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pending updates for older systems
#64252 07/19/23 11:36 AM
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jchuzi Online OP
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Since my iMac cannot go beyond Big Sur and I really don't want to get a new computer (read that as my better half gets into a panic at the thought of learning another OS), I am happy to report that Apple will continue to support Big Sur, among others. Apple issues release candidates for...acOS Big Sur 11.7.9, and Monterey 12.6.8


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: pending updates for older systems
jchuzi #64253 07/19/23 12:41 PM
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Is there really a steep learning curve to transitioning from macOS to macOS?

Re: pending updates for older systems
Gregg #64254 07/19/23 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregg
Is there really a steep learning curve to transitioning from macOS to macOS?

I would say no. It's more annoying having to find things have been moved/renamed/deleted, new graphics...

A steep learning curve is having to learn a whole new app or way of working. The worst thing about a new OS is finding out your go-to apps will no longer launch.

I have maintained a Snow Leopard partition (Adobe GoLive) on my old Mac Pro, which boots in High Sierra for the CS5 apps. On my current iMac, I have an external Mojave drive for legacy InDesign documents and DVD2One, but day-to-day is on Monterey, which I will try to keep going as long as possible.

I like Monterey.


iMac (19,1, 3.1 GHz i5, 12.7.4, 40 Gb RAM); MacBook Air (1.8 Ghz, 8 Gb RAM, 10.14.6, 256 Gb SSD) Vodafone router and Devolo Wi-Fi Extender, Canon TS8351 printer/scanner.
Re: pending updates for older systems
Gregg #64256 07/19/23 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregg
Is there really a steep learning curve to transitioning from macOS to macOS?

I agree with the comments above. I recently moved from 10.15.x to Ventura MacOS 12.x. I left a 9-year old iMac like the one Jon describes above. As long as your apps are up-to-date there should be no major hiccups. Once you start up in the latest system I found there were many application permissions that required granting; security is tighter and I had to re-allow many applications access to their usual things. This is something joemikeb has observed in his journeys through beta versions of systems.

Perhaps the most annoying thing is the organization of the System Settings (formerly Preferences). It is no longer obvious, if it ever were, where certain settings are to be found. Fortunately the Settings Search field is pretty good at producing the location.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: pending updates for older systems
Gregg #64257 07/19/23 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gregg
Is there really a steep learning curve to transitioning from macOS to macOS?

CASUAL OR AVERAGE USERS LEARNING CURVE

Even though there may be major changes under the hood, Apple works hard to make the transition from one version of macOS to the next relatively seamless for the casual, user. But, there will be changes, that effect even the casual user, such as the location of various settings, additional security precautions and permission requirements, new optional features, third-party apps that must be updated or replaced, etc. But these are normal and the learning curve is generally minimal. While the learning curve is relatively minimal between upgrades, the changes are cumulative and a casual user skips an upgrade or two may find the learning curve exponentially steeper.

POWER USER'S LEARNING CURVE

Power users, on the other hand, may find themselves faced with a steep, even precipitous, learning curve depending on the particular upgrade. Major changes in how macOS is structured and organized internally and on Apple Silicon or Intel processors has created a steep upgrade to upgrade learning curve in Big Sur, Monterey, and Ventura (macOS 11, 12, and 13).

BEST-CASE LEARNING CURVE

There is almost no learning curve upgrading from Ventura (macOS 13) to Sonoma (macOS 14) on Apple Silicon. IMHO, the smoothest Mac OS X upgrade ever. The biggest annoyance has been resetting and re-permitting all the various security permissions, and this is just the first public beta.

WORST-CASE LEARNING CURVE

Upgrading from Mojave, or earlier, on an Intel Mac to Sonoma on Apple Silicon. There is so much to unlearn and relearn, it would almost be easier to start out as a new computer user with little or no previous experience.



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
Gregg #64259 07/19/23 07:47 PM
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Agree with the other responders!

If Apple would fix the annoying bugs that have persisted for, literally, years, they'd do their users a HUGE favor, as opposed their constantly rearranging preferences that everybody's accustomed to for no discernible reason.

What Apple really needs to do is create a mind-reading spell-check that can deal with misspelled words that are other words, and words that are spelled correctly but are intended to be other words. tongue


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: pending updates for older systems
artie505 #64260 07/19/23 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
What Apple really needs to do is create a mind-reading spell-check that can deal with misspelled words that are other words, and words that are spelled correctly but are intended to be other words. tongue

Check out the latest version of LanguageTool. (It just corrected the previous sentence tongue )



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
joemikeb #64261 07/19/23 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
What Apple really needs to do is create a mind-reading spell-check that can deal with misspelled words that are other words, and words that are spelled correctly but are intended to be other words. tongue

Check out the latest version of LanguageTool. (It just corrected the previous sentence tongue )
Corrected it to its current state from what?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: pending updates for older systems
artie505 #64262 07/20/23 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
What Apple really needs to do is create a mind-reading spell-check that can deal with misspelled words that are other words, and words that are spelled correctly but are intended to be other words. tongue

Check out the latest version of LanguageTool. (It just corrected the previous sentence tongue )
Corrected it to its current state from what?

This was not the best example, but LT basically asked if Language Tool was intended as a product name, in which case the name is LanguageTool with no space. Currently, I can't think of a specific example, but LT has on several occasions questioned my use of a word and asked if I really meant something else, with suggested alternate words. It doesn't work in every application, but there are fewer and fewer places where it does not work. I tried Grammarly but found its recommended AI re-writes were either too stilted or missed the point altogether. LT doesn't go as far and I find its suggestions to be almost always preferable to my wording.



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
joemikeb #64278 07/22/23 03:03 PM
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I just hit on a specific example of LanguageTool using AI to suggest rephrasing some text. IMHO it beats H3!! out of the recommendations I received from Grammarly. LanguageTool AI example

NOTE: LT's AI takes a few seconds to think before suggesting alternatives, but so do I (hopefully at least).



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
joemikeb #64279 07/22/23 04:15 PM
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Interesting to see the before and after of the suggestions. I can't help but wonder if the end result is everyone's writings now sound the same with no sense of individuality or personality.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: pending updates for older systems
Ira L #64280 07/22/23 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ira L
Interesting to see the before and after of the suggestions. I can't help but wonder if the end result is everyone's writings now sound the same with no sense of individuality or personality.

God, I hope not. What a dreary and uninteresting world that would be.

Remember, this is in the context of a grammar checker and not an AI-generated document. All the ones I have tried offer stylistic options, and none of them require the author to accept the suggestions. I find that the size of the suggestion makes a huge difference in the results.
  • I need all the help I can get with spelling and punctuation.
  • AI-generated alternate words are definitely worth considering
  • AI-generated alternate phrasing probably means my meaning or intent is unclear, and the better option might be re-writing the entire sentence or paragraph.
  • Beyond that, I have found the AI suggestions frequently destroy any individualism in style and are boring to read. In some cases, the AI-generated suggestion contradicts what I intended. (But that is a strong indication I need to start over from scratch and clarify my meaning.)


The point being, AI-assisted grammar checking can be a useful tool, if the author doesn't let it get in the way of good writing.



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
joemikeb #64290 07/24/23 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
What Apple really needs to do is create a mind-reading spell-check that can deal with misspelled words that are other words, and words that are spelled correctly but are intended to be other words. tongue (Addendum: Both of those are the same thing.)
Check out the latest version of LanguageTool.
Thanks for the example of LanguageTool's output, but I don't need that specific functionality because I taught myself to write concisely and to the point during my seven years of writing footnotes to financial statements. (You wouldn't believe how long it has taken me to write, rewrite, re-rewrite, ad nauseam many of my FTM posts, this one included.)

What I was asking for, facetiously I thought, but perhaps not, is functionality that would tell me, based on context, that I used the wrong word from a group such as each, beach, peach, reach, and teach, all of which pass spell check. And if LanguageTool can do that, can it be limited to that specific functionality and be precluded from suggesting alternate contexts?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: pending updates for older systems
artie505 #64291 07/24/23 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
What I was asking for, facetiously I thought, but perhaps not, is functionality that would tell me, based on context, that I used the wrong word from a group such as each, beach, peach, reach, and teach, all of which pass spell check. And if LanguageTool can do that, can it be limited to that specific functionality and be precluded from suggesting alternate contexts?

The answer is a qualified yes. LT has questioned the use of a word in the context of a phrase or sentence. But, probably not to the depth you are envisioning. I have tested apps that offer deeper analysis, but the cost in time and money quickly put that beyond my reach. LT does allow you to create and manage a user specific dictionary and you can create your own style rules in addition to the standard set of rules.

By-the-way I spent fifteen years as Secretary/Treasurer for a non-profit utility district, so I have spent a fair amount of time on those %&#% footnotes myself and appreciate what you are talking about.



"All you've got to do is own up to your ignorance
honestly, and you'll find people who are eager to
fill your head with information"
--Walt Disney
Re: pending updates for older systems
joemikeb #64292 07/25/23 11:31 AM
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Thanks for your insights.

I'm going to forego LT in favor of my eyeballs. I don't quite understand how it works, but the errors I make and fail to catch while typing posts, those which I was hoping to use an app to catch, jump out at me immediately either in preview or after I've posted, and I'm going to stick with that "functionality."


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire

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