individual Mac will need to do its own 4-gig download/upgrade."

Apparently there is a hidden .dmg. See this:

http://macs.about.com/od/macoperatingsystems/qt/Create-A-Bootable-Copy-Of-Os-X-Lion.htm




Edited by RHV (06/13/11 07:22 PM)

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#16031 - 06/13/11 09:43 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: RHV]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: RHV

What fun.
THANKS!


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#16032 - 06/13/11 11:51 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
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#16040 - 06/14/11 08:25 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
No I saw it (and lots of others like it). I just preferred the wording in the site I referred to.

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#16043 - 06/14/11 09:52 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: RHV]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: RHV
No I saw it (and lots of others like it). I just preferred the wording in the site I referred to.

Probably why my post was directed at Hal rather than at you. wink

Edit: Sorry for the double post.
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#16049 - 06/14/11 02:47 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
I goofed Artie. I didn't read carefully. Your "missed" comment was directed at Hal. I thought at me. So I responded to you. Sorry.

This whole episode is kinda funny. Apple gave us some early info on Lion -- a kind of a tease, since a major change in several ways is coming from Apple this July. So we were all scrambling around trying to supplant the information tease. And there's been some modest success in that scrambling. Still lots is unknown. July will tell the whole story. I've never been as interested in a Mac OS X update as I have in this one. I'm going to have trash my other iMac -- a well working PPC job with Leopard on it --to get Lion on both.

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#16050 - 06/14/11 03:12 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: RHV]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> I'm going to have trash my other iMac -- a well working PPC job with Leopard on it --to get Lion on both.

Out of curiosity, then, why didn't you trash it to get Snow Leopard on "both(?)?"

I'm with you on the interest...waiting to see how things play out and thinking about what configuration of Macs and partitions I want to end up with...maybe even save my Panther iBook for nothing other than Classic Environment and OED2. confused
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#16056 - 06/14/11 06:39 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
What I meant is: One can't put snowy on my 2004 PPC iMac. So I'll trash it (too slow anyway) and buy another intel iMac. I already have a late 2009 intel iMac.

I've bought a lot of Macs in my time. Bought one of the first 100,000 Macs in 1984 -- the guys all signed their names on the inside of the back panel.

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#16147 - 06/18/11 06:52 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: dkmarsh]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh
Cynics among us might theorize that the point of not being more forthcoming about other options is to sell a bunch of copies of Snow Leopard in June, but it's also possible that Apple is simply allowing the early birds to skip the manufacturing/packaging/distribution lag between Golden Master and retail disc. (Since no date in July is specified, that probably means we're not quite at the Golden Master stage yet.)

In any event, it's clearly in Apple's interest to drive as many Lion purchasers as possible to the Mac App Store: a) to realize the Snow Leopard sales from folks running Leopard on Lion-worthy hardware; b) to reduce production/distribution costs of physical media as much as possible; and c) to maximize the PR value of 100,000 (or however many) sales on day one! all without leaving your home! or even having to enter credit card data!


This weird pdf (try searching it for "application") seems to be hosted on macrumors.com:
"OS X Lion for Business and Education" <-PDF

It seems to indicate that multiple-installs won't necessitate multiple downloads (at least for business and/or edu folks buying in bulk), and it talks about some "Install Mac OS X Lion" program in the /Applications folder (and the Dock).

I tried to google for some similar info at apple.com, but no luck.

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#16225 - 06/20/11 06:11 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
RHV Offline


Registered: 09/19/09
Loc: Winnipeg, Kenora, Palm Springs...
As for a single user installing Lion, I'm guessing that this will be pretty much on target:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1173920

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#16231 - 06/21/11 07:43 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
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#16453 - 07/08/11 11:29 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: Hal Itosis]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
For those of you who don't like Apple's App Store concept I don't think Apple is worried since they have already passed 15,000,000,000 (fifteen Billion) apps downloaded mark.
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#16463 - 07/09/11 08:55 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: joemikeb]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
For those of you who don't like Apple's App Store concept I don't think Apple is worried since they have already passed 15,000,000,000 (fifteen Billion) apps downloaded mark.


Oh I'm sure it's just a passing fad...
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#16470 - 07/10/11 10:38 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
For those of you who don't like Apple's App Store concept I don't think Apple is worried since they have already passed 15,000,000,000 (fifteen Billion) apps downloaded mark.

Excerpted from Number of MAC Users | Number Of | How Many:

Quote:
W3Counter’s latest Global Web Stats, published in May 2010, report that the Mac OS X operating system has a 7.83% market share. Taking into account that there must be about 1.2 billion personal computers in use (according to Forrester Research, Inc.), the Mac user population is currently about 93.96 million. In three years, the number of Mac users has nearly doubled.

This fact is verified on : June 24, 2010. All facts are verified every 6 month after the last modification.

Even if the number of Mac users has doubled during the past year, the 188 million users would have to have d/l'ed an average of 80 apps each to reach the 15 billion d/l threshold.

Color me skeptical. shocked (150 million seems like a far more realistic number.)

Have you got a source for your number?

Edit 2: Or does that number include sales of the iApp store (in which case it still seems huge), which would put it in a whole different perspective?


Edited by artie505 (07/11/11 02:04 AM)
Edit Reason: Cleanup
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16471 - 07/11/11 02:32 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Actually, it appears to me that the 15 billion figure refers only to iOS applications: Apple - Press Info - Apple’s App Store Downloads Top 15 Billion.

Regardless, I think joemikeb's point is that the "app store" concept has proven to accelerate rather than hinder software sales.
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#16473 - 07/11/11 04:58 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
another source has a similar number for Mac computers worldwide - over 80M
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/06/prweb4074264.htm


Edited by macnerd10 (07/11/11 04:59 PM)
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#16474 - 07/12/11 01:00 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Actually, it appears to me that the 15 billion figure refers only to iOS applications: Apple - Press Info - Apple’s App Store Downloads Top 15 Billion.

Regardless, I think joemikeb's point is that the "app store" concept has proven to accelerate rather than hinder software sales.

I'm not all that certain that the iApp Store's success can be extrapolated to the Mac App Store for several reasons...
  • The iApp Store was "present at the creation" and, rather than beginning life competing with pre-existing solutions, began it as the only game in town.
    space
  • I posted a while back that my personal observation has been that friends who don't run a single 3rd party app or utility on their Macs have gone wild with iApps, and that appears to be supported by this CNN ( tongue ) article that tells us that "The average iOS device owner will download 83 apps in 2011 [....]" On the other hand, I doubt that any, other than a very few in-depth, hard-core Mac users are running that much 3rd party stuff in total, let alone d/l'ing anywhere near that much in a single year. (Emphasis added)
    space
  • The same article also tells us that "82% of the apps in Apple's store are free. The 18% that users have to pay for have an ASP of $1.44," and I suspect that the 82% and the $1.44 are significantly higher and lower, respectively, than their Mac App Store equivalents.
Accordingly, while I'm not suggesting that the MAS will be anything other than another successful Apple venture, I do wonder whether it can come close to mirroring the iApp Store's success.

I suggest a poll, the results of which may be telling, asking FTM posters how many 3rd party apps, i.e. apps that weren't present on their device out of the box, they're running on their Macs as opposed to how many they're running on their iPhones (if they've got an iPhone). Free v "for pay" would be interesting to know, as would total cost, but I suspect that those numbers may be beyond many people's ability to produce.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#16475 - 07/12/11 04:31 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: artie505
...this CNN ( tongue ) article that tells us that "The average iOS device owner will download 83 apps in 2011 [....]

..."82% of the apps in Apple's store are free. The 18% that users have to pay for have an ASP of $1.44..."

By my math, that mean the average iOS device owner will spend (.18 x 83 x 1.44=) $21.51 on applications this year. If your friends were representative of Mac owners as a whole (not a point I'd cede without more scientific corroboration, but that's a different issue), then the $21.51 a year they'd have to average in Mac App Store purchases for that outlet to maintain the same revenue per user ratio as the [iOS] App Store doesn't seem to be much of a stretch.

Since the App Store infrastructure (iTunes, Apple ID/credit card database, developer revenue sharing model, etc.) is already in place, the startup cost to Apple of deploying the Mac App Store is pretty much just the cost of developing the Mac App Store application.

Let's not forget that the iPhone and iPod Touch sold extremely well prior to the introduction of the App Store, which strongly suggests that the habit of purchasing iOS apps was acquired after folks already had meaningful relationships with their iOS devices. I suspect a similar dynamic is already underway with the Mac App Store.
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#16497 - 07/13/11 11:18 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Since my post addressed Apple's crowing about the 15 billion d/l's, not the revenue they've generated, you response is pretty much non-responsive.

And a history of people "running amok" in a mostly fee, and otherwise cheap, candy store does not suggest that they'll do the same in a relatively pricey department store.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#16506 - 07/13/11 03:02 PM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
dkmarsh Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Quote:
Since my post addressed Apple's crowing about the 15 billion d/l's, not the revenue they've generated, you response is pretty much non-responsive.

Actually, your post expressed doubts about the ability of the Mac App Store to duplicate the iOS App Store's success:

Quote:
I'm not all that certain that the iApp Store's success can be extrapolated to the Mac App Store...

Apparently, defining "success" in financial terms is an unorthodox position to take in regard to an entity with "Store" in its name.
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#16563 - 07/18/11 02:44 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: dkmarsh]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Quote:
Since my post addressed Apple's crowing about the 15 billion d/l's, not the revenue they've generated, you response is pretty much non-responsive.

Actually, your post expressed doubts about the ability of the Mac App Store to duplicate the iOS App Store's success:

Quote:
I'm not all that certain that the iApp Store's success can be extrapolated to the Mac App Store...

Apparently, defining "success" in financial terms is an unorthodox position to take in regard to an entity with "Store" in its name.

You took a big swing at your own bad pitch with your sarcasm bat, and you missed...

...and what you missed is the fact that nobody other than you has injected the notion of financial success into this discussion: Apple's press release trumpeted 15 billion d/l's, not their financial impact, and I addressed only those 15 billion d/l's.

Originally Posted By: Apple - Press Info
"In just three years, the revolutionary App Store has grown to become the most exciting and successful software marketplace the world has ever seen,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. “Thank you to all of our amazing developers who have filled it with over 425,000 of the coolest apps and to our over 200 million iOS users for surpassing 15 billion downloads."

The inference I draw from Apple's press release is that the iOS App Store was a "proof-of-concept."

Apple, in its wisdom, realized that it could make big bucks selling software if the buying process could be elevated to the "Let's go down to the mall and go shopping" level, and the iOS App Store has presumably achieved that goal. Its roughly 15 million d/l's per day since its inception and projected 83 d/l's per user in 2011 loudly proclaim that people are not only going shopping...they're doing it regularly, if not frequently, and the assumption that the iOS App Store's 82% free and the rest cheap price structure has been a major contributing factor is not much of a stretch.

Now, having ascertained that people will shop for software, Apple is hoping they'll be as free with their money as they are with their time and that meaningful financial success will follow, but with the Mac App Store being at the focus of that hope...achieving the financial success the iOS App Store has not and never will achieve with its present price structure.
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#16564 - 07/18/11 06:00 AM Re: Downloading Lion (OS 10.7) [Re: artie505]
MacManiac Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
I just re-viewed the June 6 WWDC keynote and one of the comments that seemed most cogent was about how software ISN'T Apple's key focus, but rather how important software (and a huge bunch of dedicated third-party software developers) are viewed in supporting the HARDWARE that Apple produces....I can't quote it directly, but it was almost a throwaway line during Steve Jobs' closing comments.

....or maybe I was just hearing more than was said....

Regardless, it makes perfect sense to develop a mechanism to funnel quality (vetted) software through a single point source if your goal is to continue to deliver more hardware.....if it were solely the profit to be made on software distribution alone that was the driving factor, then the App Store model would most likely be quite different.
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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn