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I'm back about partitioning
#54058 04/15/20 05:34 PM
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Guys: I read all your input and still cannot make up my mind.

I have Sierra on my extended hard drive now. Can I erase it off the Mac and create more space on my SSD?

Otherwise, I am still confused as to whether it's safe to download both Mojave and Catalina. I have partitioned my hard drive and named the partitions Mojave and Catalina. Mojave has 30 gig and Catalina has 44 gigs. I have not downloaded anything because I am waiting to see what I want to do. I talked to AppleCare and he said the divisions I made are okay. He just wanted to get off the phone, so I came here again.

If I screw things up, can I erase what I've done or is it permanent? I need to do the safest, easiest thing possible if that's the case.

As you probably know, some of what you all said was too technical. Artie was right. Besides, you can see I overthink everything.

Anyway, JoeMike said, "DO NOT let the installer reformat the internal drive to APFS." I don't know what APFS is nor how to not let the installer reformat the internal drive. This is becoming so complicated.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54061 04/15/20 06:50 PM
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First I would boot from the external drive to be certain that it is bootable before erasing the SSD on your Mac. But if you are confident your clone is working then you can safely erase your SSD, but that may not be necessary. Disk Utility in Sierra can non-destructively partition a drive in the free space on that drive. (but I would never attempt that without a known good bootable clone in case Murphy's Law kicks in.)

If you are going to install Catalina anywhere: Power down your computer and wait 10 seconds then start your computer while holding down Option+Command+R (⌥⌘R) until you see the Apple logo appear on your screen. This will boot your computer from an internet Recovery Drive and from there you can install Catalina on your SSD or any drive partition/volume that can be formatted APFS. If you are installing it on your SSD the installer will non-destructively reformat your SSD to APFS.

APFS is Apple's new file system that replaces HFS+ (MacOS extended) which has some really wonderful and amazing features such as multiple volumes on the same drive or partition and each volume can expand to occupy the entire physical capacity of the partition or drive. In many ways it is a mind bender. But the fact is Mojave can run on APFS or HFS+ while Catalina will only run on APFS but it can access files on an HFS+ volume. NOTE: APFS is highly optimized for use on an SSD but it will also work on an HD.

Volume is probably a new and confusing term for you but technically every drive or partition on a drive has/is a volume and the files are contained in that volume. With APFS a drive or partition can have one or more volumes and a volume may contain sub volumes. Confusing? You bet! it took me a while to wrap my brain around all of this but it offers amazing flexibility and features. It helped me to think of a volume as a .dmg on steroids which turns out to be a workable analogy.

Last edited by joemikeb; 04/15/20 07:02 PM. Reason: boo boo

If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54063 04/15/20 09:04 PM
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Color me stupid, but I plugged in my external drive. I went into Sierra which seems to work fine. I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc. Is that normal? I haven't been into Mavericks on my external drive for years. It was as if I was in Sierra all along.

Also, how do I get out of the external drive? Delete each orange drive icon and then unplug the drive or what? It's been awhile since I've used the external drive and I've forgotten the rules.

Thanks.

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
First I would boot from the external drive to be certain that it is bootable before erasing the SSD on your Mac. But if you are confident your clone is working then you can safely erase your SSD, but that may not be necessary. Disk Utility in Sierra can non-destructively partition a drive in the free space on that drive. (but I would never attempt that without a known good bootable clone in case Murphy's Law kicks in.)

If you are going to install Catalina anywhere: Power down your computer and wait 10 seconds then start your computer while holding down Option+Command+R (⌥⌘R) until you see the Apple logo appear on your screen. This will boot your computer from an internet Recovery Drive and from there you can install Catalina on your SSD or any drive partition/volume that can be formatted APFS. If you are installing it on your SSD the installer will non-destructively reformat your SSD to APFS.

APFS is Apple's new file system that replaces HFS+ (MacOS extended) which has some really wonderful and amazing features such as multiple volumes on the same drive or partition and each volume can expand to occupy the entire physical capacity of the partition or drive. In many ways it is a mind bender. But the fact is Mojave can run on APFS or HFS+ while Catalina will only run on APFS but it can access files on an HFS+ volume. NOTE: APFS is highly optimized for use on an SSD but it will also work on an HD.

Volume is probably a new and confusing term for you but technically every drive or partition on a drive has/is a volume and the files are contained in that volume. With APFS a drive or partition can have one or more volumes and a volume may contain sub volumes. Confusing? You bet! it took me a while to wrap my brain around all of this but it offers amazing flexibility and features. It helped me to think of a volume as a .dmg on steroids which turns out to be a workable analogy.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54064 04/15/20 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Color me stupid, but I plugged in my external drive. I went into Sierra which seems to work fine. I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc. Is that normal? I haven't been into Mavericks on my external drive for years. It was as if I was in Sierra all along.

I am coloring you smart. Since you didn't know you were smart to ask. When you say "went into Sierra" does that mean you...
  1. Booted hour computer while Pressing the Option Key until you saw the Apple logo then selected the Sierra that is on your external drive from the options listed or...
  2. while booted from your SSD went to System Preferences > Startup disk and selected your external drive from the options listed there.

If it was A then all you have to do is reboot your computer and it will automatically revert to the version on your SSD. If B then you have to reverse the procedure go into System Preferences > Startup Disk and select the SSD as your boot drive then reboot.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
Also, how do I get out of the external drive? Delete each orange drive icon and then unplug the drive or what? It's been awhile since I've used the external drive and I've forgotten the rules.

The rule is never unplug or disconnect a mounted drive without dismounting it UNLESS you are shutting down or rebooting your computer. Part of the what happens in the shutdown process is disconnecting all connected drives and the first thing that happens during a reboot is shutting down the computer.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54067 04/16/20 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Color me stupid, but I plugged in my external drive. I went into Sierra which seems to work fine. I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc. Is that normal? I haven't been into Mavericks on my external drive for years. It was as if I was in Sierra all along.

I dunno, Rita. joemike may have been alluding to this, but are you 100% CERTAIN that you were actually in Mavericks?

What you described doesn't sound possible. (Unless, that is, you've got Mavericks pointed to your Sierra home folder.)


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54071 04/16/20 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: artie505
I dunno, Rita. joemike may have been alluding to this, but are you 100% CERTAIN that you were actually in Mavericks?

What you described doesn't sound possible. (Unless, that is, you've got Mavericks pointed to your Sierra home folder.)
Maybe I was too subtle but that is EXACTLY what I was alluding to. I concur with your analysis that what Rita reports does not seem possible.

This whole thing and all of the complexities would be totally avoided if Rita would give up Sierra.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54072 04/16/20 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: joemikeb
This whole thing and all of the complexities would be totally avoided if Rita would give up Sierra.

Never before has a legacy OS been so far removed from and so at odds with its younger siblings.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54076 04/16/20 03:36 PM
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Hi: All I know is that I connected my extended hard drive to my Mac and clicked onto the orange hard drive icon labeled Mavericks. The weird thing is Mavericks has bookmarks from before that were not on Sierra, but Mavericks also has my current bookmarks. As far as it pointing to Sierra, I don't even know what that means. If it points to Sierra, I must have accidentally done that.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Color me stupid, but I plugged in my external drive. I went into Sierra which seems to work fine. I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc. Is that normal? I haven't been into Mavericks on my external drive for years. It was as if I was in Sierra all along.

I dunno, Rita. joemike may have been alluding to this, but are you 100% CERTAIN that you were actually in Mavericks?

What you described doesn't sound possible. (Unless, that is, you've got Mavericks pointed to your Sierra home folder.)


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54078 04/16/20 03:39 PM
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Hi Joe: I wouldn't mind giving up Sierra if I knew for a fact that it is the culprit of my bad experience on Amazon. I checked my husband's iMac and he has High Sierra 10.13.6. If someone has access to that and can duplicate the problems I am having with Amazon reviews, I will know for sure that I need to upgrade. His is the newest OS in the house! LOL! I would also like to know of Mojave is acting up in regards to Amazon. Anyone have screen sharing abilities?

************

This whole thing and all of the complexities would be totally avoided if Rita would give up Sierra. [/quote]


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54081 04/16/20 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Hi: All I know is that I connected my extended hard drive to my Mac and clicked onto the orange hard drive icon labeled Mavericks. The weird thing is Mavericks has bookmarks from before that were not on Sierra, but Mavericks also has my current bookmarks.

I think you ought to forget about troubleshooting the issue and find an exorcist. shocked crazy grin


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54082 04/16/20 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
If someone has access to that and can duplicate the problems I am having with Amazon reviews, I will know for sure that I need to upgrade.

I've got backup 10.13.6 and 10.14.6 volumes. If you tell me what your issue with Amazon is I'll take a look.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54091 04/16/20 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Hi Joe: I wouldn't mind giving up Sierra if I knew for a fact that it is the culprit of my bad experience on Amazon.

It could be the problem is not with Sierra, but the version of Safari in Sierra. You might try downloading, installing, and running either Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox and see if they fix the problem.

Even if that fixes your problem, my strong recommendation to upgrade to Catalina still stands. Catalina is many times more secure from outside manipulation than Sierra and given the sophisticated exploits out on the internet, we all need all the protection we can get. Besides that you might discover a lot of cool new features and there are a lot of new apps are not compatible with Sierra. And in general Catalina has been a problem free version of MacOS from day one.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

— Albert Einstein
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54093 04/16/20 06:08 PM
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Hi Artie:

Thanks for your help. I tried it on the latest Firefox too and it does even weirder things there. In Safari, I look up a general product like dish cloths. I see one I am interested in and when I hover over the review stars, it shows up as a little white square. It's never done this before. So, then I click on the actual product and then click on one of the review options, lets say 5 star. When I click on it, instead of bringing up the 5 star reviews like normal, something goes right to the download window. When I click on the download window, I get this message that Safari can't open the file because no available application can open it. (I took a screen shot but can't remember how to upload it.)

But if none of that happens to you, there is something else going on, but still, it's all three computers,, my old mac which runs on Sierra, this Mac that runs on Sierra and my husband's iMac that runs on High Sierra.

When I try it on the very latest Firefox, and I hover over the stars of a product I like, I again get the little white box. So, I click on the product and get the product page for that dish cloth. I click on the review stars I want and I get a text box saying: You have chosen to open.....It's too long to quote but you get the idea. If I click "ok" a picture of the outline of a dog comes up!!! In Firefox I find it's easier to get to reviews and read them than in Safari, though.

Whew! Hope that helps. And I hope it happens to you. Then I know for sure that it's Sierra. If that happens to you in Mojave, too, I will jump right to Catalina.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
If someone has access to that and can duplicate the problems I am having with Amazon reviews, I will know for sure that I need to upgrade.

I've got backup 10.13.6 and 10.14.6 volumes. If you tell me what your issue with Amazon is I'll take a look.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54094 04/16/20 06:10 PM
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LOLOLOL!


I think you ought to forget about troubleshooting the issue and find an exorcist. shocked crazy grin [/quote]


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
joemikeb #54095 04/16/20 06:15 PM
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Hi Joe:

It does it with the latest Firefox, too!! Artie is checking this out for me on Sierra. I am anxious to hear the results. If it doesn't happen to him, I don't know what to think. I don't want to download Chrome.

I may actually install Catalina, but I dread the learning curve. It always takes me about a week to finally feel comfortable with a new OS that is drastically different than the old one. The experience is not fun for me.



Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Hi Joe: I wouldn't mind giving up Sierra if I knew for a fact that it is the culprit of my bad experience on Amazon.

It could be the problem is not with Sierra, but the version of Safari in Sierra. You might try downloading, installing, and running either Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox and see if they fix the problem.

Even if that fixes your problem, my strong recommendation to upgrade to Catalina still stands. Catalina is many times more secure from outside manipulation than Sierra and given the sophisticated exploits out on the internet, we all need all the protection we can get. Besides that you might discover a lot of cool new features and there are a lot of new apps are not compatible with Sierra. And in general Catalina has been a problem free version of MacOS from day one.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54097 04/16/20 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc.

I'm wondering just what the "etc." means here. If you are using (i.e. signed into) iCloud on both partitions, then by default your bookmarks would have been updated on the Mavericks partition as soon as you launched Safari.

As an experiment, you could see if the Mavericks bookmarks that weren't previously on your Sierra partition now show up there.



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Re: I'm back about partitioning
dkmarsh #54104 04/17/20 03:14 AM
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I don't use iCloud, so if it's there it's not by choice. I have heard people say that stuff goes into iCloud without their consent. I'm not sure if that's true or not because I'm not going to check. When I get a chance, I may check my Sierra partition as you mentioned. That's a good idea. Thanks.


Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Originally Posted By: plantsower
I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc.

I'm wondering just what the "etc." means here. If you are using (i.e. signed into) iCloud on both partitions, then by default your bookmarks would have been updated on the Mavericks partition as soon as you launched Safari.

As an experiment, you could see if the Mavericks bookmarks that weren't previously on your Sierra partition now show up there.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54106 04/17/20 08:29 AM
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Hi, Rita,

I wasn't able to check in Sierra, because I've got only High Sierra and Mojave backup volumes. (I've got a Sierra installer, though, and if push comes to shove I'll run it.)

But since you said your issue happens in your husband's HS as well as your Sierra I booted into HS to see what would happen, and I had no problems on Amazon. (This was in Safari 12.0 to begin with and 13.0 after I finished updating.)

BUT, I noticed something in HS (Catalina too, so it's not version specific) that never caught my eye before, namely, that when I hover over the review stars on a product list page a little empty white box flashes on my screen for a fraction of a second before the stars box comes up.

That, combined with your review issue on specific product pages, smells VERY MUCH to me like a content blocker issue, so I'll suggest that you try turning yours off and back on one at a time to see if you can nail a culprit. I hope you're running content blockers anyhow, because if you aren't, I'm out of ideas. (I'll note that I've run into review/content blocker conflicts, but not on Amazon.)

PS: To post a screenshot or other type of image...
  1. Go to https://imgur.com/upload.
  2. Either drag your image into the window or browse for it.
  3. Click on "Copy" in the next window to copy your image's URL to your clipboard.
  4. Create a link using FTM's "Create a link..." tags...2nd icon from the left.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54124 04/17/20 04:12 PM
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Hi Artie:

Thank you for going through all that trouble. As you can see I was able to put in the screen shots using your instructions. I wonder what that little white box is all about? Before you suggested it, I did disable my content blockers, but it made no difference, and my husband doesn't have any on his I'm pretty sure, unless I put them on and don't remember. He wouldn't know how to do it anyway. smile I am guessing it isn't browser specific since I used Safari and Firefox and still had problems.

So, if it's not the content blockers, and it doesn't happen on your Mac, maybe it's something else causing this. If so, I will call Apple again and ask to speak to a level 2 Tech (if they are working at this time). Awaiting your reply.... Rita

Screen Shot TextEditWindow Dog Picture



Originally Posted By: artie505
Hi, Rita,

I wasn't able to check in Sierra, because I've got only High Sierra and Mojave backup volumes. (I've got a Sierra installer, though, and if push comes to shove I'll run it.)

But since you said your issue happens in your husband's HS as well as your Sierra I booted into HS to see what would happen, and I had no problems on Amazon. (This was in Safari 12.0 to begin with and 13.0 after I finished updating.)

BUT, I noticed something in HS (Catalina too, so it's not version specific) that never caught my eye before, namely, that when I hover over the review stars on a product list page a little empty white box flashes on my screen for a fraction of a second before the stars box comes up.

That, combined with your review issue on specific product pages, smells VERY MUCH to me like a content blocker issue, so I'll suggest that you try turning yours off and back on one at a time to see if you can nail a culprit. I hope you're running content blockers anyhow, because if you aren't, I'm out of ideas. (I'll note that I've run into review/content blocker conflicts, but not on Amazon.)

PS: To post a screenshot or other type of image...
  1. Go to https://imgur.com/upload.
  2. Either drag your image into the window or browse for it.
  3. Click on "Copy" in the next window to copy your image's URL to your clipboard.
  4. Create a link using FTM's "Create a link..." tags...2nd icon from the left.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
dkmarsh #54128 04/17/20 05:41 PM
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Hi:

I went into my external HD and checked Mavericks. I couldn't bring up Safari because I got this message: "You can't use this version of the app safari.app with this version of Mac OS. You have safari.app 9.1.1." So, it looks like I can't even use Mavericks from my external H.D. May as well delete it.

Anyway, I also looked at Sierra on the Ex. HD and yes, it has the same bookmarks as Mavericks, though my internal HD Sierra does not.


***********

Originally Posted By: dkmarsh

Originally Posted By: plantsower
I then went into Mavericks and it was up to date with all the same bookmarks, etc.

I'm wondering just what the "etc." means here. If you are using (i.e. signed into) iCloud on both partitions, then by default your bookmarks would have been updated on the Mavericks partition as soon as you launched Safari.

As an experiment, you could see if the Mavericks bookmarks that weren't previously on your Sierra partition now show up there.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54132 04/17/20 07:03 PM
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Artie: I just noticed that when I'm in Firefox, when I try to renew the page, it goes to that text edit window and then to the "dog."! That doesn't happen on Safari. It's got to be something wacky in my computer. I had all the content blockers off, too. Waaaah!!


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
If someone has access to that and can duplicate the problems I am having with Amazon reviews, I will know for sure that I need to upgrade.

I've got backup 10.13.6 and 10.14.6 volumes. If you tell me what your issue with Amazon is I'll take a look.


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
artie505 #54138 04/18/20 12:40 AM
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Artie: Did you see my screen shots?

Rita


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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54139 04/18/20 04:35 AM
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I'm with you Rita, but I literally just got out of bed...slept the entire day. (Haven't eaten a thing yet either.)

If sleeping is a symptom, I"m terminal.

I'll get back to you by your AM.

More: Well, I'll try, anyhow. Good thing you're west coast.

Last edited by artie505; 04/18/20 05:38 AM. Reason: More

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Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54140 04/18/20 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: plantsower
Artie: I just noticed that when I'm in Firefox, when I try to renew the page, it goes to that text edit window and then to the "dog."! That doesn't happen on Safari. It's got to be something wacky in my computer. I had all the content blockers off, too. Waaaah!!

I've got absolutely no idea what's up, Rita. confused

I found What is a .dms file and how do I open it? which identifies 3 possibilities for your .dms file and means to open each:
  1. #1 - Disk Masher Image: I've had The Unarchiver on my MBP for ages, and it's safe...but Amiga?
  2. #2 - Dream Maker Script: I know nothing about either Dream Maker or the app mentioned.
  3. #3 - Renamed Downloaded File: That would involve simply changing the extension on your file from .dms to either .txt, .rtf, or .rtfd depending upon its contents. (I guess you'd have to experiment?)
Unfortunately, though, I can't begin to guess what you'll find inside that file if you do open it. I, myself, would create a sterile environment and take a look-see, but I think you'll be best off ignoring it.

Your dog looks like a 404 Error (Page Not Found), but it doesn't say so, and under any circumstances, it's too primitive to be an Amazon offering.

And you say that your husband experiences the same things you do, but on a different machine running a different version of macOS?

It doesn't seem likely that it's an ISP issue, but maybe something that came from your ISP inadvertently? Have you got a friend who uses the same ISP with whom you can check?

Unless someone else can come up with a better idea, I"d be inclined to experiment with a newly created, pristine installation, your choice of OS, and check to see if Amazon works before doing anything more. If Amazon does work, you can then run Migration Assistant, BUT that may import your problem to your new volume...altogether, one hell of a Catch-22.

Anybody?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
Re: I'm back about partitioning
plantsower #54141 04/18/20 02:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Online

Joined: Aug 2009
Likes: 15
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I went into my external HD and checked Mavericks. I couldn't bring up Safari because I got this message: "You can't use this version of the app safari.app with this version of Mac OS. You have safari.app 9.1.1." So, it looks like I can't even use Mavericks from my external H.D. May as well delete it.

Anyway, I also looked at Sierra on the Ex. HD and yes, it has the same bookmarks as Mavericks, though my internal HD Sierra does not.

Hi, again, Rita,

I think it's time to start thinking bigger than an exorcist...a reality show, maybe? tongue

I assume you could get into Safari in Mavericks at some point - How else could you have found out that the Sierra bookmarks are there? - but I'm at a loss as to why you no longer can.

Perhaps you've got auto-update turned on and you got an incomplete update? Under any circumstances, though, if you want to retain Mavericks, software update should offer you a Safari update that will get you back into it.

dkmarsh's iCloud guess for the bookmarks sounds like a good one, but I wasn't a cloud guy until Catalina, so I can't tell you where to look.

Sorry I can't do any better with either of your issues.


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

In Memory of Harv: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ~Voltaire
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