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Force eject sign always coming up
#61984 06/28/22 11:45 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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GEt this constantly. all time now. Especially with APFS, volumes... Need to force eject cause one of more problems may be using it. IN fact nothing is using the disk. Then says may cause problems if force eject STuck, what going on? thanks!

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #61995 06/29/22 11:56 AM
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There may be an unseen process using it. Before you force-eject, see if Activity Monitor shows anything. You can kill the offending process via AM.


Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #61996 06/29/22 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
IN fact nothing is using the disk. Then says may cause problems if force eject STuck, what going on? thanks!

That you know of, but there may be all sorts of activity going on in the background or it may be that a previous task that has already completed but failed to release the drive.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #61998 06/29/22 05:37 PM
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Thanks guys great. Yes when look at dock, is seems nothing using is. Ok will try to remember to look at activity monitor, but monitor wont way what using app either right?

Another question. Just notice, if you choose to force eject, little sign comes up saying not Kosher.. ha ha.. ie creating damage doing that to the drive? Correct. So all recommended not force ejecting if don't have to?

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #61999 06/29/22 07:08 PM
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In the past (a different OS, can't remember which), the Force-Quit dialog box named the application that was in use. Do you see anything like that?

EDIT: I just remembered that the situation was slightly different. I had booted from a clone in order to run Disk Warrior on the internal drive. I got a message that that drive could not be unmounted by DW because it was in use, and two Adobe processes were mentioned. I used Activity Monitor to kill those processes and was able to use DW.

Last edited by jchuzi; 06/29/22 07:21 PM.

Jon

macOS 11.7.10, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
jchuzi #62000 06/29/22 07:36 PM
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Don't think so Jon.

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62001 06/29/22 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks guys great. Yes when look at dock, is seems nothing using is. Ok will try to remember to look at activity monitor, but monitor wont way what using app either right?

Activity Monitor tells you what tasks are reading and writing to a disk. and it tells what user the task belongs to. It does not tell you what disk or what volume the task is reading or writing to. In the case where a task quits without releasing the drive then Activity Monitor may not tell you anything. There used to be a Terminal command that would tell you what tasks are accessing what volume, but either it has been deprecated and removed from macOS or I forgot what the command is/was.

There are any number of both system and user tasks that may be accessing any given drive at any given time. The most common system owned suspects are Disk Utility, Time Machine and Spotlight. Among user tasks, Carbon Copy Cloner, Hazel, SpamSeive, Keyboard Maestro, and almost any app that monitors the system in any way have all been implicated at one time or another.

If this is happening often Spotlight would be high on my list of suspects and the classical "fix" for anything to do with Spotlight is rebuilding the Spotlight index following Apple's Instructions then leave your computer running, go to bed, get a good night's sleep and by the time you wake up the next morning it should be finished.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62002 06/29/22 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
There used to be a Terminal command that would tell you what tasks are accessing what volume, but either it has been deprecated and removed from macOS or I forgot what the command is/was.
Code
ps -ax
Works for me in 12.4/10.16.4 Monterey.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
artie505 #62066 07/15/22 05:18 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Have to ask; how bad is doing force eject. IS much better to try not to ever do that, as harms hard drives?

I'm getting now on even sparse, "virtual" drives, and quit Word, still wont eject unless do force ,or wait it out.. For sparse same question if do force eject too much could corrupt the sparse drive?

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62067 07/15/22 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by keys
I'm getting now on even sparse, "virtual" drives, and quit Word, still wont eject unless do force ,or wait it out.. For sparse same question if do force eject too much could corrupt the sparse drive?

When an app opens a file for read/write access, a "flag" is set in the OS indicting a file is open. Normally that flag is removed when you take any action in the application to close the file, including saving the file or quitting the application (⌘S, ⇧⌘W, ⇧⌘S, ⌘Q, etc.). The principal risk arises when the file directory is being updated. A disconnect in that brief instant of time can leave the volume directory in an undetermined state and therefore damaged and increasing the possibility of a "cross-linked" file. Twenty years ago, cross-linked files were relatively common, but changes in hardware and software over the past two decades have made cross-linked files almost unheard of. I don't remember the last time I heard of one occurring but, the possibility, and the warning from the system, still exists.

In summary: force disconnects are undesirable, but the risk is minimal. The risk is the same each time a force disconnects occurs. However, force disconnects should not be necessary and consistent force connects is unacceptable.

Refresh my memory:
  1. Is this only happening in any application other than Word?
  2. are you running the latest version of Word for Mac available? If not, why not?
  3. have you reinstalled Word? If not, why not?
  4. other than familiarity, is there any reason you cannot use a different work processor?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62068 07/15/22 10:13 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe,

Word is a guess, though when opened Sparse image today, I did open word, typed, saved, quit, no hope, still needs a force eject.

Am I over worrying or would you just do the force eject and not worry about it? That's what been doing.

Does not come up every time, but yeah, see them, disc is being used, with other externals.. (The sparse, is what.. it's virtual?)

So worry is negligible to force eject? AGain, not consistent, but enough to be annoying, but if you say, just force eject those desultory instances, I'd go with that.. checking seem how harmful

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62069 07/16/22 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks Joe,

Word is a guess, though when opened Sparse image today, I did open word, typed, saved, quit, no hope, still needs a force eject.

Was the file you typed, saved, quit on the file/volume/sparse image you had to force quit?

Originally Posted by keys
Am I over worrying, or would you just do the force eject and not worry about it? That's what been doing.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but it should not be happening and is a possible indicator of underlying issues.

Originally Posted by keys
Does not come up every time, but yeah, see them, disc is being used, with other externals..

Specifically, are you having to force quit a physical drive, a sparse image volume on a drive, or what? What is being used with what other externals?

Originally Posted by keys
(The sparse, is what.. it's virtual?)

When you use the term virtual I would remind you that every data structure seen by the user in APFS is virtual in that the organized structure we see and interact with has little or nothing to do with how, or where, that data is physically stored and organized. It is merely one layer in a deep stack of virtualizations. A convenient illusion to make the computer comprehensible to e poor benighted humans, like us. It is an over-simplification to say, a sparse image file is a file that appears to the operating system as if it were a volume. Sparse images are that, but with numerous complications, and were originally used for Time-Machine storage. APFS volumes are also virtual but at a much deeper level in the hierarchy, making them more stable, and have supplanted sparse image files in Time Machine. I don't know why you use sparse image files, but I have to believe APFS volumes would be a significantly superior option.

Originally Posted by keys
So worry is negligible to force eject? AGain, not consistent, but enough to be annoying, but if you say, just force eject those desultory instances, I'd go with that.. checking seem how harmful

To reiterate: "I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but it should not be happening and is a possible indicator of underlying issues" and I would want to know why they are happening at all in case there is something else untoward going on.

You ducked my previous questions...
Originally Posted by joemikeb
Refresh my memory:
  1. Is this only happening in any application other than Word?
  2. are you running the latest version of Word for Mac available? If not, why not?
  3. have you reinstalled Word? If not, why not?
  4. other than familiarity, is there any reason you cannot use a different work processor?

and now I have added
  1. Was the file you typed, saved, quit on the file/volume/sparse image you had to force quit?
  2. Specifically, are you having to force quit a physical drive, a sparse image volume on a drive, or what?
  3. What is being used with what other externals?

If you are interested in pursuing this further, specific answers to those questions could help save a lot of time spent chasing our collective tails.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62070 07/16/22 01:42 AM
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kevs Offline OP
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Ok Joe, just quit, restarted, opened that sparse image, opened a Word doc, saved, closed, and then ejected fine.

Checked Word, and says up to day. So who knows.. (I do have Crash plan running I guess in background, but that sparse is excluded from being copied to cloud (crashplan).

Then earlier in thread, someone mentioned could have things in the background..... TM who knows..

So can't seem to pin point this. Happens on sparse, but also intermittently on externals... not sure what pattern is.. (try to keep the "what I doing before ejecting" antenna up. Good into..

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62073 07/16/22 04:46 PM
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Intermittent issues like this are notoriously difficult to troubleshoot, and often the only way of finding out what is going on is by looking at the log files. Unfortunately, the log files are generally comprehensible only to developers with access to the actual code. However, with a bit of luck, someone here might be able to discern what is going from the log entries.

The next time you get the disconnect error and
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE
...
  1. In the /Applications/Utilities folder, launch Console
  2. In the Console sidebar, click on system log
  3. Copy the last 20 or 30 lines from the log
  4. paste those lines into a reply to this thread and post it
  5. keep your fingers crossed for luck


With luck, someone here will be able to interpret the log and identify the problem.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62081 07/17/22 12:21 AM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe, this is not a disconnect error. The hard drives are are not disconnecting.

They were before... bailed on 2 and bought 2 new one, that is ok now...Now it's me ejecting and occasionally getting the "hard drive is still in use would you like to force eject"

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62083 07/17/22 04:33 PM
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Let me rephrase my previous response...

The next time you attempt to disconnect any drive and receive the "...Drive in use" message...
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE...

  1. In the /Applications/Utilities folder, launch Console
  2. In the Console sidebar, click on system log
  3. Copy the last 20 or 30 lines from the log
  4. paste those lines into a reply to this thread and post it
  5. keep your fingers crossed for luck


With luck, someone here will be able to interpret the log and identify the problem, but to be honest, drive use is generally highly transitory, and is likely to prove very difficult to trap.

NEW QUESTION:

Just to be sure we are dealing with the right issue, I need to know WHY YOU ARE DISCONNECTING DRIVES?


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62084 07/17/22 11:26 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Joe, well the sparse ones are password protected, so when done looking I eject.

And then often some of the external volumes I have up, maybe I want to clear the desktop....
but , ok hold onto this and keep antenna up and do that.. report back. Thanksl

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62085 07/18/22 03:07 AM
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Have you tried running the Terminal command I posted?

Next time that alert comes up, before you do anything else, enter
Code
ps -ax
in Terminal, and you'll get a looong list of every process that's running on your Mac at the moment.
Then, post the entire list and tell us the exact name of the volume, and that will enable us to search the list to see which, if any, processes are running in it.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
artie505 #62087 07/19/22 03:28 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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here Joe logs

com.apple.mkb.internal".
Output parameters from ASL Module "com.apple.mkb.internal" override any specified in ASL Module "com.apple.mkb".
Jul 19 00:30:04 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: Configuration Notice:
ASL Module "com.apple.mkb" claims selected messages.
Those messages may not appear in standard system log files or in the ASL database.
Jul 19 00:30:04 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: Configuration Notice:
ASL Module "com.apple.MessageTracer" claims selected messages.
Those messages may not appear in standard system log files or in the ASL database.
Jul 19 00:36:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 00:46:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 00:57:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 01:08:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 02:59:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:10:45 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:21:49 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:32:34 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:44:20 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 04:06:45 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:07:43 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:21:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:31:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:41:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:48:56 iMac-2 DriveDx[595]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 19 06:49:26 --- last message repeated 71 times ---
Jul 19 06:52:10 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:00:44 iMac-2 DriveDx[595]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 19 07:01:14 --- last message repeated 79 times ---
Jul 19 07:02:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:14:21 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:30:07 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:46:23 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:56:27 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 08:06:30 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 08:25:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics




What weird this one today upper right monitor

https://imgur.com/a/PKqV2ZR

Super Duper did a 7am smart update, but that is set to no do anything, and in face all the externals are on desktop, don't see anything was ejected... and did not do a reboot to bring that back, so odd.

Last edited by kevs; 07/19/22 03:30 PM.
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62088 07/19/22 04:57 PM
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The notification in the image you posted above reminds me of some of the messages I used to get. Turns out they were the result of a power fluctuation during the night. Not enough to cause a power outage, which I would have noticed (reset the microwave clock grin ), but enough to cause the Mac to "hiccup", even with the Mac on a battery backup power supply, causing the notices of improper HD ejection. This was with hard drives connected directly to the Mac's USB ports. The problem seems to have disappeared for me, and I don't recall doing anything in particular.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
Ira L #62089 07/19/22 05:05 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Ira, and your external hardrives were not really ejeted?

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62090 07/19/22 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by keys
What weird this one today upper right monitor

https://imgur.com/a/PKqV2ZR

That looks like a different issue to me. There is a known issue with Thunderbolt drives disconnecting, but I had not previously associated it with USB connected drives. Apple is known to have been working on a fix for years now, but the work-around is: In system Preferences > Energy Saver...
  • Click on "Power" and turn on (check) the item labeled "Prevent your Mac From Sleeping when the display sleeps"
  • Turn off (uncheck) the item labeled "Put hard disks to sleep when possible"
  • Click on Schedule be sure "Sleep" is not turned on


Try that for a while and see if the disconnect messages do not go away. It cured a similar problem with drives in my RAID array disconnecting, disappearing, and getting out of sync.

As to your log file, I don't see anything untoward in what you sent. frown

NOTE: If the idea of your computer drawing power and not being productive bothers you, as it bothers me, consider downloading and installing BOINC, pick a few interesting projects and donate those unused computer cycles to various scientific endeavors. (Over the years I have contributed over ten million computational units to various projects such as mapping the galaxy, and looking for a cure for cancer.)


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
joemikeb #62091 07/19/22 08:26 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks JOe, energy saver I have what you say first two, but last I do schedule to sleep from midnight to 7am.

What said, what guess on this error of ejecting, especially since, I still see the hardrived are mounted? Is that odd?

Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62092 07/20/22 02:25 PM
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From my experience, it would appear the issue may be one of timing rather than the drive being actually dismounted. The system attempts to access the drive and because it is asleep (powered down) and has to spin up the disk and position the read/write heads, so the drive is abnormally slow to respond. As a result, the I/O request to the drive times out and an error condition is raised. The system "sees" this as a disconnect. The workaround keeps the drive rotating, thus reducing the response delay below the timeout threshold. In other words, the system momentarily sees the drive as disconnected. As far as I know, this only effects hard drives.

As I think about it, a long (say 2 meters, or more) or poor quality connecting cable could contribute to a delayed response from the drive and increase the risk of raising a disconnect error.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: Force eject sign always coming up
kevs #62093 07/20/22 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks Ira, and your external hardrives were not really ejeted?

They were ejected—that's why the "not properly ejected" notice appeared for me—but re-mounted once the power hiccup passed. And as joemikeb points out in the post above, my issue could also have been what he describes. They were USB connected hard drives.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 24" M1 iMac, M2 Pro Mac mini with 27" BenQ monitor, M2 Macbook Air, MacOS 14.x; iPhones, iPods (yes, still) and iPads.
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