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#12928 - 11/25/10 11:45 PM Shame on almost everybody!!!
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
[rant]

As part of his response to my questioning the possibility of a Safari Extension that I, and, I think, others, would find useful the developer of SnapBack (with whom I've got an excellent working relationship and whose word I unhesitatingly take at face value) responded

Quote:
And BTW, if it was, I don't believe it would be lucrative, to be honest. At this point my SnapBack page got more than 50,000 hits, but so far I've received less than $30 in donations.

(Emphasis added) and that calls for a strong statement...

Donationware is not free(ware) (!!!) as it is so often misrepresented by both d/l hosting websites and posters, and if you take a coupl'a minutes to visit the websites of the developers of every piece of "freeware" you think you're running you'll find that a (possibly significant) percentage of them include a more or less prominently displayed, but sometimes buried, donation solicitation.

The quoted statistic paints a shameful and disgusting picture of computer users' (in general, I suspect) lack of appreciation for the generally considerable, frequently hair-tearing and sleep-loss causing, efforts of developers and lack of respect for their solicitations.

So, please, people... Take the time, make the effort, search for those donation links, and support those who invest their time to make our computing experience a happier one!

Give 'em a buck, or whatever you can afford, to show your appreciation. (If a developer's donation page is set up to accept a fixed amount that you think is either excessive or beyond your means contact hir; I know it's possible for such stuff to be changed, because a developer who was set up to take euros sent me a link that enabled me to make my donation in dollars.)

[/rant]
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#12932 - 11/26/10 03:10 AM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
....support those who invest their time to make our computing experience a happier one!

I agree with you 100%. It's really simple. The developer is working on a trust basis - trusting that visitors will have a look at the software, take it out for a test drive, and toss something into the kitty if they choose to use it.

It's a little analogous to the small corner store. Everyone wants one in their community, but they drive by it on the way to the big box stores. Then, one day the corner store disappears. The everyone bemoans the loss having forgot that, in order for the store to exist, it actually needed to get a bit of business.

If Freeware developers don't get support they too, like the corner store, will disappear and the community will be poorer.

ryck
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ryck

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#12953 - 11/26/10 09:32 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Carbon Copy Cloner, my favorite bit of donationware, is so useful to me (and has saved my bacon so many times) that I send the developer a donation each time it gets me out of a jam.

I don't think that donationware is really a very good business model, honestly. Much as I hate to say it, I think that the best course for developers to take is to release software with some features disabled, and then enable them for registered (eg, paying) users.
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#12954 - 11/27/10 01:20 AM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: tacit
Carbon Copy Cloner, my favorite bit of donationware, is so useful to me (and has saved my bacon so many times) that I send the developer a donation each time it gets me out of a jam.

I don't think that donationware is really a very good business model, honestly. Much as I hate to say it, I think that the best course for developers to take is to release software with some features disabled, and then enable them for registered (eg, paying) users.

Interesting that you mentioned Carbon Copy Cloner. Mike Bombich is the coolest developer I've ever run across, which I say because of the manner in which he treats CCC users as respects ad banners.

In my case, I consider Butler so integral to my Mac experience that I've upped my donation on occasion to keep it in line with amounts I've paid for less important apps.

I basically agree with your feelings about donationware, but I think it would be a better, perhaps even viable, business model if the d/l websites would list it as such, rather than as freeware; their insistence on not doing so necessitates users spending time and exerting effort to determine whether the apps they've d/l'ed are free or donationware, and searching for solicitations for money is hardly a "Let's go for it!" endeavor.

Further, and this brings us full-circle to the Safari Extension that inspired my rant, "Apple only accepts free stuff on their Extensions Gallery" (Quoting Philippe Martin, developer of SnapBack), and although donationware is apparently permissible (Ref. AdBlock for Safari's "AdBlock Options" page), a great many, perhaps even the vast majority of, Extensions and their updates are d/l'ed and installed (via Safari > Prefs > Extensions) with no reference, let alone redirection of users, to their developers' websites and solicitations.

No... In this instance I think the onus is on Apple to recognize that Extension developers are no more eleemosynary than is the corporation itself...to enable them to solicit donations "in the light of day."


Edited by artie505 (11/27/10 03:47 AM)
Edit Reason: Cleanup
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#13024 - 11/29/10 04:42 AM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
dboh Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
The only times I've ever used donationware have been when I used fonts from a CD I had found at a computer store. It was more than 6 years old, yet I sent a check every time I used one of the fonts. Once, I even got a thank-you note back from the designer!

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#13073 - 11/30/10 02:49 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
With all due respect (I also always donate if I use donatioware), these guys could make it shareware. What's wrong with that?
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#13075 - 11/30/10 03:37 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: macnerd10]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: macnerd10
With all due respect [(*)], these guys could make it shareware. What's wrong with that?

As far as the present instance, the one that prompted me to post, goes, Apple does not allow listings in the Safari Extensions Gallery to be shareware.

And as far as 3rd party stuff in general goes, shareware means more restricted distribution and implies a more commercial attitude on the part of the developer.

Many developers are not interested in being entrepreneurs as much as they are interested in helping the general body of Mac users and maybe clearing a few bucks for their time and effort, and the donationware model enables them to do that at users' discretion rather than at a fixed price that many users might find beyond their means and/or inclination.

Part of the problem is that an apparently significant percentage of users is disinclined, and, I suspect, another apparently significant percentage simply does not know that they're dealing with shareware, because it was listed as freeware.

(*) > I also always donate if I use donatioware

You're one of the gentlemen who led me to say "almost everybody." smile
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#13076 - 11/30/10 03:58 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: artie505
Part of the problem is that an apparently significant percentage of users is disinclined...

That's for sure....and it's beyond me. Once, when looking for user reviews, I recall a case (don't remember the software) where some people were angry that a previously free piece of software now had a nominal charge of five dollars. A measly five bucks!

It's not unreasonable to think that anyone who can afford a computer and its operating costs can spring for five dollars. Consider the guy in your SnapBack example. I'm sure if he got only $2 for every hit he'd be ecstatic.

ryck
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ryck

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#13077 - 11/30/10 04:48 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: ryck]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: ryck
Originally Posted By: artie505
Part of the problem is that an apparently significant percentage of users is disinclined...

That's for sure....and it's beyond me. Once, when looking for user reviews, I recall a case (don't remember the software) where some people were angry that a previously free piece of software now had a nominal charge of five dollars. A measly five bucks!

It's not unreasonable to think that anyone who can afford a computer and its operating costs can spring for five dollars. Consider the guy in your SnapBack example. I'm sure if he got only $2 for every hit he'd be ecstatic.

ryck

Actually, Philippe's "happiness threshold" is only $1 per d/l.

I've also seen freeware, which may or may not have been donationware, become shareware, and
  1. The switch was likely a developer reaction to making either no or virtually no money from a huge number of d/l's.
  2. The loudest protesters were likely those with the deepest pockets.
But I disagree with your "afford a computer" reasoning, because many people can barely afford to have bought the used computer they own, are running old operating systems because they can't afford the upgrades, and perhaps can't even afford to spend $1, let lone $5, for functionality that is nice for either free or "free" but which they'd live without if they had to pay for it.

But that doesn't give them the right to feel either entitled or betrayed. (OK... There is MainMenu and its ilk.)
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#13098 - 12/01/10 10:32 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Sometimes it is funny. One German guy (forgot who) had a wish list for donations. So I sent him a video cassette of some old movie through Amazon. Apparently, he was happy grin
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Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#13099 - 12/01/10 10:33 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
On the other hand, even old Macs that are free of viruses, etc. are NOT accepted by many major charities. Go figure.
_________________________
Alex
3.1 GHz 13" MacBook Pro 2015, 8 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, TimeWarner Cable
2.8 GHz Xeon Mac Pro 2010, 16 GB RAM, OS 10.11.2, Office 2011, LAN

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#13108 - 12/02/10 04:32 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: artie505]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
I think the Mac AppStore could turn out to be a huge boon to developers like this one, and you may see a lot of freeware and shareware becoming 99-centware instead.
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#13109 - 12/02/10 05:12 PM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: crarko]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: crarko
I think the Mac AppStore could turn out to be a huge boon to developers like this one, and you may see a lot of freeware and shareware becoming 99-centware instead.

That's a very interesting thought, although it won't impact the Safari Extensions Gallery unless Apple relaxes its "Free" restriction.

Let's play it by ear and see what happens when it happens.

Thanks for making the point.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory Of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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#13123 - 12/03/10 03:22 AM Re: Shame on almost everybody!!! [Re: crarko]
ryck Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: crarko
....and you may see a lot of freeware and shareware becoming 99-centware instead.

Ditto artie505's comment - that is a very interesting idea. If a now-freeware piece of software was only available through Apple for .99, it would accomplish at least two things. The freeware developer would start getting some dough and the software would be safer (i.e. free of the kind of code shortcuts that adversely affect system performance) as Apple, I assume, would not sell any that didn't meet some development standards.

ryck


Edited by ryck (12/03/10 03:22 AM)
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ryck

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