 Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
First off, Merry Christmas + Happy New Year !
Just curious:
Other than (quasi-standard) internet, I have no truck with smartphones* or their ilk (prefer-ring a land line with no outages and cost packages that make some sort of sense — I have no clue what "data" means in the non-land-line world ± how one might control costs) and I don't know from WiFi (some sort of funky magic which I can't access — since my home computer can't find a hotspot within striking range). With some sort of "package" one can apparently get worldwide free phone calling when using one's smartphone via WiFi.
How does this work?! Please use jargon-free explanation ... necessary for the feeble of mind.
[* I couldn't use a smartphone if I tried. While I have perfect vision from 1m to infinity, my close vision requires a screen no smaller than my iMac's.]
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 Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
First off, Merry Christmas + Happy New Year ! Best of the season to you, too!
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15 |
...I don't know from WiFi (some sort of funky magic which I can't access — since my home computer can't find a hotspot within striking range). With some sort of "package" one can apparently get worldwide free phone calling when using one's smartphone via WiFi. You've got Internet service, so, whether you realize it or not, you've got WiFi. And as for free worldwide phone calling without a cell phone, you can look into Skype.
The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.
In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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 Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
Yes and no.
I've got internet, but it's dial-up, so WiFi is not directly accessible unless I can find a local/neighborhood hotspot provided by the telephone company. Ergo, no WiFi until that happens.
Likewise, Skype or similar is not viable given the slow internet access.
But I'd still like to know how it works.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Aug 2009
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I will take a shot at answering your questions: GENERAL- There are three types of information that can be communicated on a smartphone: voice telephone calls, text messages, and data.
- Voice telephone calls are the same thing you use your land-line phone for. Like most land-line phones these days, there is no distinction between local and long-distance calling and the great majority of cellular plans have no limits on the number or length of telephone calls.
- Text messages: short messages in text form or small graphic images. Historically, users were limited to a certain number of text messages each month, but as text messaging has become a dominant means of communication, those limits have largely disappeared.
- Data: everything else, including internet access. Most plans these days include unlimited data but place a monthly limit on high-speed data. Depending on the plan, when the monthly limit is exceeded either the data transmission speed is either reduced or an additional charge is levied.
SPECIAL CASES- iMessage:Apple's Message app uses three different messaging systems. The telephone companies SMS (Simple Messaging System), MMS (Multi-Media Messaging System), and Apple's proprietary iMessage system when communicating between Apple IDs. SMS and MMS messages are subject to the telephone companies' messaging limits. iMessages travel via internet connections and count against the data limits.
- INTERNET TELEPHONE: It is possible to make telephone calls via your Mac using your cellphone number. While this travels via the internet to an Apple data center where it enters the normal telephone network, it counts against your telephone account just as if you were using your smart phone.
- FACETIME: is not available over the telephone network
HOW TO MINIMIZE COST:
My approach:- Get a plan with unlimited messaging unlimited calls
- Allow your phone to always connect to your Wi-Fi
- If you make international calls, shop carefully
- Start with a minimal data plan (you can always upgrade if you find you need more data.)
- Only upgrade or do large data downloads when you have a Wi-Fi connection
- Only stream movies when you have a Wi-Fi connection.
- If you are traveling internationally, either choose a carrier that is in both Canada and the US (I use T-Mobile) or get a second account in both countries (iPhones support two SIM cards).
"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
That's good information but it doesn't go far enough.
More specifically, a relative who has had a smartphone for ages with WiFi capability can phone anywhere in the world for free with internet access — and was taking advantage of such to phone family and friends on Christmas day — for free — aboard a cruise ship off the coast of South America.
I just want to know how that works. It won't work for me given my landline phone which hooks me up to the internet (as explained previously).
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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At the risk of being called a fool, I believe (but never tried it) that you can make "free" WhatsApp calls, or even Facetime or Skype calls over the internet from your smartphone and the appropriate app. You still have to pay for the mobile phone service. I don't know how much data is used/charge by/to your phone. More expensive if you're roaming or on a ship at sea is my guess.
Launch your (say) WhatsApp, log in, make your call to someone with a similar app set up. The other party will have to be anticipating your call - text before hand to set a time. Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.4, 40 Gb RAM); MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
As far as I can tell, once establishing a telcom account for the smartphone (iPhone) and signing up for WiFi service, all that is required is internet access to make "free" phone calls to anywhere with no additional charges.
I don't understand it. And I don't know how to use the technical jargon to find out the answer.
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 Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
Here's the explanation my relative gives:
"My cellphone account/data plan is on AT&T. WiFi Calling is probably part of that. There is no charge apart from my regular monthly AT&T bill.
Once I leave the country, I put my phone on Airplane Mode and can no longer use my data or regular phone service. Everything is through WiFi.
I can do the same thing at home; I just have to put my phone on Airplane Mode."
Being a Luddite, I still can't figure out how that works.
As for my situation, once again, I have internet access only via my single landline phone. Therefore, when online, no phone calls can come in or go out.
When online, I could access WiFi if and only if (iff) I could locate a local WiFi hotspot provided by my telcom — and so far there ain't one. (I can see a whole bunch of WiFi accounts all of which are password-protected.)
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.4, 40 Gb RAM); MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
I'm still waiting to hear from my relative how, if one can't use the cellphone as a phone, one makes a phone call.
This is all so very bizarre. And I would have thought with all the technophiles and cogniscienti who lurk in the halls of FTM, someone would have a straight-forward explanation for Luddites like me. {sigh}
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 Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
I still haven't been able to a straight-forward step-by-step description of how this WiFi-Calling works.
The internet isn't a telephone line. Yet it seems to act like one (without any reason/description of how that is possible).
At this point I give up. Unless I get a comprehensible common-sense description (which I will share here if I do), it will remain one of life's mysteries.
Now I may go kill me sumpin'.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8 |
I still haven't been able to a straight-forward step-by-step description of how this WiFi-Calling works.
The internet isn't a telephone line. Yet it seems to act like one (without any reason/description of how that is possible).
At this point I give up. Unless I get a comprehensible common-sense description (which I will share here if I do), it will remain one of life's mysteries.
Now I may go kill me sumpin'. Ahh, but the Internet is a telephone line, just a different type than your copper landline phone line. Your telephone sends information over the physical wire. The nature of the telephone itself and some magic (e.g., you actually get the person you have dialed) by a phone company allows you to hear and be heard by someone with the appropriate device (a telephone). The same is true for wi-fi calling, except there is no copper wire; radio waves are used. And the device you use to speak and listen is a little different than your rotary or push-button landline phone. We call it a phone or a smartphone, and except for the image of push-buttons in the phone application, it is quite different from what Ma Bell first created. The magic that makes it work is a combination of software (for example, FaceTime or Skype) and a company that will transmit your call. If you want to know more about how wi-fi works, see this article. You should not be too surprised by wi-fi calling. I imagine you have used a radio. This is a one-way transmission, but a shortwave radio is a two-way set up where voice is sent and received with the appropriate hardware. Then again, maybe that is also a mystery to you and others.  Personally, if I needed to know how everything I use actually works, I might not even have running water. 
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
That still circumvents my basic question -- see #65446.
How does one dial a telephone number when connected to the internet via WiFi ?!?!?!?!
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Moderator
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Moderator
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Exactly the same way one dials a telephone number when using a cellular network. All that's different is the way the information is routed from one's phone to whoever one is calling.
dkmarsh—member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Moderator
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Moderator
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To expand on that: the determination as to which system of call routing is used seems to vary somewhat. With major carriers, the capacity to make wifi calls is built into the phone's operating system. I'm on Verizon, and I believe that as long as I'm connected to a wifi network, that's how the calls are connected. For some carriers, it may be that wifi is only used if the cellular signal is weak or unavailable.
dkmarsh—member, FineTunedMac Co-op Board of Directors
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8 |
To expand on that: the determination as to which system of call routing is used seems to vary somewhat. With major carriers, the capacity to make wifi calls is built into the phone's operating system. I'm on Verizon, and I believe that as long as I'm connected to a wifi network, that's how the calls are connected. For some carriers, it may be that wifi is only used if the cellular signal is weak or unavailable. The latter is the case with AT&T; only if the cellular signal is weak does it go with wi-fi calling.
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 8
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Joined: Aug 2009
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That still circumvents my basic question -- see #65446. I took your question to mean "how does this work?" But as others may have pointed out, if you have an Internet connection via dial-up, you may not need to have a wi-fi connection. You are on line with a dial-up; being on line is on line, regardless of how you do it. Wi-fi is just another way to get on line. In your case, you would need some software (like Skype of FaceTime) that allows you to "push buttons" to dial since your landline phone is in use.
On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16
Moderator
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Moderator
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 16 |
PMFJI with some information on network communications design that hopefully will clarify what is going on. Alright, imagine you're building a really cool tower of seven different floors, each with its own important job. This tower is called the OSI 7-layer model, and it helps computers talk to each other.
The Physical Layer (Floor 1 - "Building Blocks"):
This is like the foundation of our tower. It deals with the actual connection between devices, like the wires and cables that connect your computer to the internet.
The Data Link Layer (Floor 2 - "Getting Around Inside"):
On this floor, we make sure the data (information) can travel safely from one device to another within the same building. It's like making sure the elevator and stairs work properly.
The Network Layer (Floor 3 - "Finding the Way"):
Imagine this floor as a map. It helps the data find its way from one building to another. It's like planning the best route for a package to travel through the city.
The Transport Layer (Floor 4 - "Packaging Things Up"):
Here, we break the data into smaller packages and make sure they all arrive at the destination in the right order. It's like packing your toys in a box to send to a friend.
The Session Layer (Floor 5 - "Starting and Ending Conversations"):
This floor manages the beginning and end of conversations between computers. It's like saying "hello" and "goodbye" before and after you talk to a friend.
The Presentation Layer (Floor 6 - "Making Things Understandable"):
On this floor, we make sure the data looks and sounds the same on both sides. It's like translating a message from one language to another so that everyone can understand.
The Application Layer (Floor 7 - "Using the Apps"):
This is the top floor, where people and applications interact with the network. It's like using different apps on your tablet or computer, such as games, browsers, or messaging apps.
So, the OSI 7-layer model is like a tower where each floor has a specific job to make sure computers communicate smoothly and understand each other. How a phone call, text message, face-time call, email, or accessing this website travels is the physical layer and has nothing to do with the upper layer functions whatsoever. So your cell phone call can travel via Wi-Fi (the internet) or a cellular network depending on what is available. That decision is a function of the Network layer and is handled in the iPhone, iPad, or Mac itself as that is the only device that is aware of what resources are available to it at any given instant and a call can switch from one service to the next during a communication without interruption or loss of data. If at any point the communication uses the telephone network it will count against the appropriate service limits for both the originating and receiving phone accounts. NOTE: In practice some layers may be eliminated or conflated with an adjoining layer, but one way or another the functions are performed.
"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
Thanks all ... but none of the explanations tells me what I want to know, namely to explain what my relative cannot, as given in #65446.
All I wanted was a "simple" explanation of how one can do what was set out there. But clearly I do not have the ability to phrase what I want to know in a manner which is comprehensible to others.
So, let's just drop the whole thing ... and I'll continue to carry on in blissful ignorance — since I'll never have occasion to use any of the information about which I'm merely intellectually curious.
Happy New Year to all.
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Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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All I wanted was a "simple" explanation ... Life hasn't been simple since 1965. Happy New Year!
iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.4, 40 Gb RAM); MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
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 Re: Smartphone/WiFi/Internet
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Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4
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OP
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 4 |
You nailed it !
If there's a decade that I'd enjoy reliving, it'd be the '60s — even if it'd be only along the lines of Vanilla Sky ~ Obre los ojos.
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