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More about Thunderbolt 4
#58302 03/13/21 05:08 PM
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Among the changes in M1 Macs is the transition from Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 4. This Rocket Yard Blog from OWC is an excellent exposition of the differences. As much as it hurts my pocket, I may decide to upgrade some of my cabling after reading it. 😳


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58303 03/13/21 05:26 PM
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I haven't digested it fully...don't know if I ever will, but my first impression is that Thunderbolt 4 is ridiculous overkill for my needs and perhaps those of a significant percentage of users.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
artie505 #58304 03/13/21 06:23 PM
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Seems to be getting more and more confusing! First there was Thunderbolt, then Thunderbolt 2, then Thunderbolt 3, and now Thunderbolt 4. My late 2018 has 4 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and my 2017 MacBook Air has a Thunderbolt 2 port. Can be a challenge in deciding which peripherals one can connect to such ports.

Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
MartyByrde #58305 03/14/21 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I haven't digested it fully...don't know if I ever will, but my first impression is that Thunderbolt 4 is ridiculous overkill for my needs and perhaps those of a significant percentage of users.
Let's face it, performance drives the market for new computers and devices.

Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Seems to be getting more and more confusing! First there was Thunderbolt, then Thunderbolt 2, then Thunderbolt 3, and now Thunderbolt 4. My late 2018 has 4 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and my 2017 MacBook Air has a Thunderbolt 2 port. Can be a challenge in deciding which peripherals one can connect to such ports.
With proper adaptors for Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt 2 devices all Thunderbolt ports are backward compatible but at successively lower speeds and capabilities. As I view it, the biggest enhancement of Thunderbolt 4 over Thunderbolt 3 are the ability to be distributed as well as daisy-chained which, for users like me with lots of high speed external drives and other devices, is a Godsend. Eliminating the single data channel option in the standard (20 Gbps vs 40 Gbps) was overdue because few of the single channel cables were properly marked and sometimes (often?) were misleadingly marketed.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58308 03/14/21 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
I haven't digested it fully...don't know if I ever will, but my first impression is that Thunderbolt 4 is ridiculous overkill for my needs and perhaps those of a significant percentage of users.
Let's face it, performance drives the market for new computers and devices.

Yup, as Tom Cruse said, "I feel the need, the need for speed!".

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Seems to be getting more and more confusing! First there was Thunderbolt, then Thunderbolt 2, then Thunderbolt 3, and now Thunderbolt 4. My late 2018 has 4 Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports, and my 2017 MacBook Air has a Thunderbolt 2 port. Can be a challenge in deciding which peripherals one can connect to such ports.
With proper adaptors for Thunderbolt and Thunderbolt 2 devices all Thunderbolt ports are backward compatible but at successively lower speeds and capabilities. As I view it, the biggest enhancement of Thunderbolt 4 over Thunderbolt 3 are the ability to be distributed as well as daisy-chained which, for users like me with lots of high speed external drives and other devices, is a Godsend. Eliminating the single data channel option in the standard (20 Gbps vs 40 Gbps) was overdue because few of the single channel cables were properly marked and sometimes (often?) were misleadingly marketed.

I suspect that is the case. For now, I am good to go, as I don't plan on buying an M1-based Mac in the near future. If I did, it would be a MacBook Air. But still have a while to go with that, as more software needs to be compatible, and of course so would Carbon Copy Cloner (and maybe SuperDuper!).

Just out of curiosity, is there an external "Thunderbolt 4" hub with various ports on it?

Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58310 03/14/21 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by artie505
I haven't digested it fully...don't know if I ever will, but my first impression is that Thunderbolt 4 is ridiculous overkill for my needs and perhaps those of a significant percentage of users.
Let's face it, performance drives the market for new computers and devices.

Perhaps my problem with some of the endless performance advances we're seeing is lack of perspective.

1. They don't seem to me to be as important as respects connectivity between devices as they would were they to affect machine performance, so, for instance, although I can get 1 GB Internet service if I want it, I won't, because my 100 MB service is quite sufficient for my needs (and I'm not one to pay for bigger, better "toys" just because they're offered to me).
2. I'm far enough removed from the "real" world to have absolutely no idea what "the masses" require of their Macs, so can you venture a guess as to what percentage of users actually require the kind of connectivity speed that Thunderbolt 4 offers, i.e. are there so many "race car drivers" out there that their needs have spilled over and now govern what we "street drivers" have to buy?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
artie505 #58313 03/14/21 02:59 PM
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What users NEED and what they BUY are two different things.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58315 03/14/21 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
What users NEED and what they BUY are two different things.

On the one hand, "Touché!"

But on the other hand, especially when they're not given a choice.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58317 03/14/21 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
What users NEED and what they BUY are two different things.

Exactly! For myself, if I were to purchase an M1-based Mac now, I would need a Thunderbolt 4 "hub" with various ports on it. That's because I still have a USB Mouse from Logitech, an external USB-connected SSD for my backups, and my new Samsung T7 external 1 TB USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 SSD, And that is what I would need to buy. In fact, such a hub is REQUIRED in my case.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 03/14/21 05:37 PM.
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58321 03/14/21 06:27 PM
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Marketing. Marketing. Marketing. ("Marcia. Marcia. Marcia.")


Actual need OR the illusion of need? Often it can be hard to tell the difference.

Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
MartyByrde #58322 03/14/21 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Exactly! For myself, if I were to purchase an M1-based Mac now, I would NEED a Thunderbolt 4 "hub" with various ports on it. That's because I still have a USB Mouse from Logitech, an external USB-connected SSD for my backups, and my new Samsung T7 external 1 TB USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 SSD, And that is what I would need to BUY.
M1 Macs have two USB 3.0 ports which should take care of your Logitech mouse and backup drive, and two Thunderbolt 4 ports so you can connect your Samsung T7 and still have one to spare and you would have no need for any other external USB or Thunderbolt port or hub. confused

I am using USB and Thunderbolt hubs because my system is a bit more elaborate than yours. I generally have four to six USB 3.0 (≤5 Gbps) devices and slots for up to seven more via two USB 3.0 hubs to the two USB 3.0 ports on the M1 Mac mini. I also have four USB 3.1 Gen 2 (a.k.a. USB 3.2) 10 Gbps devices connected to a USB 3.1 Gen 2 hub (which was not easy to find) connected to the USB 3.2 port on this Thunderbolt 4 hub which in turn connects to one of the two Thunderbolt 4 ports on the M1, and testing shows all are performing at full speed 😎. The Thunderbolt 4 hub also connects a Thunderbolt 3 monitor (40 Gbps), a Thunderbolt 3 SSD (40 Gbps), and a Thunderbolt 2 RAID array (20 Gbps) all operating at their full rated data throughput. The second Thunderbolt 4 port on the M1 connects a single Thunderbolt 3 SSD which is the only way I have been able to successfully create a bootable external SSD 🤷‍♂️ and I haven't even mentioned the possibilities for multiple displays or Bluetooth devices.

The point is between the built-in USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt 3 ports on M1 Macs there is enormous flexibility to adapt to each user's current and changing future needs and/or desires and that still leaves the HDMI port and bluetooth connections.

Originally Posted by MG2009
Marketing. Marketing. Marketing. ("Marcia. Marcia. Marcia.")


Actual need OR the illusion of need? Often it can be hard to tell the difference.
If my computer configuration sounds bad, you should see my workshop.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: More about Thunderbolt 4
joemikeb #58324 03/14/21 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by MartyByrde
Exactly! For myself, if I were to purchase an M1-based Mac now, I would NEED a Thunderbolt 4 "hub" with various ports on it. That's because I still have a USB Mouse from Logitech, an external USB-connected SSD for my backups, and my new Samsung T7 external 1 TB USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 SSD, And that is what I would need to BUY.
M1 Macs have two USB 3.0 ports which should take care of your Logitech mouse and backup drive, and two Thunderbolt 4 ports so you can connect your Samsung T7 and still have one to spare and you would have no need for any other external USB or Thunderbolt port or hub. confused

Thanks! Actually, I have a USB hub which I need to my Canon printer and Apple keyboard (using that on my late 2018 Mac Mini).


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