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TLS in mail
#62552 09/12/22 04:03 PM
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Today I got an email from my mail server that said in the heading:

Deactivation of TLS 1.0, TLS 1.1 and unencrypted access

It said one or more of my devices had this technology and wouldn't work after they deactivate the TLS stuff.
I looked on my server settings and it says "no TLS". I assume that makes it a moot point?

I only use apple mail on my MacBook, not my iPhone or my iMac, so I'm not sure which device they are talking about that has TLS activated. Maybe it's just a blanket email. Who knows?

It also says: If the above applies to you, (maybe it is a blanket email) please take a moment to check your POP3 and/or IMAP server settings and make sure that you have enabled an encrypted connection. I don't see any encryption options for me to choose.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62553 09/12/22 05:16 PM
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TLS (Transportation Layer Security) a.k.a. SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) provides end-to-end encryption of messages. You will find the settings....
  • macOS Mail > Preferences > Accounts > here
  • iOS Settings > Mail > Accounts > select provider > under IMAP select the account ID > Advanced > INCOMING SETTINGS
  • iPadOS Settings > Mail > Accounts > select provider > Account > Advanced > INCOMING SETTINGS


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62554 09/12/22 07:48 PM
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Mine says "no TLS certificate." That's why I think it's a moot point. Which is good, I guess, because it will not work with my mail server in the near future as they stated in the email.



Originally Posted by joemikeb
TLS (Transportation Layer Security) a.k.a. SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) provides end-to-end encryption of messages. You will find the settings....
  • macOS Mail > Preferences > Accounts > here
  • iOS Settings > Mail > Accounts > select provider > under IMAP select the account ID > Advanced > INCOMING SETTINGS
  • iPadOS Settings > Mail > Accounts > select provider > Account > Advanced > INCOMING SETTINGS


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62555 09/12/22 09:30 PM
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Sounds reasonable, but to prevent any future conflicts, verify that TLS or SSL¹ is deactivated (unchecked) in Mail's settings on your Mac, iPhone, and iPad.


Footnotes:
  1. SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) is the original name for the technology, but that name has recently been deprecated in favor of the name TLS (Transportation Layer Security) as it more accurately reflects its place in the seven layer network model.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62556 09/12/22 09:34 PM
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Joe, there is nothing to deactivate. That is what I am trying to tell you. It just says "no TLS." It's not there to deactivate. confused

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Sounds reasonable, but to prevent any future conflicts, verify that TLS or SSL¹ is deactivated (unchecked) in Mail's settings on your Mac, iPhone, and iPad.


Footnotes:
  1. SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) is the original name for the technology, but that name has recently been deprecated in favor of the name TLS (Transportation Layer Security) as it more accurately reflects its place in the seven layer network model.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62557 09/12/22 09:36 PM
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Apparently that is one of those items that only shows up if it is detected as being present.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62558 09/12/22 10:00 PM
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Yeah, I'll see what happens when they deactivate the TLS thingy on their end.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Apparently that is one of those items that only shows up if it is detected as being present.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62560 09/13/22 05:13 PM
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Eliminating TLS in these days of high security awareness somehow seems a questionable choice.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62561 09/13/22 05:30 PM
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Well I guess mail.com thinks it's important some how. Funny how all the server settings are available under mail-prefs-accounts with mail.com but there is none of that with yahoo mail on my Apple mail acct.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Eliminating TLS in these days of high security awareness somehow seems a questionable choice.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62562 09/13/22 07:06 PM
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Yahoo mail and Apple mail accounts are automatic setups, but Mail.com is a manual setup. At one time, Apple Mail made the details of the various email accounts setups visible, and IIRC Apple Mail has always required TLS/SSL to be turned on. Later when automatic setup for major email hosting sites such as Google, Yahoo, Apple, etc. were added apple chose to hide their setup parameters. Given the amount of tech support expended both by Apple and the provider's tech support organizations when user's messed up account settings, that was a genius enhancement. Unfortunately, there are so many email providers and their setup parameters change, so often it is not feasible for Apple to attempt automatic setup of any but the most popular (and troublesome?) providers.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62563 09/13/22 07:09 PM
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I guess that explains it. Though I don't get the part about tech support for those 3rd party servers. There is none! The yahoo website is useless for tech support. Can't get ahold or anyone on phone or email or forms. It's like that with a lot of companies nowadays. Can be very frustrating. I know they would have to hire tech, but that's part of doing business. They are cheaping out and leave their customers very frustrated.



Originally Posted by joemikeb
Yahoo mail and Apple mail accounts are automatic setups, but Mail.com is a manual setup. At one time, Apple Mail made the details of the various email accounts setups visible, and IIRC Apple Mail has always required TLS/SSL to be turned on. Later when automatic setup for major email hosting sites such as Google, Yahoo, Apple, etc. were added apple chose to hide their setup parameters. Given the amount of tech support expended both by Apple and the provider's tech support organizations when user's messed up account settings, that was a genius enhancement. Unfortunately, there are so many email providers and their setup parameters change, so often it is not feasible for Apple to attempt automatic setup of any but the most popular (and troublesome?) providers.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62592 09/27/22 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
I guess that explains it. Though I don't get the part about tech support for those 3rd party servers. There is none! The yahoo website is useless for tech support. Can't get ahold or anyone on phone or email or forms. It's like that with a lot of companies nowadays. Can be very frustrating. I know they would have to hire tech, but that's part of doing business. They are cheaping out and leave their customers very frustrated.

Tech support is VERY expensive and can easily be the difference in the color ink used to print the bottom line on the income statement (Ie. keeping it black instead of Red). That leaves the third party provider with few options,
  1. Cut operational costs wherever possible, beginning with non-essential services like tech support.
  2. Sell the user's data to anyone with the money to pay for it (up to and potentially including message content).
  3. Attach paid advertising to all emails (which generally costs them customers and pushes the bottom line deeper into the RED.)
  4. Provide the service on a subscription basis (which is growing more common)
  5. Discontinue the service (which benefits the competition).
  6. Go out of business (which reduces competition and arguably harms the customer).


Apple provides free email service and tech support as a marketing incentive to sell more Macs, iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, Apple TVs, etc. which is where they make their money.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62593 09/27/22 09:14 PM
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Free tech support? How so? I thought that was only via AppleCare.

Also, the CEO and other officers make a lot more than chump change for their jobs. I think they can afford tech support but want their huge salaries instead.

It's the same with utility companies and any other large company. The higher ups make outrageous salaries with poor customer service to show for it.

Sorry for the negativity but it's the truth.


Apple provides free email service and tech support as a marketing incentive to sell more Macs, iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, Apple TVs, etc. which is where they make their money. [/quote]


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62594 09/27/22 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Free tech support? How so? I thought that was only via AppleCare.

Don't confuse Applecare with Applecare+. Applecare refers to the one year warranty and 90 day complimentary telephone and in store support coverage that comes free with every Apple product. AppleCare+ is the extended warranty coverage that lasts for two years, or more if paid monthly rather than in a lump sum, and for an additional cost includes coverage for theft and loss.

As to the outrageous salaries, there is no argument that the earnings ratio between the CEO and the janitor in most companies is grossly out of line, but Apple spreads its wealth more equitably than most.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62595 09/28/22 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Don't confuse Applecare with Applecare+. Applecare refers to the one year warranty and 90 day complimentary telephone and in store support coverage that comes free with every Apple product. AppleCare+ is the extended warranty coverage that lasts for two years, or more if paid monthly rather than in a lump sum, and for an additional cost includes coverage for theft and loss.
I've always thought that the free AppleCare included with your purchase and the purchased, extended AppleCare+ covered hardware, but that tech support related to the OS is always free.

Have I been mistaken all these years?


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: TLS in mail
artie505 #62596 09/28/22 01:59 AM
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I've always thought that the free AppleCare included with your purchase and the purchased, extended AppleCare+ covered hardware, but that tech support related to the OS is always free.

Have I been mistaken all these years? [/quote]

Yes, you have been mistaken. It's hardware and support, then no support after the 3 years. Though I've been told by people on this forum that some techs will help without the AppleCare+. I just haven't had the nerve to try it.


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Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62598 09/29/22 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Artie505
I've always thought that the free AppleCare included with your purchase and the purchased, extended AppleCare+ covered hardware, but that tech support related to the OS is always free.

Have I been mistaken all these years?

Not so much mistaken as conflating hardware and software support, which are different things. AppleCare and AppleCare+ only applies to hardware, and attaches to the unique device, not to the owner/user.

There is no Warranty, AppleCare, or AppleCare+ for software (which includes macOS). All software support is free whether it is via the genius desk, telephone, chat, or Apple Discussions and lasts indefinitely. (That is not to imply Apple will update a given product version indefinitely.)

Originally Posted by plantsower
Yes, you have been mistaken. It's hardware and support, then no support after the 3 years. Though I've been told by people on this forum that some techs will help without the AppleCare+. I just haven't had the nerve to try it.

Apple's standard hardware support policy is, they will repair or replace any product that fails within five years of its manufacture (at which point it becomes antiquated) and an additional two years (when it becomes obsolete) on a parts available basis. AppleCare+ provides free hardware repair or replacement from the time the warranty expires, typically one year, until the expiration of the AppleCare+ coverage. Thereafter, the customer has to pay if repairs are required.

My experience here in the DFW area has been the Genius Desk is not overly stringent in enforcing the AppleCare+ termination date. I had a particularly troublesome iMac that finally failed completely a month or so after AppleCare+ coverage ended, and not only did the Apple Store replace my iMac with a brand new later model iMac they threw in full warranty and free AppleCare+ coverage from the date I received the new machine. But I have seen the Genius Desk turn away customers with obsolete devices.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62599 09/29/22 01:54 AM
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Joe: I have always been under the impression that after AppleCare and/or AppleCare + were expired, that I couldn't call and talk to tech unless I paid for it. That's the impression I got when I bought AppleCare+. I think other people think that, too. Can you show me in writing somewhere on Apple.com where it says tech support is free indefinitely? That would be a welcome surprise.


[quote=joemikeb][quote=Artie505]I've always thought that the free AppleCare included with your purchase and the purchased, extended AppleCare+ covered hardware, but that tech support related to the OS is always free.


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Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62617 10/01/22 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by Artie505
I've always thought that the free AppleCare included with your purchase and the purchased, extended AppleCare+ covered hardware, but that tech support related to the OS is always free.

Have I been mistaken all these years?

Not so much mistaken as conflating hardware and software support, which are different things. AppleCare and AppleCare+ only applies to hardware, and attaches to the unique device, not to the owner/user.
I thought that's what I was saying.

Thanks for the confirmation.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: TLS in mail
plantsower #62620 10/01/22 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
Joe: I have always been under the impression that after AppleCare and/or AppleCare + were expired, that I couldn't call and talk to tech unless I paid for it. That's the impression I got when I bought AppleCare+. I think other people think that, too. Can you show me in writing somewhere on Apple.com where it says tech support is free indefinitely? That would be a welcome surprise.

After diligent searches, the only thing I found was Most Apple HARDWARE {emphasis mine} comes with a one-year limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary technical support. Then I found this Eclecticlight article on the subject.

In over twenty-fiver years of Apple use, I have never been asked about AppleCare or AppleCare+ status when contacting Apple by phone, chat, or Discussion about a software problem. Additionally, I have never paid a dime for an Apple software upDATE, and it has been over ten years since I paid for an Apple software upGRADE. My wife was questioned about attending a New User class at the Apple Store, as it had been nearly six months since she purchased the device, but they let her attend free of charge.

Last edited by joemikeb; 10/01/22 04:06 PM.

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: TLS in mail
joemikeb #62622 10/01/22 04:23 PM
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I will keep that in mind if I can't get answers here. Though the truth is people here have been a lot more helpful with answers to my questions than Apple Tech was whenever I've called them. They tried hard and were willing to give me unlimited time (except when I occasionally got that snarky individual who acted like I was bothering them). So, I now can have the best of both worlds. Thanks for the info.


Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
Joe: I have always been under the impression that after AppleCare and/or AppleCare + were expired, that I couldn't call and talk to tech unless I paid for it. That's the impression I got when I bought AppleCare+. I think other people think that, too. Can you show me in writing somewhere on Apple.com where it says tech support is free indefinitely? That would be a welcome surprise.

After diligent searches, the only thing I found was Most Apple HARDWARE {emphasis mine} comes with a one-year limited warranty and up to 90 days of complimentary technical support. Then I found this Eclecticlight article on the subject.

In over twenty-fiver years of Apple use, I have never been asked about AppleCare or AppleCare+ status when contacting Apple by phone, chat, or Discussion about a software problem. Additionally, I have never paid a dime for an Apple software upDATE, and it has been over ten years since I paid for an Apple software upGRADE. My wife was questioned about attending a New User class at the Apple Store, as it had been nearly six months since she purchased the device, but they let her attend free of charge.


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