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the New Chip
#57748 02/03/21 06:51 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Just read that the new chip finally came out on new Mac products? I have a Macbook Air, (about eight years old) current on Catalina. Is this the time to upgrade that... or better, when would be the limit to keep the old one I have? Thanks.

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57752 02/03/21 07:48 PM
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Personally, I think the M1 Macs are too new for other than hard-core bleeding edge people like joemike (who has expressed some frustrations about his).

As for your MBA, the only real limit to its useful life is as long as it works and is able to run the apps and access the websites you need.

You eventually won't be able to upgrade it to the newest version of macOS, but neither age nor that will necessarily make it obsolete.


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Re: the New Chip
kevs #57754 02/03/21 08:19 PM
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To find the model of your MacBook Air, or any other Mac, click on the Apple logo at the extreme upper left of your screen and select "About This Mac" from the drop down menu. If your MacBook Air is a Mid 2013 or earlier model, by Apple's long standing published policy, it is officially obsolete which means that Apple will no longer support it in any manor. If you take it to the Apple Store, they are not allowed to work on it and if there is a physical problem it is doubtful that parts would be available to fix it. In other words it is probably time to retire it and move on.

I have one of the new M1 Macs, it is a Mac mini but the Apple silicon inside is identical, to that used in the MacBook Air and 13" MacBook Pro. It is blazingly fast, but there are differences and at the moment limitations. You can find extensive threads on M1 Macs here, and here. But these are just teething problems.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: the New Chip
joemikeb #57755 02/03/21 08:29 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Joe, thanks, it's 2012. Working perfectly fine for it's limited use: Mostly internet, email, some travel. Occasional photoshop. On Catalina.

If it goes to Big Sur later at what point could it become dangerous not getting security updates? ie. maybe could use year more? or 2?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57758 02/03/21 09:02 PM
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I previously owned a 2012 MacBook Air, and it always worked well. "Moved up" to a late 2018 model, and again, all is well. But, due to always having "I feel the need, the need for speed", the new M1 model is definitely mouth watering. However, there are still too many software issues for me to deal with, one of them being the problem with both SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner. Hence I am holding off on any kind of move to M1 Macs.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/03/21 09:46 PM.
Re: the New Chip
kevs #57764 02/04/21 01:02 AM
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According to Mactracker your 20112 MacBook Air will not go to Big Sur and stops at Catalina. You will likely have another year or maybe two of security updates after that you are on your own.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: the New Chip
joemikeb #57768 02/04/21 06:00 AM
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Thanks I think the UPdates offer Big Sur, but maybe does not know its 2012 laptop?

Do you know later when final update is, do they tell you? You would not keep it after that because when go online.. thats the main point of insecurity going online etc

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57776 02/05/21 12:52 AM
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Apple does not contact individual users to tell them their machine has become obsolete, but they do make annual announcements of what devices have gone obsolete in that year. OS updates are different, Apple stops development of the OS about the time time the next version is released but critical security patches may be released for the next year. So if your MacBook Air does not support Big Sur it is unlikely you will see any security patches beyond September 2021, but there are occasional rare exceptions.

As to knowing what Mac you have, if the App Store doesn't pick up on it, the installer definitely will.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: the New Chip
joemikeb #57779 02/05/21 05:14 PM
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FWIW, I just helped a friend with her 2012 MacBook Air...it still had MacOS 10.8 Mountain Lion installed and as a result it was having issues with browsing and email as today's requirements for same were not being met by the installed software suites.

When I checked for updates, it came back as "NO UPDATES AVAILABLE"! It seems there was no path to update beyond 10.8.5 without at least one intermediate upgrade to 10.9....

Long story short (I know, too late!) - It was ultimately updated all the way to Catalina 10.15.7.....and the Software Update alert was still nagging to upgrade to Big Sur, even though the hardware wouldn't support it.


Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.
Re: the New Chip
MacManiac #57780 02/05/21 06:30 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Joe.

Ok Maniac, your getting to the core of what want know: I'm the kind guy, if I like something I'll keep it for 20 years. So I would keep my Macbook air for 10 more years. But yes, is used for internet, apple Mail etc.

Hence when is last month/ year, you would use it before bailing and buying a new laptop? (ie even if is seems to be doing everything ok?)

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57781 02/05/21 06:59 PM
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I am using a MacBook Air one year older than yours and have toyed with the idea of replacing it. My use is very similar to yours. What would motivate me to replace it is my patience, or lack thereof. When a web page is too slow to load or interact, when apps take too long to load, when I get impatient for the startup to end, when it cannot take advantage of faster Internet; all of those "minor" annoyances would motivate me to replace it. Of course if a critical application stopped working, that would motivate me even more. I'm not quite there yet.


On a Mac since 1984.
Currently: 27" iMacs, Macbook Air, macOS 10.15.x,; iPhones, iPods and iPads galore!
Re: the New Chip
Ira L #57784 02/05/21 07:37 PM
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Ira, thanks, and I wanted to add to my question for Mania, Joe or You:

Again: what latest month/ year you would hang on.
Advantage to hanging on a bit, ie, you get a later, greater machine, maybe less buggy?
What sell old one independently, craigs list, ($300 guess?); or trade into Apple, $ 100 guess?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57789 02/05/21 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Again: what latest month/ year you would hang on.
You don't want buy answer to that question, I always lust for the latest and greatest.

[quote-keys]Advantage to hanging on a bit, ie, you get a later, greater machine, maybe less buggy?[/quote]
The advantage to hanging on a bit longer is you will never get a cheaper machine than the one you already have. As far as "buginess" goes, upgrading usually trades the bugs you know for a new set of bugs. On the other hand as Ira pointed out the older a machine is the slower it is. (It may or may not actually slow down, but it will certainly seem slower when compared to the latest generation computers. It is also true that when cruising the web, the sites become more complex and take more CPU cycles to download and render slowing the actual on-line experience.

Originally Posted by keys
What sell old one independently, craigs list, ($300 guess?); or trade into Apple, $ 100 guess?
Apple's trade-in may not be the top dollar but it is safe and so easy even I can't mess it up. On the other hand Apple probably won't offer a trade-in for a Mac as old as yours. Once a machine hits the point of official obsolescence its value long since dropped into two digits rather than three. In that case Apple's best offer will be to salvage it for you at no cost. You can easily get their offer by initiating the process of buying a new Mac and they will tell you their best offer before you have to commit to purchasing.

Although I am sure I will get some static for saying this, given the way you describe your computer use, I would urge you to consider an iPad to replace your Mac. It would be less expensive, have fewer problems, longer battery life, smaller, easier to carry, cheaper apps, and would have more than adequate speed and power for your needs. In that case, unless you elected to save ~$100 by going without a cellular modem, I would advise waiting until some time in the next year when Apple switches to their own 5G modems.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: the New Chip
joemikeb #57790 02/05/21 10:03 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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JOe, thanks, I have Ipad pro, great for reading magzine articles, I hate it for everything else. Laptop still killes it for doing any kind of work with keyboard IMO, and Mac OS still way better than IOS IMO (matches imac)

No bugs at all on laptop, so that being said, I could wait till ..?

This was confusing answer: "You don't want buy answer to that question, I always lust for the latest and greatest."

I don't lust at all for latest, so could wait till something is dangerous, is kind of what I'm asking... 1 year more, or more..? anyone know/ guess? ANd longer I wait, I will get the later.. greater one at that point right?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57792 02/05/21 11:13 PM
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Hi Kevs, since I type my responses rather than dictate them like JoeMikeB, the typos you get from me are honest mistakes rather than misinterpretations by the dictation process.....

I can't give you a month/day/year specifically, but keeping your current laptop for the next year or so would sound reasonable to me.....the real driving factor for a hardware replacement is when it no longer adequately supports your needs with the software in-place at that time.

In other words, if your browsing, emailing, searching efforts are all still working fine in a year, then you can evaluate the hardware upgrade question again at that time.


Freedom is never free....thank a Service member today.
Re: the New Chip
MacManiac #57793 02/06/21 02:03 AM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks Mac, nice common sense ideas... thanks Joe as always too!

Only other concern Mac: Security updates.... So use laptop for internet, you think that 1 million someone happening there? As long as don't access sensitive sites like banks etc?

Last edited by kevs; 02/06/21 03:23 AM.
Re: the New Chip
kevs #57794 02/06/21 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kevs
Thanks Mac, nice common sense ideas... thanks Joe as always too!

Only other concern Mac: Security updates.... So use laptop for internet, you think that 1 million someone happening there? As long as don't access sensitive sites like banks etc?

These days, it's just about impossible to purchase something from an on-line retailer without using a credit card. Also, it is always imperative to make a concerted effort to check on your accounts you have at banks. If you don't do any shopping (and thus avoid using a credit card), and yes also avoid banking sites (makes it difficult to check on your accounts), you "should" be safe. But I much prefer to have the latest security features there, and hence always using the latest version of the Mac OS, and the latest version of each application I have (I use third party applications exclusively).

But I just had a very recent incident happen, even though I do have all the latest security updates. On Sunday evening, I was basically "bombarded" with a number of bogus/fraudulent transactions. They all came via Walmart.com, and most of them were associated with a credit card I had not used in over 3 months. And one of them was with a credit card I had canceled (was also due to another prior fraudulent transaction, and the credit card was replaced). Fortunately, I was able to get all of those transactions rejected/disposed of.

So, while I make every effort regarding security with my software and internet activities, issues can still happen. I am very, very diligent about frequently checking all my accounts/credit cards, and if I notice anything suspicious, I jump on it immediately.

Last edited by MartyByrde; 02/06/21 06:31 AM.
Re: the New Chip
MartyByrde #57795 02/06/21 12:51 PM
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As to security of credit cards, I have only praise for Discover. They notify me immediately, by email AND telephone, of any questionable charges and require me to verify them. Some of those charges have been legitimate, but others were definitely not made by me. Discover immediately cancelled my card and sent a replacement overnight.

MasterCard, on the other hand, is not nearly as good. My wife's MC card (she rarely uses it) was cancelled without notification and she didn't know for six months, when she tried to use it. A fraudulent charge had been made but they never told her! We had to phone KeyBank (which administers her MC) to find out what had happened. It took a week before she got a replacement.

Whenever I have had to phone Discover, I have had no problem getting to a real, live human. In contrast, KeyBank makes me jump through too many hoops in their automated phone system.


Jon

macOS 11.6.1, iMac Retina 5K 27-inch, late 2014, 3.5 GHz Intel Core i5, 1 TB fusion drive, 16 GB RAM, Epson SureColor P600, Photoshop CC, Lightroom CC, MS Office 365
Re: the New Chip
jchuzi #57796 02/06/21 06:35 PM
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Bank of America and Capitol One both notified me, via EMail, right after the questionable transactions "arrived". For the prior issue I had with my older (now gone) Capitol One card, I actually first got notified by Apple about the fraudulent activity. But called Capitol One right away, and they took good care of me.

Still a scary situation. No matter how careful one is, seems that these scammers are getting more and more nefarious in their methods. That's why it is so, so critical to frequently monitor the activity on ALL accounts one has.

Re: the New Chip
MartyByrde #57797 02/06/21 10:44 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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Thanks guys. I was on a trip 7 years ago in Europe with two credit cards and at once, both would not work at ATMs, Both card companies demanded verification.. That is how how bad it's gotten.

That said, I have a hard time understanding how the security upgrades in the Mac OS ties into that?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57799 02/07/21 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
That said, I have a hard time understanding how the security upgrades in the Mac OS ties into that?

It ties in indirectly as an example of how the risk has grown and continues to grow. Every new upgrade and update to an Apple OS and/or its built-in apps includes new protections for the latest round of threats. Almost every day now I hit at least one site or a URL that Safari, or my router, denies access to for security reasons. Even something a banal as access to various Amazon stores is often blocked because the url is redirected through a third party url, a gimmick used by scammers to harvest user id's passwords and a variety of other information. By-the-way unless you opened and examined the url you would be totally unaware of the redirection. While you may never log onto you bank's for credit card web site you would be shocked at how much a scammer can infer about you from crumbs in the totality of your internet activity. Easily enough to open credit card accounts, take out major loans, and in general cause you a lot of grief.



"Sacred cows make the best hamburger"

- Mark Twain
Re: the New Chip
joemikeb #57800 02/07/21 06:17 PM
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Thanks Joe, getting to meat/ potatoes here of stuff very non-intuitive for me and I don't pay attention to.

OK so my laptop which which will never go beyond Catalina... and I use as secondary monitor in living room (and occasional travel trips), for web/ internet, you tube .... (Primary is Imac desktop).

You say too dangerous to continue using for a year or two more?

(which is sad, as it completely working wonderfully and great in every other respect).

You say for security ALone, that's it it has to go?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57801 02/07/21 06:35 PM
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Joe makes good points, although (so far) I've not had anything real bad happen. Interesting, though, about Amazon and redirection. Wonder what other sites such nefarious activities occur?

Regarding security with whatever (Mac OS, applications, the internet, etc.), it's important to realize that in almost all cases, security patches/updates are basically a reaction to a security issue that has already happened, so it is best to install the update as soon as possible. And of course using a product like Malwarebytes or ClamXAV every so often is good too. But there is no such thing as 100% protection. That's why it is imperative to be proactive and diligent when it comes to security, no matter what.

Re: the New Chip
MartyByrde #57802 02/07/21 06:47 PM
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kevs Offline OP
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BWT Joe, will I be able to migrate from Catalina to Big Sur (Laptop) ?

Re: the New Chip
kevs #57803 02/07/21 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kevs
BWT Joe, will I be able to migrate from Catalina to Big Sur (Laptop) ?

No, you can not. Look at joemikeb's post #57768 above. Also, there is this:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211238

Your MacBook Air 2012 is not on that list.

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