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#12541 - 10/25/10 01:06 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
These "developments" seem strange, to say the least.
A dumb question perhaps, but ...
Given that Flash Player is used by innumberable sites and that Java and JavaScript even more so, how might one continue to access those sites which make use of same?
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#12542 - 10/25/10 01:31 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: grelber
These "developments" seem strange, to say the least.
A dumb question perhaps, but ...
Given that Flash Player is used by innumberable sites and that Java and JavaScript even more so, how might one continue to access those sites which make use of same?

I can't speak for Java, but its elimination will not affect JavaScript (*), and Flash will remain downloadable at user option, although it will be up to individual users to make sure they're current, particularly security-wise.

(*)Extracted from Java vs. JavaScript:

"Now let's talk about how Java and JavaScript differ. The main difference is that Java can stand on its own while JavaScript must be placed inside an HTML document to function."
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The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#12543 - 10/25/10 03:30 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

These "developments" seem to have to do with Apple's inability to ensure that such third-party components function consistently, reliably, and securely within the context of the iOS/OS X operating systems. The recent preview of OS X 7 shows that the computer and "mobile device" versions of the OS are increasingly being developed as superset and subset, respectively, part of Apple's attempt to create a user experience which translates seamlessly between devices.

These moves are about control; but interpreting whether it's in the sense of an attempt to lock users into the Apple ecosphere, or in the sense of "quality control," seems to depend on one's prior disposition regarding Apple.
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#12544 - 10/25/10 04:35 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
tacit Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Originally Posted By: grelber
These "developments" seem strange, to say the least.
A dumb question perhaps, but ...
Given that Flash Player is used by innumberable sites and that Java and JavaScript even more so, how might one continue to access those sites which make use of same?


Very few sites use Java.

However, it should be kept in mind that Apple is not doing anything particularly unusual here. They are not forbidding Java or Flash on the Mac. They just aren't going to provide it any more; if you want it you will have to download it.

That is exactly how it is on other operating systems. If you get a Windows computer, it won't come with Java or Flash. The first time you visit a site that needs either one, you'll be asked to download them.

Same for Linux. Apple was the only major OS vendor supplying Java and Flash out of the box. Now they aren't going to; OS X will be exactly like Windows and Linux in that regard.

So all in all, no big deal, really.
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#12545 - 10/25/10 07:53 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: dkmarsh]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
RE These moves are about control; but interpreting whether it's in the sense of an attempt to lock users into the Apple ecosphere, or in the sense of "quality control," seems to depend on one's prior disposition regarding Apple.

Methinks you're being too kind ~ diplomatic. It's all about control, pretty much in the Orwellian sense — which, given Apple's one-off Macintosh ad in 1984, has a peculiar irony attached to it.

I had thought, even way back then, that Apple/Macintosh was a boon to those of us who stared at the C: prompt flashing, not knowing what to do. And I further projected that such systems would become more and more user friendly, to the point that the human-machine interface would be seamless. Sadly, it all has become most unseemly, and now human-machine interface (to me, at least) has become so cumbersome as to make me want to become a Luddite troglodyte.
My singular comment, the same in oh, so many languages, is: merde/mierda/Scheiße/govno/....

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#12546 - 10/25/10 08:32 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: grelber
RE These moves are about control; but interpreting whether it's in the sense of an attempt to lock users into the Apple ecosphere, or in the sense of "quality control," seems to depend on one's prior disposition regarding Apple.

Methinks you're being too kind ~ diplomatic. It's all about control, pretty much in the Orwellian sense — which, given Apple's one-off Macintosh ad in 1984, has a peculiar irony attached to it.

I had thought, even way back then, that Apple/Macintosh was a boon to those of us who stared at the C: prompt flashing, not knowing what to do. And I further projected that such systems would become more and more user friendly, to the point that the human-machine interface would be seamless. Sadly, it all has become most unseemly, and now human-machine interface (to me, at least) has become so cumbersome as to make me want to become a Luddite troglodyte.
My singular comment, the same in oh, so many languages, is: merde/mierda/Scheiße/govno/....

Orwellian?  Hilarious.
You've never even used an iPad... have you?

And what else? Installing software is cumbersome? LOL.
Perhaps you should just stick with a television then. smirk

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#12547 - 10/25/10 09:22 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
RE iPad (~tamPod)
Nope. No desire or need. What I have seen in terms of functioning of such items (including smart phones) is completely foreign (maybe even counterintuitive) to the way I carry on every-day life.
And guess what? I don't have/want/need a cell phone either. Or cable. Or satellite.
Which means I don't have whopping big 'communications' expenditures.
As I said, I love my cave (and my preserved bank account).

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#12567 - 10/26/10 09:08 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Originally Posted By: grelber
Which means I don't have whopping big 'communications' expenditures.

FWIW —even though my iPad is WiFi-only (no 3G builtin) —i have "installed" both Skype and sipgate (free apps).

I did sign up with sipgate (absolute zero 'monthly' charge, no charge for any incoming calls, and 1.9 cents/minute for outgoing calls to international landlines, and 17.9 cents/minute to international cell phones (in 'modern' countries that is).

E.g., using my iPad on my home WiFi setup in the USA, i called my old college friend in Australia (house phone) and spoke for 55 minutes. My credit dropped a whopping dollar and five cents ($1.05 USD). Also —while visiting Stockholm recently —I was also able to call USA for that same low 1.9¢ per minute by using the free WiFi at McDonald's (and many other establishments, including pubs).

Of course, either program can also be installed on regular computers as well... and both can call totally free to other "users" across the Internet. [e.g., i can talk computer-to-computer over the web with my Skype-using friends in Sweden (from whence Skype originally hails, btw) for free... literally endlessly.]

After decades of getting fleeced by Ma Bell, it's amazing to see how cheap calls can be via VoIP.


Edited by Hal Itosis (10/26/10 09:15 PM)

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#12568 - 10/27/10 12:21 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
artie505 Online


Registered: 08/04/09
> After decades of getting fleeced by Ma Bell, it's amazing to see how cheap calls can be via VoIP.

By way of comparison, and for the benefit of the rest of the luddites out there, I use prepaid AT&T cards that I get from Sam's Club...$0.03/minute (all taxes and fees included) for state-to-state calls and $0.09/minute (also all-inclusive) for in-state calls. (Prices are for calls placed to either land-line or cell phones.)

If I needed to make international calls I'd most assuredly follow your lead.
_________________________
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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#12569 - 10/27/10 01:48 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis
After decades of getting fleeced by Ma Bell, it's amazing to see how cheap calls can be via VoIP.


I think it's fair to say that external forces (VoIP is probably one of them) have helped force prices down at the phone companies, because they now have package deals that dramatically lower costs.

For about five years we had a separate long distance deal with Primus - 19.95 per month for 1,000 minutes in Canada, and very low rates to other countries. During that time our phone company (Telus) constantly sent glossy brochures and phoned us trying to get our long distance business back. The answer was always "Sorry. You're too expensive."

Earlier this year they finally came up with a even better deal than Primus and we switched back.

ryck


Edited by ryck (10/27/10 01:50 AM)
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iMac (Retina 5K, 27", 2017), 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 2400 MHz DDR4
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#12571 - 10/27/10 06:29 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: ryck]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
I switched my LD service over to Yak Communications (3.5¢/minute anywhere in Canada and USA).
I used to use Yak's dial-around service (at 5¢/min) and also their LooneyCall ($1.00/100 minutes, which I can still use with their own LD service).
Yak is available throughout Canada and in many of the States; as far as I'm aware, LooneyCall is available only in Canada.

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#12593 - 10/28/10 06:16 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: grelber]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)

Getting back to the bash-fest: Critical zero-day flaw in Flash, Reader, etc. (seems to be a re-run of what they supposedly patched last summer, or?).

[i.e., June, Sept.]

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#12608 - 10/29/10 04:53 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)

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#12645 - 11/04/10 01:27 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#12660 - 11/05/10 10:02 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: Hal Itosis

Getting back to the bash-fest: Critical zero-day flaw in Flash, Reader, etc. (seems to be a re-run of what they supposedly patched last summer, or?).

[i.e., June, Sept.]


Have there been any "HTML-5" security bugs? or is it even possible as such, since it's interpreted by the browser instead of via a close-ware plugin like flashplayer?
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#12706 - 11/11/10 02:31 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Virtual1]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#12714 - 11/11/10 02:54 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: jchuzi]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa


(clutches chest) Say it ain't so!
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#12729 - 11/12/10 02:09 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Here's a pretty cool trick John Gruber has devised to get many sites to serve HTML 5 video in place of Flash video to folks running Safari in Mac OS X:

Masquerading as Mobile Safari...
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dkmarsh • member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors

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#15101 - 04/12/11 06:48 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: dkmarsh]
Hal Itosis Offline


Registered: 09/03/09
Loc: 10.6.8 (build 10K549)
Flash plus MS Word - a match made in heaven.
(apparently Windows is part of the recipe too)

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#15110 - 04/13/11 10:06 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: artie505]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: artie505
"Now let's talk about how Java and JavaScript differ. The main difference is that Java can stand on its own while JavaScript must be placed inside an HTML document to function."


I use swfplayer so I can play .swf games locally
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#15121 - 04/14/11 02:07 PM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: artie505]
joemikeb Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: artie505

(*)Extracted from Java vs. JavaScript:

"Now let's talk about how Java and JavaScript differ. The main difference is that Java can stand on its own while JavaScript must be placed inside an HTML document to function."

I just ran across this comment and found the quote to be overly simplistic and taken out context it is grossly misleading. You would have been more accurate to quote the entire paragraph which reads
Originally Posted By: HTMLGoodies
Now let's talk about how Java and JavaScript differ. The main difference is that Java can stand on its own while JavaScript must be placed inside an HTML document to function. Java is a much larger and more complicated language that creates "standalone" applications. A Java "applet" (so-called because it is a little application) is a fully contained program. JavaScript is text that is fed into a browser that can read it and then is enacted by the browser--although today's web apps are starting to blur the line between traditional desktop applications and those which are created using the traditional web technologies: JavaScript, HTML and CSS.
For a more complete unserstanding of the difference in Java and JavaScript you should read the entire article. By-the-way, to be completely pricise, JavaScript is a dialect of ECMAScript which is the ruliing standard.
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#15397 - 05/03/11 10:27 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: dkmarsh]
slolerner Offline


Registered: 08/25/09
Loc: New York City
Flash alternatives, Canvas cutting edge:

http://elmasse.gaver.nl/projects/Coverflow0.1/test.html

http://gyu.que.jp/jscloth/

Won't work in IE yet.

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#15562 - 05/13/11 07:53 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: Hal Itosis]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Adobe Flash update puts users in charge of privacy.
Would improved Flash cookie management for end-users matter (much)?
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#15564 - 05/13/11 09:00 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I installed AFP 10.3 yesterday and was looking at its preference pane (in System Preferences). The Storage tab has an option to "Block all sites from storing information on this computer." When I checked its radio button, a warning popped up that says:

Disable Local Storage

Blocking all sites from storing information my disable functionality on some web sites.

This will also delete all data stored by previously visited sites, which may include game progress, login data, saved work, or preferences.


Then, one can either cancel or confirm the choice.

I opted to cancel, not knowing which sites this might affect. Thoughts or explanations?
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.2, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#15566 - 05/13/11 10:12 AM Re: Flash Bashing Express [Re: jchuzi]
grelber Offline


Registered: 08/05/09
Loc: North of 49th ||
Unless you're an online gamer (where such might be a liability), click "Confirm choice", in IMHO.
Any site where that might prove to be a problem should evidence itself the next time you log in, but it's unlikely that anything seriously detrimental to you would happen.

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Moderator:  alternaut, cyn