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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
ryck #56760 11/03/20 03:57 PM
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Given that in many districts there have been more mail-in votes cast than total votes in the 2016 election and early voting is in record numbers, how many votes are left to be cast today? As much as I hate to give Trump for anything, his presidency has brought out voters in record setting numbers all over the country and that is good! Now I just hope the vote goes the way I would like for it to go. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞I'm out of fingers to cross and that is making it very difficult to type.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56762 11/03/20 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Given that in many districts there have been more mail-in votes cast than total votes in the 2016 election and early voting is in record numbers, how many votes are left to be cast today? As much as I hate to give Trump for anything, his presidency has brought out voters in record setting numbers all over the country and that is good! Now I just hope the vote goes the way I would like for it to go. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞I'm out of fingers to cross and that is making it very difficult to type.
I think Arizona has become the fourth state to have more early voters than total voters in the last election.

In my part of Brooklyn, the line was an hour long before 6. It took me 45 minutes to get in and out, and I was impressed by the size of the staff. Some good forethought obviously went into the planning.

I wonder what people who get 2 hours to vote are going to do, although COVID has turned into something of a blessing in that respect, because so many people aren't in offices distant from their polling places...quite aside from the obvious impetus it's given Biden.

There's no way I can imagine that the early voting doesn't include a large Democratic presence, which bodes well.

You've got toes, haven't you? grin

Fingers crossed that the predicted early red wave at the polls will not live up to expectations in terms of percentage.

Last edited by artie505; 11/03/20 06:38 PM. Reason: More

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56763 11/03/20 07:50 PM
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Just walked past my polling place, which covers a relatively small area, and there's been no line since the early rush ended around 8.

So much for getting there at 6!

The workers are now twiddling their thumbs 'til 6.

I also walked past a school which covers a larger area, and there was no line there either.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56803 11/07/20 04:32 PM
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The election has now been called. Message to the Lyin' King, Donald J. Trump: You're fired!


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
ryck #56804 11/07/20 05:30 PM
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Aside from the fact that he's a LOSER, this is the first time in 28 years that an incumbent president has not been re-elected. Somehow, I don't feel sympathy for him...

Last edited by jchuzi; 11/07/20 06:09 PM.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
ryck #56805 11/07/20 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ryck
The election has now been called. Message to the Lyin' King, Donald J. Trump: You're fired!
He is acting like a five yer old, sticking his finger in his ear and yelling “I can’t hear you!’


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56806 11/07/20 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
Originally Posted by ryck
The election has now been called. Message to the Lyin' King, Donald J. Trump: You're fired!
He is acting like a five yer old, sticking his finger in his ear and yelling “I can’t hear you!’
Never admitting defeat was an honorable (I meant) admirable character trait until Trump made it disreputable.

I propose "Trump (n): a whining, sniveling loser" as the OED's word of the year for 2020.

Last edited by artie505; 11/08/20 10:25 AM. Reason: More

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56807 11/08/20 01:22 AM
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Artie, What a relief! The vast majority of Canadians have been waiting for this moment. I do have to wonder what El Supremo might cook up before Jan 20th to show his disdain. He is indeed a juvenile in a man's clothing.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
jaybass #56808 11/08/20 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jaybass
The vast majority of Canadians have been waiting for this moment.
Would that the vast majority of Americans had been waiting for it too. frown

It isn't anywhere near the humiliating repudiation of his Presidency I had hoped for, nor are the House and Senate outcomes particularly to my liking, but he IS GONE, and that's nothing to be made light of.

I doubt that there's any more "legislative" type damage he can do other than ram through a bunch more incompetent judges, which doesn't require House/Senate cooperation, and beyond that, I'll guess that he's limited to executive orders, which will no doubt be vituperative, but will be reversible immediately after the inauguration (which, I suspect, may really break the attendance record this time).

I don't think the nuclear codes enable him to hit NY and CA, so we're probably OK in that respect.

More: A potential side-slapping side effect of his loss may very well be the bankruptcy of his D.C. hotel, which, I"ve read, is the first of his ventures that he's ever let his kids in on.

Last edited by artie505; 11/08/20 02:20 AM. Reason: More

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
jaybass #56809 11/08/20 03:39 AM
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Finally found this.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56810 11/08/20 10:21 AM
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I don't know if COVID actually swung this election, but there's no denying that it played a major role in its outcome, so here's the question from hell: Who would prefer to see this election rerun in a COVID-free world?


The new Great Equalizer is the SEND button.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56811 11/08/20 12:05 PM
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Although the demise of Don Trumpleone (due to the voters making an offer he can't refuse) is very satisfying, I still find it appalling that so many Americans voted for him. We truly have a divided country and President Biden (it feels good to say that!) has his work cut out for him. As to fostering cooperation, the Democrats will have to do a lot of soul-searching as well. Animosities run deep on both sides.

I don't have a solution.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
jchuzi #56812 11/08/20 12:19 PM
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I think I once said it here, but I"ll say it again: It's no longer the United States of America; it's now the Blue States of America and the Red States of America conjoined at the government.

4,000,000 votes is a nice sounding plurality, but it still means that almost 50% of the voters voted for him.

And he's not going to shut up just because he's no longer the imaginary emperor, and that's frightening.

I think America's got a serious need for him to descend into complete insanity when reality sinks in, so they lock him away somewhere where he can't get his hands on a cell phone, which on the one hand, will save him from prosecution, but on the other, will save the country from him.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
jaybass #56813 11/08/20 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jaybass
Artie, What a relief! The vast majority of Canadians have been waiting for this moment.
The folks in my neighbourhood tend to walk it so, when you're out doing yard work, lots of people stop for a quick chat. I was amazed yesterday at the number of them smiling from ear-to-ear and saying things like "it's a great day for the U.S.", "It's a great day for the world."

Last edited by ryck; 11/08/20 04:07 PM.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56814 11/08/20 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I think I once said it here, but I"ll say it again: It's no longer the United States of America; it's now the Blue States of America and the Red States of America conjoined at the government.
That presents a huge challenge, and we know that Jo Biden is committed to closing the divide. However, right now we can only hope that Mitch McConnell and other Republicans have some sort of an epiphany that causes them to realize they represent Americans, not just Republican bases.

Originally Posted by artie505
And he's not going to shut up just because he's no longer the imaginary emperor, and that's frightening.
Maybe he can be distracted by an all-out federal government assault on his business books. The next big headline I’d like to see is: “Donald Trump headed to jail for tax fraud”.

Last edited by ryck; 11/08/20 04:18 PM.

ryck

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
ryck #56815 11/08/20 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by artie505
I think I once said it here, but I"ll say it again: It's no longer the United States of America; it's now the Blue States of America and the Red States of America conjoined at the government.
More like the Red suburbs and Blue cities. Even in deeply red Texas all of the major cities, including notoriously conservative Dallas and Fort Worth, voted Democratic. Those voters who cannot tolerate diversity have fled to the suburbs.

Originally Posted by ryck
That presents a huge challenge, and we know that Jo Biden is committed to closing the divide. However, right now we can only hope that Mitch McConnell and other Republicans have some sort of an epiphany that causes them to realize they represent Americans, not just Republican bases.
One hopeful note, Biden and McConnell worked together successfully when Biden was in the senate and later when he was vice-president. 🤞

Originally Posted by artie505
And he's not going to shut up just because he's no longer the imaginary emperor, and that's frightening.
It would appear Trump would rather see the republic crumble than accept a loss. But based on the reaction around the country it also appears a lot of Trump voters are just as glad to see him out of office as Democrats are. They are still conservatives and Republicans but not Trumpists. On a positive note: Reports are coming from White House insiders indicate the all the lawsuits are just an effort to help Trump accept the truth that he actually lost the election.

Originally Posted by ryck
Maybe he can be distracted by an all-out federal government assault on his business books. The next big headline I’d like to see is: “Donald Trump headed to jail for tax fraud”.
As tempting as Trump in jail sounds, I don't think the United States truly wants to see a former president in jail. Bankrupt, convicted of fraud, accounts frozen, federal and state liens on all his properties here and abroad — 👍. Jail — 👎. However, if the rumors of his overseas loans and bank accounts, and questions about his campaign funds are true, he is guilty of violating numerous federal and state statutes, possibly even treason. So maybe not jail, but close house arrest for the next 30 years or so? (Is there a U.S. possession equivalent to Elba? Guantanamo Bay probably wouldn't work.)

It has been suggested, Trump might retire to a country that has no extradition treaty with the United States to escape prosecution, but he has had access to too much highly classified information to permit that to happen. He could too easily unintentionally or intentionally sell us out. Neither he or any of his family and confidants confidants, has ever demonstrated even a remote understanding of, or concern for, national security or secrecy.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56816 11/08/20 06:54 PM
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As far as prosecuting Trump, perhaps we might take a lesson from Gerald Ford. When Nixon resigned and Ford became president, he pardoned Nixon, claiming that this would be better than putting the nation through more trauma. In retrospect, I think that he was right. It probably cost him the election, however, when he lost to Carter.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56817 11/08/20 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
As tempting as Trump in jail sounds, I don't think the United States truly wants to see a former president in jail. Bankrupt, convicted of fraud, accounts frozen, federal and state liens on all his properties here and abroad...
That sounds like a satisfactory compromise.

Originally Posted by joemikeb
So maybe not jail, but close house arrest for the next 30 years or so?
No orange jumpsuit but an orange ankle monitor instead....sounding better all the time.

Last edited by ryck; 11/08/20 07:48 PM.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
jchuzi #56818 11/08/20 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jchuzi
As far as prosecuting Trump, perhaps we might take a lesson from Gerald Ford. When Nixon resigned and Ford became president, he pardoned Nixon, claiming that this would be better than putting the nation through more trauma. In retrospect, I think that he was right. It probably cost him the election, however, when he lost to Carter.
Agreed, and that would work for Federal crimes, but the New York State AG and the New York City AG apparently have sealed indictments against Trump and Trump Corporation under state and civil law and the President does not have the authority to pardon state crimes. Whether any of these charges have jail implications not is unknown until the indictments are unsealed. It would be in Governor Cuomo's purview to absolve or pardon Trump of those charges/crimes.

NIGGLING LEGAL DETAIL: Although it is often said that Nixon was pardoned, you cannot pardon a crime unless there has been a finding of guilt. Nixon resigned before there was any such finding and was absolved of guilt by Gerald Ford.

Last edited by joemikeb; 11/08/20 08:07 PM.

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56819 11/09/20 05:19 PM
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With all due respect, everything I read says that a Pardon can be issued prior to a specific crime and at any time during the process. The Gerald Ford Library says that President Ford Pardoned Richard Nixon for all crimes within a specific time period.

Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56820 11/09/20 07:13 PM
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Quote
Originally Posted by artie505
I think I once said it here, but I"ll say it again: It's no longer the United States of America; it's now the Blue States of America and the Red States of America conjoined at the government.
Quote
Posted by joemikeb
More like the Red suburbs and Blue cities. Even in deeply red Texas all of the major cities, including notoriously conservative Dallas and Fort Worth, voted Democratic. Those voters who cannot tolerate diversity have fled to the suburbs.

An East Coast family member circulated an interesting image that may add some clarity to this. Each graphic is county by county throughout the country, but the first one colors the county based on the outcome of #45 or Biden. The second map is also by county but is colored based on the number of votes in that county. The first part was labeled Land does not vote, and the second part was labeled people vote.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
Douglas #56821 11/10/20 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Douglas
With all due respect, everything I read says that a Pardon can be issued prior to a specific crime and at any time during the process. The Gerald Ford Library says that President Ford Pardoned Richard Nixon for all crimes within a specific time period.
I appreciate the correction, you jogged my memory on the difference. To accept a pardon before conviction is an implied confession of guilt. To be absolved of guilt implies that no guilt attached to the defendant's actions. The difference is subtle but important. Unfortunately the media typically conflates everything: pardon, absolution, setting aside the conviction, and absolution of guilt under the single sobriquet pardon.


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
Ira L #56822 11/10/20 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ira L
An East Coast family member circulated an interesting image that may add some clarity to this. Each graphic is county by county throughout the country, but the first one colors the county based on the outcome of #45 or Biden. The second map is also by county but is colored based on the number of votes in that county. The first part was labeled Land does not vote, and the second part was labeled people vote.
IMO that is a critically important distinction and clearly illustrates why I believe it is so important to retain the electoral college. Without the balance provided by that institution, the unique and important concerns of vast regions of the country would be totally overwhelmed by voters living within 50 to 100 miles of the east and west coasts. The Electoral College is admittedly an imperfect system but, In my opinion, a stroke of genius on the part of the drafters of the Constitution. A significant reason for the survival of our republic resides in the Constitution's efforts to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. I am not saying that the distribution of electoral college votes couldn't, or shouldn't, be "tinkered" with, but I pray the current wave of populism won't throw out the baby with the bathwater. To my way of thinking, a far more important electoral reform would be taking representational districting out of the hands of politicians and putting it into the hands of non-biased computer systems.


If we knew what it was we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?

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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
joemikeb #56823 11/10/20 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by joemikeb
I am not saying that the distribution of electoral college votes couldn't, or shouldn't, be "tinkered" with, but I pray the current wave of populism won't throw out the baby with the bathwater. To my way of thinking, a far more important electoral reform would be taking representational districting out of the hands of politicians and putting it into the hands of non-biased computer systems.
States with 200 electoral votes have already opted for popular vote, and if states with a total of 70 more electoral votes opt for it, it'll be a done deal.

An unbiased system of districting would, indeed, be a wonderful thing!


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Re: The thread formerly known as: Maybe 45 ...
artie505 #56845 11/12/20 07:43 PM
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I am beginning to envision Trump sitting in the midst of his luggage waving an eviction notice on the curb in front of the White House where the Washington police dumped him. I don't know whether that would be more of a comedy or a tragedy. On the other hand tragedy and comedy are the stock in trade of all grew comedians and he doesn't even need makeup.


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