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Internet Problems - This is getting Old
#56402 10/06/20 08:48 PM
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OK, so I can get on the internet with my iphone even with cell data turned off. I can get on the internet with my older 2012 Mac, but not with my newer one except off and on. I keep having to shut down and reboot, change my DNS numbers to the original for the ISP as recommended by Network Diagnostics, but that didn't work. Then in another note N/Diag suggested using an open DNS. Whatever. Nothing is working to get me connected to the ISP.

Since I can get on the internet with my older Mac which has Catalina (though sometimes it's sketchy), and my iPhone internet works, but now not my Newer Mac, is there some other setting that may have gotten screwed up? I turned off all my extensions to make sure that wasn't it, but nothing changed. I am just glad my Older Mac is working at the moment. If it's my ISP, why does one mac work and not the other one, and why does my iPhone connect to the internet. They all have the same router and ISP.

I looked online and I am definitely not the only one with these problems since upgrading to Catalina. I'm not sorry I did because like I said earlier, my bank's website didn't work anymore with Sierra. Here is an article explaining what I can do but " changing the location" part scares me. What do you think? Catalina not connecting to wi-fi fix

I'm so frustrated.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56406 10/06/20 10:12 PM
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I do NOT recommend your using a beta version of the OS. You are too likely to exchange one problem for another and with beta versions of the OS you are on your own without Apple Support. It is written in the agreement you have to "sign" before you get it. The "Fix" that is described has been recommended elsewhere, it is not too difficult and is probably worth trying in this circumstance, BUT I would skip to the bottom of the article and carry out the "Further Steps" first. Then go to the "Fix" if that does not work.

Since you brought it up, if she will let me touch it, I think I will try that on my wife's computer as she cannot get to the internet on the 5GHz band and she can on the 2.4GHz band both created by the same router???

FOLLOW UP: In the process of getting ready to work on my wife's connectivity issue, I rebooted the Time Capsule that creates the network -- problem solved without touching her computer! 😜

Last edited by joemikeb; 10/06/20 10:33 PM. Reason: Follow Up

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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56408 10/06/20 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I do NOT recommend your using a beta version of the OS. You are too likely to exchange one problem for another and with beta versions of the OS you are on your own without Apple Support. It is written in the agreement you have to "sign" before you get it.

Don't worry, I wasn't planning on using a Beta version. I know they have more bugs than the standard versions.



The "Fix" that is described has been recommended elsewhere, it is not too difficult and is probably worth trying in this circumstance, BUT I would skip to the bottom of the article and carry out the "Further Steps" first. Then go to the "Fix" if that does not work.


I still have the ISP DNS set up without the open DNS's on the newer Mac. It's working now but for how long, I don't know. Both macs were giving me a problem a little while ago, and I changed the network from the usual one to the one labeled for the TV. That didn't work, but when I changed it back to the normal setting everything started working. The older Mac is using open DNS's. I'm just afraid it won't last. I will try the "further steps" if this doesn't stay working.

I forgot to say that the Smart TV is having no problems connecting to the internet whatsoever. Same router, same modem, same ISP.

b]FOLLOW UP:[/b] In the process of getting ready to work on my wife's connectivity issue, I rebooted the Time Capsule that creates the network -- problem solved without touching her computer! 😜

I don't use Time Capsule, so that's not an option for me. Crossing fingers.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56411 10/07/20 12:45 AM
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If only for the heck of it, have you ever put your two MBPs side by side and compared every item in their Network pref panes?

It doesn't seem likely, but maybe there's something to be learned.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56413 10/07/20 01:12 AM
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No, but that's a good idea. I think I will do that in the not too distant future.

Originally Posted by artie505
If only for the heck of it, have you ever put your two MBPs side by side and compared every item in their Network pref panes?

It doesn't seem likely, but maybe there's something to be learned.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56425 10/09/20 12:52 AM
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I looked at my Macs side-by-side as you suggested, and there were no major differences. I sure wish I knew why my old one is so slow though I've mentioned it before here and tried all suggestions. At least it works. It has 500 gigs and only a teensy weensy amount used. I don't get it. I don't supposed you would want to take a look at it for something fun to do?




Originally Posted by artie505
If only for the heck of it, have you ever put your two MBPs side by side and compared every item in their Network pref panes?

It doesn't seem likely, but maybe there's something to be learned.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56426 10/09/20 01:31 AM
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I'm confused. I thought it was your new MBP that's the slow one, or is the new one limited to only Internet problems?

As I recall, your old MBP is up to specs for Catalina, so the only thing I can think of at this point is to rerun the Catalina installer and subsequent updates if any...maybe on both MBPs?

And maybe even d/l the Catalina installer again before you do that.


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In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56429 10/09/20 04:15 PM
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None of this has any bearing on your network connectivity issue, but since you brougth it up....

Originally Posted by plantsower
I looked at my Macs side-by-side as you suggested, and there were no major differences.

I sure wish I knew why my old one is so slow though I've mentioned it before here and tried all suggestions. At least it works. It has 500 gigs and only a teensy weensy amount used. I don't get it.
I have colored the operative words red. Differences that seem minor can sometimes be highly significant. Where speed is concerned, the AGE of a machine is by definition a major factor. In all likelihood your old Mac is only slow when compared to your new Mac. Your new Mac almost certainly has a processor running at a high clock rate, probably has more "cores", and maybe has a different internal architecture (i5 vs. i7) that is inherently more efficient. Add to that, software developers and website designers build for the latest and greatest and throw ever increasing processing loads at your computer which serves to magnify the processors performance differences.

To put this in perspectice, I have a late 2012 Mac mini that was the top of the line when new (I remember thinking how fast it was at the time) and a 2018 Mac mini that was top of the line when I bought it. The single-core GeekBench score of the 2012 machine is 3/4 that of the 2018 machine and the multi-core score is only 1/2. So theoretically the newer machine is anywhere from 1 1/2 to 2 times as fast than its elder sibling. That makes the 2012 Mac mini "feel" almost glacial when I use it.

SIDEBAR: Processor clock rate (speed) is not the only indicator of overall processor performance. I could have opted for a 3.6 GHz i3 processor but instead went with the 3.2GHz i7 because the i7 processes data 20% faster in spite of its 20% slower clock rate.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56431 10/09/20 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I'm confused. I thought it was your new MBP that's the slow one, or is the new one limited to only Internet problems?

Yes, just internet problems that seems to have gone away when I put the ISP DNS number back on top. Go figure.

As I recall, your old MBP is up to specs for Catalina, so the only thing I can think of at this point is to rerun the Catalina installer and subsequent updates if any...maybe on both MBPs?

And maybe even d/l the Catalina installer again before you do that.

My old MBP was slow before Catalina. Catalina didn't slow it down. In fact I believe that is why I bought the newer one because the other slowed down so much, even though I tried all sorts of things to speed it up. It's a shame.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56432 10/09/20 08:10 PM
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I was only comparing the Network settings as suggested by Artie.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
None of this has any bearing on your network connectivity issue, but since you brougth it up....

[quote=plantsower]I looked at my Macs side-by-side as you suggested, and there were no major differences.

I have colored the operative words red. Differences that seem minor can sometimes be highly significant. Where speed is concerned, the AGE of a machine is by definition a major factor. In all likelihood your old Mac is only slow when compared to your new Mac. Maybe, but I got the new one because the older one was so very slow without a comparison to a new one. Your new Mac almost certainly has a processor running at a high clock rate, probably has more "cores", and maybe has a different internal architecture (i5 vs. i7) that is inherently more efficient. Add to that, software developers and website designers build for the latest and greatest and throw ever increasing processing loads at your computer which serves to magnify the processors performance differences.

To put this in perspectice, I have a late 2012 Mac mini that was the top of the line when new (I remember thinking how fast it was at the time) and a 2018 Mac mini that was top of the line when I bought it. The single-core GeekBench score of the 2012 machine is 3/4 that of the 2018 machine and the multi-core score is only 1/2. So theoretically the newer machine is anywhere from 1 1/2 to 2 times as fast than its elder sibling. That makes the 2012 Mac mini "feel" almost glacial when I use it.

SIDEBAR: Processor clock rate (speed) is not the only indicator of overall processor performance. I could have opted for a 3.6 GHz i3 processor but instead went with the 3.2GHz i7 because the i7 processes data 20% faster in spite of its 20% slower clock rate.

Stats:
MBP mid-2012
Dual Core i5
GHz 2.5
Storage 500gb/452 available
Memory 4 gb
Intel HD graphics 4000/1536 mb

MBP mid-2015
Dual Core i5
GHz 2.7
Storage 125 SSD/81.62 available
Memory 8 gb
Intel Iris graphics 6100/1536 mb

BTW: I tried to list the stats side by side but that didn't work. Is there way to use tabs here to indent?

And again, the 2012 MBP was notably slower than it ever was before I bought the 2015. It's not just a slow loading internet, it takes forever to load anything up.


I don't know how to do a clock speed test. And, is there no hope of increasing my speed in the 2012 without buying a new processor?


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56433 10/10/20 12:41 AM
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There is one obvious reason your older machine could be slower and that is it only has 4GB of memory. Open Activity Monitor on that machine, click on the Memory tab and look at the bottom of the screen. The key information is Memory Pressure (a graph) and Swap Used. If memory pressure is high and especially if it is any color but green you are pow or out of memory and are using your hard drive as a substitute for more memory. That could really slow the machine down.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56434 10/10/20 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
BTW: I tried to list the stats side by side but that didn't work. Is there way to use tabs here to indent?
The only way of which I"m aware to do the side by side thing is by using ⌥-space, one space at a time, but it's so much trouble it isn't worth the effort.

More: If you really want to do a side by side, do it in TextEdit, and post an image.

Last edited by artie505; 10/10/20 02:06 AM. Reason: More

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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56443 10/10/20 06:23 PM
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More:If you really want to do a side by side, do it in TextEdit, and post an image. [/quote] Oh good idea! Hopefully, it won't be rearranged for me. Can you tell me how to do columns in text edit so I can make them side-by-side?


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56444 10/10/20 06:31 PM
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So, if I delete things from activity monitor, (I assume I can do that), it's not permanent, it's just closing things that taking up space, right? I'm skittish about that kind of stuff. Memory 4 GB/321 GB used. The color in the graph is light yellow orange. I don't know what is safe to remove and what isn't, as I don't understand half the things mentioned. Sure would be nice to get that fixed!


Originally Posted by joemikeb
There is one obvious reason your older machine could be slower and that is it only has 4GB of memory. Open Activity Monitor on that machine, click on the Memory tab and look at the bottom of the screen. The key information is Memory Pressure (a graph) and Swap Used. If memory pressure is high and especially if it is any color but green you are pow or out of memory and are using your hard drive as a substitute for more memory. That could really slow the machine down.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56445 10/10/20 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
So, if I delete things from activity monitor, (I assume I can do that), it's not permanent, it's just closing things that taking up space, right? I'm skittish about that kind of stuff. Memory 4 GB/321 GB used. The color in the graph is light yellow orange. I don't know what is safe to remove and what isn't, as I don't understand half the things mentioned. Sure would be nice to get that fixed!

You can quit or force quit items in Activity monitor, but you cannot delete them.

Quote
The color in the graph is light yellow orange.

BINGO! That is exactly what I thought you would find. Your old computer would have a noticeable, possibly substantial, improvement in performance with an injection of MORE MEMORY!. I suggest adding 8GB, which would bring you up to 12GB. Memory is relatively cheap (($42.99 for 8GB and $82.99 for 16GB) and easy to install (10 minutes), but they will not do that for you at the Apple Store. You will have to take it to a third party repair facility to get that done or, if you are feeling adventurous take a look at the installation videos at OWC. You would need a couple of small tools, which OWC is more than willing to sell you. 🤔 A third alternative is sending you old MBP to OWC and they will installl the memory for you.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56446 10/10/20 07:59 PM
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So there is hope! Seeing that I only use a small portion of my storage, I assumed I only used a small portion of my memory. WRONG! I will try to force quit stuff and see if that helps. Otherwise, thanks so much for the great suggestion for the extra memory. I am not close to any Apple Stores (an hour away and many hours in line), so I will try to figure out something else if it comes to that. Is it possible to force quit something important like the stuff I can't identify on the A/M which may cause me a problem? I will also watch the video.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by plantsower
So, if I delete things from activity monitor, (I assume I can do that), it's not permanent, it's just closing things that taking up space, right? I'm skittish about that kind of stuff. Memory 4 GB/321 GB used. The color in the graph is light yellow orange. I don't know what is safe to remove and what isn't, as I don't understand half the things mentioned. Sure would be nice to get that fixed!

You can quit or force quit items in Activity monitor, but you cannot delete them.

Quote
The color in the graph is light yellow orange.

BINGO! That is exactly what I thought you would find. Your old computer would have a noticeable, possibly substantial, improvement in performance with an injection of MORE MEMORY!. I suggest adding 8GB, which would bring you up to 12GB. Memory is relatively cheap (($42.99 for 8GB and $82.99 for 16GB) and easy to install (10 minutes), but they will not do that for you at the Apple Store. You will have to take it to a third party repair facility to get that done or, if you are feeling adventurous take a look at the installation videos at OWC. You would need a couple of small tools, which OWC is more than willing to sell you. 🤔 A third alternative is sending you old MBP to OWC and they will installl the memory for you.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56447 10/10/20 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
So there is hope! Seeing that I only use a small portion of my storage, I assumed I only used a small portion of my memory. WRONG! I will try to force quit stuff and see if that helps. Otherwise, thanks so much for the great suggestion for the extra memory. I am not close to any Apple Stores (an hour away and many hours in line), so I will try to figure out something else if it comes to that. Is it possible to force quit something important like the stuff I can't identify on the A/M which may cause me a problem? I will also watch the video.

In all probability, any attempt to free up memory by quitting apps in Activity Monitor will result in a crash. It would be better to stringently limit yourself to never having more than one application open at a time, and even that may not be enough. Apple no longer builds a Mac with only 4GB of memory with good reason. IPhones and iPad can get by with only 4GB because they do not have a lot of the background tasks and functions of Mac OS such as Finder, Spotlight, and true multitasking. That is part of the price we pay for all the cool features we like about our Macs. The only genuine solution is investing in more memory!

As I pointed out the Apple Store WILL NOT UPGRADE YOUR MEMORY. That is a do-it-yourself or third party job.

If you can navigate a sewing machine, with all the needle changing, threading, dust removal that goes along with it, and even if you can't or don't, you should have no problem installing the additional memory yourself. There are ten Phillips (cross) head screws and one internal connector to remove and then replace after the new memory is installed. The only trick is the screws are size 0 or 00 (the common Phillips screwdriver is a number 2), which are really small, so you have to have a micro size driver and a plastic "spudger" would also be very helpful. As I said previously, OWC will gladly sell you both for a buck or two when you order the memory from them.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56448 10/11/20 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by plantsower
More:If you really want to do a side by side, do it in TextEdit, and post an image. Oh good idea! Hopefully, it won't be rearranged for me. Can you tell me how to do columns in text edit so I can make them side-by-side?
On second thought, forget about TextEdit; it's easier than the FTM reply pane, but still a BIG nuisance.

You d/l'ed Numbers a coupl'a weeks back, so open up a new spreadsheet, adjust your column widths, set text columns to left justification and numbers columns to right justification, and take a ⌘-shift-4 screenshot of the pertinent portion.

Request: PLEASE don't use colors like fluorescent green; I'm going blind trying to read them. smile


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56449 10/11/20 12:45 AM
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It's awfully disingenuous of Apple to specify 4 GB RAM as adequate for Catalina without mentioning that with only 4 GB your performance is going to be degraded...possibly substantially.

Apple is so foaming at the mouth greedy that they'll con you into installing the OS to demonstrate to you that you "need" a new machine.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56450 10/11/20 01:31 AM
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Request: PLEASE don't use colors like fluorescent green; I'm going blind trying to read them. smile [/quote]

SO SORRY!! LOL! Maybe purple next time.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56451 10/11/20 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by artie505
It's awfully disingenuous of Apple to specify 4 GB RAM as adequate for Catalina without mentioning that with only 4 GB your performance is going to be degraded...possibly substantially. Yeah, the old gray mare aint what she used to be. I miss the old Apple.

Apple is so foaming at the mouth greedy that they'll con you into installing the OS to demonstrate to you that you "need" a new machine.
For sure!


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56452 10/11/20 01:39 AM
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In all probability, any attempt to free up memory by quitting apps in Activity Monitor will result in a crash. It would be better to stringently limit yourself to never having more than one application open at a time, and even that may not be enough. Apple no longer builds a Mac with only 4GB of memory with good reason. IPhones and iPad can get by with only 4GB because they do not have a lot of the background tasks and functions of Mac OS such as Finder, Spotlight, and true multitasking. That is part of the price we pay for all the cool features we like about our Macs. The only genuine solution is investing in more memory!

I may have to do that, but since I only pay bills on that Mac and use it when the other one is giving me a problem, I am hoping just quitting most apps will do the trick

As I pointed out the Apple Store WILL NOT UPGRADE YOUR MEMORY. That is a do-it-yourself or third party job.

If you can navigate a sewing machine, with all the needle changing, threading, dust removal that goes along with it, and even if you can't or don't, you should have no problem installing the additional memory yourself. There are ten Phillips (cross) head screws and one internal connector to remove and then replace after the new memory is installed. The only trick is the screws are size 0 or 00 (the common Phillips screwdriver is a number 2), which are really small, so you have to have a micro size driver and a plastic "spudger" would also be very helpful. As I said previously, OWC will gladly sell you both for a buck or two when you order the memory from them. [/quote] I still haven't watched the video but I will. I will then be able to tell if it's too complicated for me to do or not.


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
joemikeb #56453 10/11/20 01:45 AM
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Wow, I watched the how-to video and it WAS simpler than using and cleaning my sewing machine. If I decide to add memory, I will be sure to get those little tools, or there could be a lot of frustration with a simple project. Thanks.

If you can navigate a sewing machine, with all the needle changing, threading, dust removal that goes along with it, and even if you can't or don't, you should have no problem installing the additional memory yourself. There are ten Phillips (cross) head screws and one internal connector to remove and then replace after the new memory is installed. The only trick is the screws are size 0 or 00 (the common Phillips screwdriver is a number 2), which are really small, so you have to have a micro size driver and a plastic "spudger" would also be very helpful. As I said previously, OWC will gladly sell you both for a buck or two when you order the memory from them. [/quote]


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
plantsower #56454 10/11/20 02:14 AM
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If you install the RAM, do yourself a favor and don't close up the machine before turning it over and making sure that it starts up so you know that the DIMMs are seated properly and you won't have to deal with the screws a second time if they're not. (That's from sad experience. frown )


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Re: Internet Problems - This is getting Old
artie505 #56455 10/11/20 04:06 AM
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Thank you, Sir! That's good advice.


Originally Posted by artie505
If you install the RAM, do yourself a favor and don't close up the machine before turning it over and making sure that it starts up so you know that the DIMMs are seated properly and won't have to deal with the screws a second time if they're not. (That's from sad experience. frown )


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