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New Mac
#10014 05/19/10 11:55 PM
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I am beginning to realize that my G4 is dated and soon won't be able to run new versions of software (I already can't sync my iPad). I've been looking at new machines at the apple store when I go to town. I thought a mini would suit my needs fine (and it would), but....
The iMacs look really neat and the 27" display is awesome. They have 3 models, and all I could get from the associate is that they have "different chips". What's the difference in the core 2 duo, i5, and i7? Just launching programs at the apple store seemed like there wasn't a noticeable difference between the 3.06 GHz core duo and the 2.8 GHz i7. There was a noticeable price difference of about $500.

Then there's the Mac Pro's with quad core. What's that?


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Re: New Mac
...JER #10015 05/20/10 12:39 AM
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The answer depends upon how you intend to use the computer. For starters, go to MacWorld to access reviews of the various models.

Personally, I like the Mac Pro because of its expandability and flexibility. Adding RAM is a breeze and it has space for four internal drives. I find this arrangement to be more convenient than having external drives. I also have a choice of displays, rather than being dependent upon a built-in display (as in the iMac). This suits my need for careful calibration because of my photography addiction.

What do you intend to do with your new Mac? Your answer will influence the advice that you get.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: New Mac
jchuzi #10016 05/20/10 02:25 AM
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25 years ago, I was a Power User, now I just surf, check email use filemaker, pagemaker several times a year, and photoshop to clean up photos and graphics. I bought my G4 when 466 MHz was top of the line...what 15 years ago? It's expandable, but I've found that the only expansion I've done is ethernet to replace a burned out motherboard ethernet, USB 2, and a SCSI card to access my antique SCSI hard drives which I never have done.

I was trying to figure out the difference in the chips in the new machines: core 2 duo, i5, i7, quad core, etc. I'm guessing that there's more than clock speed involved since the newer i5 & 7 are slower speed but more expensive.

The hard drive space on any of the machines is over kill for me as I have a 115GB drive now with 81 GB free. I no longer feel that I have to be on the "bleeding edge" equipment wise, but this may well be my last computer if it last as long as the G4.


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Re: New Mac
...JER #10022 05/20/10 03:37 PM
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Judging by your proposed usage, I can only say what I would do in the same situation, so take my advice with the usual grain of sodium chloride. If I were you, I would go for the 27" iMac. It should be plenty fast for your photoshop usage and it's beyond fast for web surfing and word processing. My understanding is that the built-in display is excellent and, probably, getting a stand-alone display is unnecessary. I would, however, invest in display calibration software. I use X-Rite Eye-One Display 2 and find it to be very good. At one time, I would calibrate the display manually (via System Preferences > Displays) but I find that X-Rite's software works much better.

My take is that the Mac Pro would be overkill, not to mention much more expensive. From everything that I have read, the iMac's performance is almost on a par with the Mac Pro and, for your usage, you probably wouldn't notice a difference.

My 2¢.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: New Mac
...JER #10026 05/20/10 05:09 PM
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I know several people with Mac Pros of various vintages and invariably they have not maxed out the RAM, have no cards in the additional slots, and if they have extra drives in all the drive bays usually it is because they had some old drives lying around and not because the storage space was needed.

FWIW my advice to friends and family, unless they are heavy duty graphic/video/audio professional or semi-prefessional users, is to get the top of the line iMac. What is now top of the line will migrate down the price point ladder soon enough but the extra speed and bigger screen will keep their iMac current longer. My son, a long time MacBook Pro user, recently decided that between an iPhone and iPad he no longer needed a laptop and bought an iMac with the 3.06 GHz processor. The speed and the screen on the iMac has completely blown him away and he is a very happy camper.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: New Mac
jchuzi #10027 05/20/10 05:12 PM
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That's kinda the way I was leaning, and probably for the least expensive one.

Would still like to know the difference in the chips though.


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Re: New Mac
joemikeb #10028 05/20/10 05:16 PM
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Thanks, I agree, but not sure that I need the top of the line model. I think the 3.06 core duo would do me just fine.


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Re: New Mac
...JER #10030 05/20/10 05:41 PM
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The 3.06 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo has the equivalent of two processors in the core which means OS X can split the processing load between the two processors for the most efficient operation while the 2.66 GHz i5 actually has four processors in the core.

Theoretically the ability to split the processing load four ways should contribute to faster system throughput and will when the following conditions are met:
  • the application(s) have been designed and written to work in the multi-processor environment however there aren't that many applications that would benefit materially by being rewritten to take advantage of the multiple cores and most of those that can benefit have not been rewritten because of the cost of doing so
  • the OS has been optimize to take advantage of the additional processors and Snow Leopard can do that so the additional cores will provide some boost in OS performance and maybe some boost in application performance when all else is equal
  • the system has lots and lots of RAM memory installed to reduce or eliminate paging data in and out of the swapfiles and caches on the hard drive, but the same can be said for any system
So far, what I have seen generally indicates the 3.06GHz core 2 Duo will provide excellent performance for most applications and in most circumstances. Performance equal to or even better then the 2.66GHz Core i5. So there again unless you are using top end professional level applications the i5 is unlikely to provide you with any significant or even noticeable improvement in performance.

Personally I would still go for the 27" screen and bump the RAM up to 8 GB, and the time will come when you will be greatful to have the 1TB HD. I would not buy the RAM upgrade from Apple. They are too proud of their RAM. I would get the RAM from Other World Computing or possibly Crucial.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: New Mac
joemikeb #10031 05/20/10 06:22 PM
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Thanks for the explanation of the chips That's what I was looking for. I agree with your assessment, and will probably purchase the 3.06 core duo. I definitely want the 27 inch.


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Re: New Mac
...JER #10039 05/21/10 12:23 PM
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don't forget to check the Apple Refurb Store for great deals on iMacs. I'm a firm believer in refurbs, as they are essentially a new machine, gone over with a finer tooth comb, plus they have already had a few months to live, so when you get Applecare (and you will get Applecare, right?!), you're really getting a few extra months.

something to think about. cool


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Re: New Mac
roger #10042 05/21/10 04:25 PM
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Good idea Roger, Thanks!


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Re: New Mac
...JER #10051 05/22/10 12:34 AM
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The crude, quick and dirty answer is"The Core 2 Duo is an older processor; the Core i5 is a newer, more powerful processor; the core i7 is a still more powerful processor."

In a way, think back to the PowerPC days. The Core 2 Duo is kind of like a G4 processor, the Core i5 and Core i7 are like G5 processors. The clock speed has nothing directly to do with how powerful the processors are; there are other things, like how fast the RAM is, how powerful the processor itself is, how many processor cores there are, and so on, and so on.

And keep in mind that the Core i5 and Core i7 processors are actually very difficult to measure the clock speed, because the clock speed changes. The Core i5 and Core i7 will start out at the minimum rated speed, then speed up and speed up as you run more programs, until the temperature sensors embedded in the chips tell them that they have reached the maximum possible safe speed. The speed number you see on the computers stats is the minimum speed.

For example, the Core i5 2.53 GHz processor doesn't actually run at 2.53 GHz unless for some reason it overheats. The maximum operating speed for the Core i5 2.53 GHz is actually 3.06 GHz. It ramps up to 3.06 GHz when you run programs, and ramps back down to 2.53 GHz only if you put it into power-saving mode or you run it in a hot environment.

The Core i7 processors actually run at 3.33 GHz when you're running applications, and ramp down in power saving mode or if they're running in a hot environment.

The Core i5 and Core i7 processors have four processor cores; the Core 2 Duo has two. The computers that use Core i5 and Core i7 processors also have better memory, better graphics, and better hard drives.

Generally speaking, my advice is "buy the best computer you can afford." It may not seem that you will need the extra power now, but a more powerful computer will last you longer.


Photo gallery, all about me, and more: www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Re: New Mac
tacit #10054 05/22/10 01:02 AM
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Generally speaking, my advice is "buy the best computer you can afford." It may not seem that you will need the extra power now, but a more powerful computer will last you longer.

I'd agree with that. You're going to benefit threefold from this strategy:

1) immediate access to better performing hardware, boosts your productivity in the short term

2) if for some reason you can't upgrade again for awhile, what you've got will be usable for a longer time before you are forced to upgrade

3) if you are on a fixed refresh schedule, such as every 3 years, your used kit will have a better resale value when it gets to that age

While #2 isn't an issue for me, #1 and #3 have paid off for me, time and time again.


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