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#6552 - 12/09/09 06:35 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: artie505]
crarko Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Minnesota USA
I highly recommend the Tim Tam Slam for a new coffee experience.
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The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr

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#6565 - 12/10/09 10:14 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
MicroMatTech3 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Jon,

I bought the Technivorm Thermo Moccamaster CDT in February from www.roastmasters.com, which offered two pounds of Willoughby's coffee (which could become addictive), a box of 100 paper coffee filters by Filtropa, and free shipping. The stainless steel carafe on that model does require preheating for best results.

All Technivorm did was to find out what the correct temperature and contact time between the water and ground beans should be (by asking those who already knew), and make sure the showerhead fully soaks the grounds. Yet they seem to have an incomparable product.
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#6567 - 12/10/09 01:01 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: MicroMatTech3]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I rarely (almost never) brew more than 4 cups at a time. How well does the Technivorm do with amounts smaller than full capacity? I know that there is a brew setting on the filter basket to control this.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#6568 - 12/10/09 02:26 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
MicroMatTech3 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Jon,

The Technivorm model I have retains 4 ounces of water from each brewing cycle. I put enough water for two cups of coffee into it, and run one cycle without coffee. That preheats the stainless steel caraffe. Brewing even two cups is not a problem.

There is an advanced technique for smaller quantities in which the user starts the brewing process, and turns off the valve on the cone for 30 seconds (suggested times vary from reviewer to reviewer). That allows more contact time. After 30 seconds, the user changes the switch setting, and allows the water to start flowing into the caraffe. This approach is dangerous for people who forget to change the switch setting, but with only 2 cups, the cone will not overflow even if the user forgets to change the setting.

A technique similar to the one described above is mentioned in the tip sheet at:

http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.technivorm.php

The Technivorm is very entertaining to watch. The water travels vertically in the tube, and a pleasant gurgling sound is made.
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#6570 - 12/10/09 03:02 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: MicroMatTech3]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Thanks for your input. I showed your responses to the missus and she's interested as well. I don't know if I want to experiment with that method of brewing small amounts but who knows? I downloaded Sweet Maria's tip sheet for future reference.

At any rate, we intend to get the model with the glass carafe. Our KitchenAid has a glass carafe and we pour the freshly-brewed coffee into a glass-lined thermal carafe by Alfi. We have found that stainless steel carafes don't retain temperature as well and that "stainless steel" is an oxymoron.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#6578 - 12/10/09 07:22 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
MicroMatTech3 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Jon,

You are welcome.

Some people would find the extra steps involved in controlling the contact time annoying, and other people would find that they offer an enjoyable degree of involvement in the process, similar to the use of an expresso machine. After a few uses of the Technivorm, I found that the extras steps became habitual, and seemed to require no effort at all.

The pronunciation is: Teck-knee-form

Some stainless steel is not stainless because the chromium and nickel are not evenly distributed throughout the metal.
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#7901 - 01/24/10 09:35 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: MicroMatTech3]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Our Technivorm Moccamaster (with glass carafe) arrived a day after we ordered it from Terroir Coffee, complete with 12 oz. of Matalapa, La Libertad, El Salvador, a box of Filtropa #4 filters, George Howell's recommendations for brewing, and a genuine George Howell Coffee Company scoop. We have been experimenting with the Technivorm for a few days and have concluded that Howell's proportions (water to coffee in the ration of 17:1, that is, 17 oz. water to 1 oz. coffee) suits our taste. If you are using the Technivorm markings for cups, it translates to about 7 grams of coffee per cup. The GHCC scoop holds about 14 grams.

The TV certainly makes great coffee but we found that our $25 KitchenAid 4-cupper does an equally fine job. The TV excels in its flexibility for tweaking the brew and its ability to make extra-strength coffee. I did that by accident the first time that I tried the TV and it was a revelation. My wife had her usual amount at breakfast and spent the rest of the day totally wired. We both loved the taste (it's as rich as espresso with more depth) but we won't do this too often because we're afraid that our heart rates will go into overdrive. If you're interested, the proportions were 22 oz. of water to 28 grams coffee, added to an empty TV, no residual water. Set the TV for the slow percolation rate. Interestingly, that is the same as our usual coffee via the KitchenAid but it came out totally different with the TV, most likely because the TV doesn't pass all the water through the coffee, keeping some in the water reservoir.

We are especially happy to have a maker that can brew amounts of coffee greater than 4 cups because we need that when we have company. Our previous 8-cupper (a freebie courtesy of Gevalia and made by Melitta) did a poor job. So, the TV is not flawless (dkmarsh take note grin ) but it is an excellent machine.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#7946 - 01/26/10 08:58 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
(it's as rich as espresso with more depth)


What do you mean by 'depth'? Would that be the caffeine? i.e. you got the strong taste of espresso by extra brewing but it was like espresso with caffeine. From what I understand, espresso would typically have less caffeine due to the length of the roasting time.

I ask because I've been experimenting with coffee purchases and, in error, bought some decaffeinated....and I don't find it very tasty.

ryck


Edited by ryck (01/26/10 09:03 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#7949 - 01/26/10 11:08 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
By "depth", I mean extra nuance, variety of flavors, and a multi-dimensional quality. Also, the taste improves as the brew cools. Espresso does, indeed, have less caffeine than lighter roasts but that refers to the caffeine content of each bean. When espresso is brewed, a very fine grind is used as well as a high proportion of coffee to water. So, a cup of espresso has a higher concentration of caffeine than a comparable amount of regular coffee.

I saw a wonderful lapel pin that, regrettably, I didn't buy. It said, "Death Before Decaf".
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#8080 - 01/31/10 05:41 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
After more experimentation, I have come up with a combination of factors that suits my taste for coffee to a T (pun intended). Using the Technivorm Moccamaster, the following works for me:

1. 6 cups (TV measure) Poland Spring Water.
2. 35 grams coffee beans ground to DRIP (set it on the R of DRIP) with a Solis (now Baratza) Maestro Plus.
3. Percolation rate (via the TV's cone) set to Slow.

For me, this is the ideal cup. Obviously, this is a matter of personal preference but it may be useful as a starting point for the other coffee mavens out there.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#8088 - 01/31/10 10:17 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
6 cups (TV measure)


How much water is that cup? Is it the same as I would find in a standard measuring cup?

Thanks

ryck
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ryck

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#8089 - 01/31/10 10:22 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Technivorm uses the European cup, about 4 oz. Its reservoir says 10 cups, which translates to 1.25 liters. A complication is that a not-insignficant amount of water remains in the reservoir after the coffee is brewed (thus, never participating in the brewing process) so the markings on the TV won't necessarily translate to other coffeemakers. A standard American cup is about 5 oz.

Also, the proportion of water to coffee that I like for the TV may not work with a different maker due to differences in brewing temperature, speed of percolation through the grinds and maybe other factors.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#8091 - 01/31/10 12:00 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Jon, without intending to detract from the information you provided, I think the volume issue here warrants some comment. The 'cup' as used by Technivorm is NOT an official volume measure but refers to an average serving. As you note, rather than 8 (US) oz this serving equals about 4 oz, or half a unit cup (regardless of which flavor—US, English or Metric/European—as listed on OnlineConversion.com). Of course, it doesn't matter which unit you use when trying to maintain the proportions you mentioned above, but, as a Dutch saying goes, a consumer might want to know whether (s)he's dealing with a regular size cuppa or a 'Hague' (= half filled) one. wink

Btw, I didn't come up with a reference when I mentioned earlier that maintaining coffee at 83°C after brewing was imperative, but I noticed the temperature range (80-85°C) mentioned by Technivorm* as a requirement of the ECBC/SCAE/SCAA. These acronyms stand for the following coffee trade and consumer organizations:

- European Coffee Brewing Centre
- Speciality Coffee Association of Europe
- Specialty Coffee Association of America

*) See the model info in the popup windows when clicking on a product model on this page.
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#8093 - 01/31/10 01:05 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: alternaut]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I should have made it clear that a cup (8 oz.) used for measuring purposes is not the same as a coffee cup. Coffee measurements are, as we know, rather arbitrary so the only way to make a good brew is to experiment with the particular method that you are using until you achieve satisfaction (hopefully, caffeinated Nirvana). BTW, my model is the KGB741.

When I started to become interested in coffee (many, many years ago), I had read that a standard coffee cup was 6 oz. That has changed over the years and I rather think that there is no such thing as a "standard" coffee cup.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#8095 - 01/31/10 01:21 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

I'm not sure I'd want to consume anything that came out of a KGB coffeemaker, lest it contain dioxin. wink
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#8096 - 01/31/10 01:54 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: dkmarsh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
Not to mention ricin and polonium 210. Of course, considering some of the awful coffee that I have been afflicted with during my life, they might be an improvement. tongue
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#8098 - 01/31/10 03:21 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: dkmarsh]
alternaut Offline

Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09
Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

I'm not sure I'd want to consume anything that came out of a KGB coffeemaker...

Not to worry, the model number is actually KBG741. That said, your remark reminds me of the cold war times when Dutch businessmen dealing with both the USA and the USSR were issued two passports, one for each country, to avoid having to show potentially problematic entry and exit stamps. tongue But I digress... laugh
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#11759 - 09/12/10 03:49 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I serendipitously discovered another factor in making good coffee, namely, the brand of filter. I had been using Melitta filters in my Technivorm drip coffeemaker and was running out of them. Since I was ordering coffee anyway, I ordered a box of Connaisseur filters. Both my wife and I noticed a marked improvement in the flavor of the coffee using Connaisseur.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#11760 - 09/12/10 09:23 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
I serendipitously discovered another factor in making good coffee, namely, the brand of filter.

That's interesting. I use an "Emma" unbleached fiter made in Germany (Cuisinart Maker). My wife once accidentally brought home the wrong filter, the name of which I don't recall, which was bleached. When I noticed, we were right out of filters, with stores closed, so I was forced to start the package.

There was a change in the coffee that I guessed might be the result of the bleaching chemicals. Of course, that might be wrong and it was simply the quality of the filtering.

Your link provided an interesting tip:

"If you are sensitive to the papery taste of coffee filters, just put the coffee filter in your brew basket, and run some hot water into the filter to rise out the papery taste. (Hot tap water should work fine.) After a few seconds, pour out the water and splash out the excess. Put your grinds into the wet filter, and brew as normal."

ryck


Edited by ryck (09/12/10 09:25 AM)
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#11763 - 09/12/10 12:02 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
I tried unbleached filters, albeit quite some time ago, and found that they added a "chemical" paper taste that was lacking from bleached filters. Or, maybe I was used to the taste of bleach and missed it when using unbleached? confused

At any rate, I prefer bleached filters to the ecologically correct (similar to politically correct?) unbleached filters.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#11765 - 09/12/10 12:41 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
When I bought the Technivorm from Terroir Coffee, a small number of Filtropa filters was included. I used them up before I had mastered the Technivorm so I don't know how good they really are. Since George Howell, the owner of Terroir Coffee, recommends them, I take that seriously. Howell is widely recognized as a coffee expert.
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#11781 - 09/13/10 08:37 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
ryck Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Okanagan Valley
Originally Posted By: jchuzi
Or, maybe I was used to the taste of bleach and missed it when using unbleached? confused

Of course, there's also the possibility that I might be used to the taste of something that's not getting bleached out. I sure hope it's not little bits of Pine Beetle.

ryck
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ryck

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#11782 - 09/13/10 09:15 AM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: ryck]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
A long time ago, I tried a gold plated filter instead of paper. Maybe it was the fault of the grinder that I then had, but the coffee had noticeable particles that came through the filter. I was using a Braun burr grinder that was reasonably priced and reasonably good but it gave a somewhat uneven grind. I now use a Solis Maestro Plus that seems to be very consistent (and, not incidentally, yields a better cup). I no longer have the gold plated filter and I'm getting such good results with paper that I don't have much inclination to buy another one.
_________________________
Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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#11786 - 09/13/10 03:20 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: jchuzi]
dkmarsh Online
Moderator

Registered: 08/04/09

Just gimme a heaping spoonful of Folger's in a styrofoam cup of hot tap water and don't be stingy with the Cremora* or the NutraSweet!
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*Or any other non-dairy creamer consisting of partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, corn syrup solids, sugar, sodium caseinate, dipotassium phosphate, monoglycerides, silicon dioxide, sodium tripolyphosphate, etc.
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#11787 - 09/13/10 04:44 PM Re: Here's Mud in Your Cup [Re: dkmarsh]
jchuzi Online


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: New York State
What's the difference between the styrofoam and the stuff that you're drinking? tongue
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Jon

OS 10.14.6, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365

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