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#15728 - 05/26/11 08:03 PM Some cache wont clear
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
One of my favorite software is Max Bulk Mailer.
ON a new blast, for some reason, old images are showing, even though I've swapped out the image jpeg.
The developer says he is using the Safari webkit.
I emptied safaris cache (don't even use Safari anymore)
Ran Cocktail, full cache clear on that software.
Even deleted the safari cache in preferences, Cache folder, no luck.

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#15729 - 05/26/11 09:34 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
When you sent out the email, did it have the picture embedded inside the email, or did it load the picture from a Web site?
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#15734 - 05/27/11 08:52 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: tacit]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
thanks Tacit.
For the actual email blast, the images are hosted on my website.
The blast test came in fine and correct with the new image.

But it's the preview in Max Bulk Mail which is the issue.

It's disconcerting to see in your current preview, the image from last years blast.

Any idea how to clear this cache, wherever it is?

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#15735 - 05/27/11 01:07 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I don't know anything about that particular program, sorry!
_________________________
Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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#15755 - 05/28/11 12:53 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: tacit]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
thanks Tacit! You don't need to know about the program to help.
The developer knows the program inside and out and cannot tell me why the cache is stuck on my computer.
HE said he uses Safari tookit -- whatever that means.

This is from my help ticket with him:

To developer:

I duplicated a max blast. Changed some text and swapped in a new image (jpeg)
everything looks great and tests fine. But for some reason the image in the preview within max shows the old image, even though that image was deleted off the server!

Kevs

MaxBulk Mailer uses the Apple Web Kit as Safari. I guess it is a cache problem. Yes but MaxBulk Mailer uses the Apple Web Kit as Safari and the only explanation is some cache somewhere. When you don't see in the preview what is intended, usually something older, it is because of a cache. MaxBulk Mailer doesn't use any but Web Kit does.



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#15834 - 06/01/11 12:43 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Keys, I have been following this thread and had nothing to contribute, but at your request I took another look at it.

Like Tacit I am unfamiliar with the product you are using and the guess about it being a cache problem is as good as anything I can come up with. When I was earning my bread and butter as a software design engineer I ocassionally saw similar problems caused by failure to do garbage collection in the code — essentially failure to flush a memory cache internal to an application — or an incorrect API (Application Program Interface) call possibly to to the webkit. But without access to the application source code and potentially a lot of debugging time that will have to remain as speculation or to be more accurate a wild guess.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#15837 - 06/01/11 05:35 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
thanks Joe! oh well, I'll email developer I tried.

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#15986 - 06/11/11 03:00 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
You're a developer, so perhaps you can clarify this:

> MaxBulk Mailer uses the Apple Web Kit as Safari. I guess it is a cache problem. Yes but MaxBulk Mailer uses the Apple Web Kit as Safari and the only explanation is some cache somewhere. When you don't see in the preview what is intended, usually something older, it is because of a cache. MaxBulk Mailer doesn't use any but Web Kit does.

I know nothing about either developing apps or WebKit, but it just does not seem likely to me that a developer does not know where his app's "stuff" is cached.

Is it actually possible that MaxBulk Mailer just "throws" "stuff" at WebKit which deals with it according to its own secret protocols or, as seems more likely, does WebKit handle "stuff" as instructed by the apps with which it interacts (if that's a correct word in any sense)?

Thanks.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#15992 - 06/11/11 08:24 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I know nothing about either developing apps or WebKit, but it just does not seem likely to me that a developer does not know where his app's "stuff" is cached.

Is it actually possible that MaxBulk Mailer just "throws" "stuff" at WebKit which deals with it according to its own secret protocols or, as seems more likely, does WebKit handle "stuff" as instructed by the apps with which it interacts (if that's a correct word in any sense)?

OS X and iOS provide developers with literally thousands of Application Program Interfaces (a.k.a. APIs) that provide immense power and functionality to developer applications. Functions such as creating windows on the desktop; accepting keyboard, mouse, trackpad input; rendering screen images from HTML, CSS, Javascript; providing internet access; etc., etc., etc. All the applicaton developer needs to know is the API call and what parameters are needed to perform the task and what parameters to access to obtain the results of that call. There are numersous advantages to this scheme including:
  • Each developer does not have to "reinvent the wheel" by writing extensive code to handle common functions.
  • It dramatically reduces the opportunity for error in the applications because much, even most, of the finicky stuff is handled by proven code in the OS
  • It contributes to a common "look and feel" for all applications
  • It dramitacally reduces the possibility for applications interfering with one another or with the OS
  • The application "footprint" on the hard drive and in memory is generally a fraction of what it would be if all the functionality were resident in the app itself
  • Applications are a lot easier to develop and therefore can be profitably sold at mucb lower prices
  • It makes a substantial contribution to Apple's mantra that "It just works"

A side effect of these extensive APIs is that is entirely possible to develop good applications with little or no knowledge of what is going on under the hood. Think of it as the developer's version of "It just works." While information on the specific code used in these APIs (what you are calling protocols) is not always available, how they work and what they do is available to anyone who is a registered Apple Developer (even at the free level) and has the time and patience to rummage through hundreds or even thousands of pages of documentation. Although there are some really bright and well informed guys and gals developing applications for OS X and iOS, Apple has made the entry point easy enoough that I would venture a substantial portion of those developers do not have the background to comprehend how those APIs work and could care less.

So it is entirely possible, even likely, that a given developer has little or no idea where webkit puts "stuff" or how it works internally. No matter what you think of this, trust me, you do not want to go back to the bad old days of software development where everyone did their own thing. By the way like almost everything in OS X and iOS, webkit and its associated APIs, is an open source product used by lots of developers other than Apple.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#15996 - 06/11/11 09:14 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks guys, not sure the deal. the issue still persist. The developer says he has only heard of this issue one other time in 10 years. I can solve it by renaming future jpges, but I was hoping to just inset new image with same name -- but alas, the old image still shows in his software.

(I even could keep same name, and verify through email test, but just wont see the accurate new image)

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#16000 - 06/11/11 11:44 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Great post... Thanks! smile

I grew up taking things apart just so I could see how they were put together, and the concept of using "prefabs" without ever knowing what they're made of or how they work is anathema to me.

Edit: But I certainly get both your point and the point of the whole setup.


Edited by artie505 (06/11/11 01:30 PM)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16008 - 06/12/11 05:54 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505
I grew up taking things apart just so I could see how they were put together, and the concept of using "prefabs" without ever knowing what they're made of or how they work is anathema to me.

Edit: But I certainly get both your point and the point of the whole setup.

I understand your unease, but when you are dealing with systems containing hundreds of thousands of lines of code written in a style that is intentionally designed to make the internals invisible (ie. Object Oriented) it quickly begins to make a lot of sense.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#16055 - 06/14/11 05:04 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
I grew up taking things apart just so I could see how they were put together, and the concept of using "prefabs" without ever knowing what they're made of or how they work is anathema to me.

Edit: But I certainly get both your point and the point of the whole setup.

I understand your unease, but when you are dealing with systems containing hundreds of thousands of lines of code written in a style that is intentionally designed to make the internals invisible (ie. Object Oriented) it quickly begins to make a lot of sense.

Can't argue with that!

Now, back to troubleshooting... This thread, which apparently deals with a cache issue, has come this far without anybody having suggested that kevs clear caches, and in that regard I'll ask which utility would you, and everybody else, recommended for clearing some unknown cache, somewhere, possibly/probably a component of WebKit?

"applejack AUTO" comes to mind, but I've never investigated its functionality in depth, and I've got zero knowledge of the other 3rd party utilities...OnyX, Cocktail, Snow Leopard Cache Cleaner, etc.

Further, there are a skebillion caches in an OS X installation, and even if I were 100% familiar with all of the utilities I still wouldn't know whether any of them cleared the cache at issue.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16063 - 06/15/11 05:33 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
The utility I would probably use is Tinkertool System (the shareware product not the freeware Tinkertool) as it seems to offer more control over what caches are deleted. But, I would not guarantee it, or any other product, would delete all caches.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#16073 - 06/15/11 10:40 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The utility I would probably use is Tinkertool System (the shareware product not the freeware Tinkertool) as it seems to offer more control over what caches are deleted. But, I would not guarantee it, or any other product, would delete all caches.

Thanks... Ball's now in kevs's court.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16092 - 06/16/11 10:14 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I've used Cocktails clear caches, no improvement with this micro issue thanks.

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#16094 - 06/16/11 02:43 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
I've used Cocktails clear caches, no improvement with this micro issue thanks.

You missed the point, kevs... Nobody knows which particular cache is at issue (and Cocktail is not the most robust of the various cache clearing utilities), which is why I asked joemike et al which utility may have the best chance of clearing the apparently obscure cache you're having your problem with.

If you're really interested in bringing this issue to a close, you ought to give TinkerTool System a shot. ("You can download the product and fully test it for a limited time before you decide to purchase an unrestricted usage license.")
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16104 - 06/16/11 05:11 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
ok Art, downloaded Tinker tool, where is the cache delete there? Can't find it. thanks.

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#16110 - 06/16/11 10:12 PM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
dkmarsh Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

From TinkerTool System Release 2: Details (scroll down to "Features in Detail"): The features marked with an asterisk (*) below are available without any restrictions even if TinkerTool System runs in demo mode.

None of the cache-related functions is marked with an asterisk, which suggests that they may not be available in demo mode.
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#16120 - 06/17/11 06:29 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: dkmarsh]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Are you sure you downloaded TinkerTool System 2 and not the freeware TinkerTool? In the TinkerTool System 2 main menu the top row of icons is labeled "System Maintenance" the second icon from the left looks like a blue recycle bin and is labeled Caches. Click on that icon and there are three tabs
  1. Application-Related caches
  2. Font Caches
  3. Startup Driver Cache
Under the first two there are multiple options for caches that are to be deleted. The options are pretty self-explanatory but if you have more questions TinkerTool System Help has detailed explanations of each.

SInce I have registered copies of TinkerTool System 2 installed on all my Macs, I don't know which, if any, of the functions are disabled in the trial version.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#16125 - 06/17/11 09:01 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Thanks Joe, DK,
this is what I have now:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/screenshot20110617at959.jpg/

If there is a better version, do you have a download link? I think I got this from their website, so I'm bit puzzled....

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#16126 - 06/17/11 09:05 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
Thanks Joe, DK,
this is what I have now:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/screenshot20110617at959.jpg/

If there is a better version, do you have a download link? I think I got this from their website, so I'm bit puzzled....

That is not TinkerTool System, to which I linked.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#16127 - 06/17/11 11:45 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
That image is TinkerTool not TinkerTool System. The download for TinkerTool System is here.
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joemikeb • moderator

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#16128 - 06/17/11 11:55 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: joemikeb]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Ok got it and it worked, great call guys!
Just checked everything in cache boxes -- 4 of them did the reboot, problem solved (until it comes back...)

Any reason to keep/ use Cocktail? Seems Tinker tool more robust correct?

Cocktail runs those basic scripts and does a disk permission, and does say it clears systems, user and internet cache, but it did not solve it as Tinker did

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#16133 - 06/18/11 08:17 AM Re: Some cache wont clear [Re: kevs]
joemikeb Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
I have Cocktail, OnyX, MacPilot, and TinkerTool System. And at any given point in time for any given situation I may use any one of the four. However, each has its strengths and weaknesses.
  • Cocktail is the only one of the bunch that can be set to run and perform specified tasks automatically. I used to run several things such as permission repair every week using Cocktail, but that began to seem unnecessary and I no longer use the automated functionality of Cocktail. Others will certainly differ with my current practice -- it is most a matter of personal taste and opinion.
  • OnyX has the undeniable advantage of being FREE.
  • MacPilot has a growing list of "Tools" such as rebuilding the Launch Services database but it lacks features offered in most of the other utility apps mentioned. MacPilot's primary usefulness is providing access to over 1,000 otherwise hidden preference settings in almost every OS X app as well as the system itself. I am continually amzed by the number and variety of hiddes preferences in MacPilot.
  • TinkerTool System offers configuration and tuning tools not otherwise available in other apps as well as a tool for creating and managing Access Control Lists which is seldom needed but invaluable when it is needed. As I mentioned before, I find TinkerTool System offers more fine tuning options than others and has become the utility I go to first when I want to do something. But that is a matter of personal taste and others can and will disagree with me on that.
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