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#12949 - 11/26/10 03:52 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: kevs
I have a friend who is a copyright expert, not a lawyer but a photographer. he brought all this to my attention. Would you agree, that the odds of Tiny pic actually using the image, any image for anything later it about one in billion? and even then they could easily be sued, and their terms would not amount to a hill of beans?

Agree? I wouldn't hazard the world's wildest guess about what TinyPics intentions may be (or whether they've already actually exercised any of their "options").

And as for your friend's opinion, I'd guess that TP's terms of use were written by an intellectual property attorney and that it would take another of same to rebut them.

That said, I'll also guess that it's altogether possible that TP is using some sort of scanning algorithm to "sniff out" posted pics that may be suitable for upload to a "stock-house," but I'll sleep comfortably knowing that my screenshots do not fall into that category.
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#12951 - 11/26/10 06:20 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: artie505]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
And further...

> "I did not even see the terms your honor."

and

> "Yeah, I don't think any terms and conditions can win in court. People will argue they did not read it (which no one does-- it's common knowledge)."

Not having read the terms is not an acceptable excuse today nor has it never been one; you'd have to prove conclusively that they were so well hidden that you couldn't find them despite having searched. (Edit: And even then you might trip over not having asked.)

Get real, kevs... You run your own business, so I'll give you credit for some degree of business savvy and ask whether you give anything away for nothing...no strings and whether you seriously believe that TinyPic (for example) is an eleemosynary organization that is running servers and burning bandwidth out of the goodness of its heart and its uncontrollable desire to bring free hosting to the underpaid and the out-of-work?
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#12952 - 11/26/10 06:52 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: joemikeb]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> You may not have seen them, but I would bet there was a statement somewhere that said something to the effect that by posting an image here you are agreeing by the usage agreement or something to that effect.

As far as I can see, ImageShack presents no such caveat; you've got to look to the bottom of their home page for the "ToS" link to find their terms of service.
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#12957 - 11/27/10 11:01 AM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
I would say that's true, yes.

TinyPic is owned by Photobucket. If Photobucket were suddenly to start claiming ownership of or making commercial use of their users' pictures, their business would collapse. It seems unlikely they'd want to commit business suicide that way.
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#12958 - 11/27/10 11:10 AM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: tacit]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
that's what I would think.
but the fact they have some legalese with propel the real legal/ anal photographers to avoid using service. but you agree with me Tacit, it's one in billion.

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#12972 - 11/27/10 04:26 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: kevs
that's what I would think.
but the fact they have some legalese with propel the real legal/ anal photographers to avoid using service.


Those people won't find any service that doesn't have similar terms, though. It's not really possible to have a photo service without those terms, because without them, the photographer is not giving the photo service the right to reproduce the photo...so how can the photo service display the photo?
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#12978 - 11/27/10 05:46 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
This comes from ImageShack's Terms of Service, and similar language may also appear in those of the other mentioned hosting sites.

Quote:
Short version of the ImageShack Terms of Service:
Don't upload anything that can be construed as porn, copyrighted material, harassment, or spam. If you do, we will ban you, delete all your images, and prevent you from viewing any images hosted on ImageShack.

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#12979 - 11/27/10 06:01 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> their business would collapse

Why would their business collapse if they were to distribute users' pictures? Hosting is an apparently otherwise non-income producing and, conversely, costly aspect thereof.

Thanks.
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#13012 - 11/28/10 06:05 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: artie505]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Every image that isn't explicitly placed in the public domain or over 170 years old or so is copyrighted; that term means "copyrighted by a copyright owner other than you," I reckon.

As for why their business would collapse, an image hosting service that starts misappropriating people's pictures would quickly have no users, as the Internet is a sensitive bunch and the howls of protest that'd greet such a thing would be quite overwhelming. A cooking magazine called Cooks Source actually got caught in this kind of furor and subsequently went out of business.
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#13017 - 11/28/10 06:35 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: tacit]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Quote:
Every image that isn't explicitly placed in the public domain or over 170 years old or so is copyrighted; that term means "copyrighted by a copyright owner other than you," I reckon.

Good point; I suspected that "construed" was getting by me in some way, and that may be it.

Quote:
As for why their business would collapse, an image hosting service that starts misappropriating people's pictures would quickly have no users, as the Internet is a sensitive bunch and the howls of protest that'd greet such a thing would be quite overwhelming. A cooking magazine called Cooks Source actually got caught in this kind of furor and subsequently went out of business.

Misappropriating is a harsh word to use to characterize somebody's doing something they were (presumably) given an up-front right to do.

Edit: And the Cooks Source debacle was not an analogous situation; it was outright (although perhaps ignorant) theft compounded by somebody's being too dumb to ask an intellectual property attorney a coupl'a smart questions.


Edited by artie505 (11/28/10 06:43 PM)
Edit Reason: Complete post
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#13019 - 11/28/10 06:47 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: artie505]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
I'm with Tacit, I don't follow your logic Artie. People use tinypic and imageshack to quickly post an image to forums such as this one. No one imagines that the image they post would later be sold in another context. How they make their money, not sure, advertising?

Side note, as long as I have your ear Tacit:
What do you think of the ton of complaint sites now on the internet which allow people to post anonymous and often fabricated complaints against small businesses?
This issue for me is even more pernicious. They hide out behind their proxy web hosters, and you cannot get the slander removed. its just sits there for you potential clients to judge you by.

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#13022 - 11/28/10 10:32 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> No one imagines that the image they post would later be sold in another context.

"No one" imagines that will happen because "no one," myself very often included, reads the legalese and educates hirself to the fact that it can happen.

Coming from an accounting/business background and many years of reading both well and poorly written legal documents I'm really only playing devils-advocate here, kevs...pointing out that what may seem to be 100% unlikely may, at the same time, be 100% within the realm of possibility.

I'll take another tack here and post the (only minimal in this context) up-front, in-your-face terms of service of ArtiePics...free hosting:
  • I will provide free storage space on my servers for your uploaded pics which, by definition, have no commercial value to you.
  • I will provide free processing in the form of a list of URLs that you may use to link to your pics.
  • I will provide free bandwidth to make the links functional.
  • In return, I reserve the right to distribute any of your pics that I determine have commercial value and to profit therefrom.
I'll bet that would scare the bejeezus out of most potential users, a great many of whom, I suspect, would upload anyhow because their pics of Grandma standing by the tree are most assuredly valueless (and they didn't realize that Madonna was standing on the other side of the tree grin ).
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#13023 - 11/28/10 10:46 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
I'm going to respond to this in situ, Mods, but I suggest that this very pertinent subject be given its own thread in the Lounge.

> Side note, as long as I have your ear Tacit:
What do you think of the ton of complaint sites now on the internet which allow people to post anonymous and often fabricated complaints against small businesses?
This issue for me is even more pernicious. They hide out behind their proxy web hosters, and you cannot get the slander removed. its just sits there for you potential clients to judge you by.


I'm with you all the way on this one, kevs! mad

Have you, or has anybody else, got any dirt on "Reputation Defender" and the claims they make?
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#13026 - 11/29/10 07:13 AM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: artie505]
MacManiac Online

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Paradise....on the central Ore...
Quote:
I'm going to respond to this in situ, Mods, but I suggest that this very pertinent subject be given its own thread in the Lounge.


I agree that we've drifted far enough away from the initial trouble-shooting origins of this topic to merit a move to the Lounge......just trying to pick the right point in the thread to make the cut. JoeMikeB had actually made the same suggestion back-channel shortly after his early contributions to the topic, but at that point we weren't yet heavily into copyright law and were still balancing the merits of several options for short-term photo hosting.

Edit: ....so now that I'm clear on WHICH topic that needs to move to the Lounge, this thread gets to remain in-place and intact while kevs opens a new thread in the Lounge to explore the "complaint sites" side-bar.


Edited by MacManiac (11/29/10 09:44 PM)
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#13029 - 11/29/10 08:57 AM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: MacManiac]
cyn Online

Administrator

Registered: 08/03/09
Since we can't move kevs' side note about "the ton of complaint sites now on the internet which allow people to post anonymous and often fabricated complaints against small businesses" without taking the entire post that contains it I'd say kevs should start a new thread on that topic himself.
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#13047 - 11/29/10 05:00 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: cyn]
kevs Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Cyn, what is best forum for that topic?

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#13049 - 11/29/10 06:41 PM Re: Alternatives to tinypic? [Re: kevs]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
If you're talking about the complaint sites, that'd be the Lounge.
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