So, my G4 Titanium from 2002, with it's 4th hard drive and 3rd superdrive will be hitting eBay soon. I've hit the wall speed-wise because of so much internet backgrounding processes I guess.

I will be getting a 15" MacBook Pro and Adobe CS4. I can't wait for CS5 to ship and I've been advised (I guess really reminded) that the first version that ships of any major upgrade is really a glorified beta, so I'll wait. I will have a separate posting about which CS package I should get.

Hardware: The 320 HD is fine, does 5400 vs. 7200 make a big speed difference? I can't see where the 2.53 vs. 2.66 processor speed makes any difference whatsoever. The RAM upgrade price is ridiculous, so that's as is. So I guess the *9600M GT with 256MB* is a graphics card. Is it something I can add later if I decide to get into video? I mean, is it expensive by itself or I can't install it myself? (I replaced both drives in my G4 myself.) I am mostly print but I want to try Flash and doing some web stuff. Maybe video, not interested right now but don't want to be limited later.

Printer: Alas, Slolerner is using an AsanteTalk Localtalk to Ethernet Bridge with a Laserwriter 4/600 that is a workhorse and I'd like to keep using it. I don't even know if Snow Leopard 'does' Localtalk. The only other perif I have besides the new backup drive listed below is a CanoScan 9950F which I also like a lot. My iSight camera should be fine, right?

Is there anything else I should be thinking about? Thanks for any input. I am really looking forward to using FW800!

The 5400 vs. 7200 makes a SIGNIFICANT speed difference, especially if you are accustomed to using Photoshop with large swap files.

The 9600M GT is the graphics card. This can not be upgraded later; if you want the better graphics card, you must buy it with the computer. There's no way to upgrade the graphics hardware on a laptop.

If you're referring to Apple's prices, you're right. Third party vendors are much more reasonable so look into Other World Computing, 18004Memory, or Crucial. All of them know Macs and are reliable.

No, Snow Leopard does not do AppleTalk protocols any more! (Leopard does.)

Buy the unit with the lowest possible memory from Apple. Then go to any of the reputable memory dealers online (I use 18004memory) and MAX your ram. The Apple Tax on ram is sick.

The hard drive is also taxed rather heavily, but you will either have to upgrade it yourself or pay someone to do it for you, so it's your call as to whether to get a 7200 or put one in yourself. You'll like having a larger hard drive, and I believe the 500gb's are now availble in 7200 rpm. I know a LOT of people that went for the 320gb's back when the 500's were only available in 5400rpm. (for boot camp speed mainly)

You should think hard as to whether or not you want a 17". If you're going to do be doing graphics work, it can benefit you greatly. I personally would never consider a 17" over my 15" since portability is a very important aspect for me, but for you, screen size may be one of the biggest considerations. If you're going to be using it over 90% of the time sitting on your desk plugged into a 27" flatpanel however, that may not be an issue for you. If you expect to be doing work while mobile with any frequency, while onsite with a client, or need to for example get work done while on a flight, you'd be crazy not to get a 17.

Thanks to all for the input about the 7200 drive. The 320 7200 is fine for now since I have the terrabyte backup and will have FW 800 so I can off-load files I'm not working on. My experience is drives are run into the ground within two years (I don't let them spin-down presently because because it messes up my system for some reason, maybe interferes with croning, maybe it won't be true with the new computer.) I know how to swap drives, maybe the new case makes it more difficult, but like I said, they don't last anyway. Third party memory is a good idea, too. I have bought superdrives and memory from Other World and been very happy with the exception of one tech issue only Tacit could solve! I should qualify why I needed more than one superdrive replacement to begin with because it may be useful to know: It seems that because of the slot loading, if there is a nasty enough piece of nastiness that gets in the drive and gets stuck, it grinds the disks in such a way that it takes out entire tracks and does the worst type of destruction, exactly how they tell you not to wipe a disk, circular.

I never thought about getting a 17 inch. I do drag it around a little bit to show someone something, I don't work on the road or anything. When I had my first ci I had a 15 and a 13 next to it for toolboxes and such. It was nice. I do work on some big stuff, but dragging around a 17"? Hmmmm.... No room for a separate monitor though... Could be added later? Must think about this.

Thanks! Very useful to know. Will specifically ask for Leopard instead of SL.

Thanks!!!

The options for desktop use are nice. You can attach an external monitor, and also a keyboard and mouse if you like. The mac supports "lid closed operation", so when you get to the office you can pull your mbp out, slide it under the foot of your nice 27", and plug in the displayport to the display. Plug in mouse and keyboard, hit a key and it should wake up, with lid closed, and you can use it just like that.

Or you can have the monitor next to the computer and use it as an extended desktop space. A lot of people doing page layout, graphics editing, or video/audio track editing use dual displays, placing their work on one and the pallates/clips/etc on the other. The two displays act like adjacent space and you can drag things left and right, and even have windows that are split partly between displays. It's all very transparent.

slolerner,
I am guessing you are asking about an external camera? If so, the MacBook Pro has a built-in iSight camera. See Technical Specifications for MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2009) and (15-inch, 2.53 GHz, Mid 2009).

tho you can continue to use that camera also. If it's attached, ichat and iphoto tend to prefer it, though other apps will let you select between the two.

The resolution on the original isight camera appears to be lower, but the features (via iglasses), the built in high quality stereo mic, and the movability are hard to ignore. I keep mine.

Bear in mind that any up-to-date Mac will ship with Snow Leopard and that running Leopard on it will not be an option; a Mac, pretty much as a rule, cannot be booted into any version of OS X earlier than the one with which it shipped.

I was intending to post to that effect last night, but my research didn't confirm that assertion. In fact, it's possible that this is one of the notable exceptions.

The current MacBook Pro models were introduced on June 8, 2009 and shipped with OS X 10.5.7. The platform-wide shift to OS X 10.6 occurred on August 28, 2009.

Absent any anecdotal confirmation that the current MacBook Pros can run Leopard, I certainly wouldn't suggest that slolerner take that gamble, but the possibility might warrant further investigation. (It should be noted that in any case, a Leopard retail disc of OS X 10.5.7 or later would be required.)

Thanks for reminding me how long ago the last MBP was released.

I just checked Mactracker and found that the OS X specs for these two MBPs...

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2.53 GHz, Mid 2009) MacBookPros 13 122610DE-2C30-452A-97E5-125BD36CB590

and

MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2009) MacBookPros 14 B75C32FA-8F01-4795-86A1-882BD1E92441

are: Original Mac OS: Mac OS X 10.5.7 (9J3050)

and: Later Mac OS: Mac OS X 10.6 (10A432)

slolerner may have some shopping to do?

I really like using iGlasses. Thanks. And I like being able to position it carefully because sometimes my apartment can get messy!

OS! That doesn't mean Operating System. It means Oh S!#*

I have to start calling vendors, I guess.

Yay! The store I used to work in has them in stock shipping with OS 10.5. I guess it's what they call *new old stock* on eBay! I'll bring my ID and see what they can do about price. Thanks again, all.

Yeah, I remember with the IIci running 2 monitors playing around with the space between the displays and putting objects between them like magic tricks. I had a lot of time on my hands.

Not that you necessarily want SL, but it's possible that the new MBPs that ship with it merely ship with it and can run Leopard nonetheless. (Hence my "may?")

Edit: That would be sweet if you already own the Leopard disc you'd need.

It would be problematic if I didn't and Apple makes it very difficult to buy older systems.

Kudos to Mike for catching this potential problem. Could have been a real headache. Vielen Dank!

Well, it is becoming a nightmare to find one with 10.5. It's not that I am against buying a new printer per se, but I have two 4/600's, if one gets jammed I swap it out for the other and fix it later. They are VERY dependable, though. I have 3 extra cartridges. Can the printer be set up through IP printing? Tried it with my Ti but the printing stops by itself.

The truth is, I am really very upset right now. I bought a Powerbook Pro from where I used to work today, negotiated a very good price and they assured me that it had 10.5 the website said 10.5 and I started it up in the store to check for any dead pixels or a loose hinge and was very careful but the store was busy and I waited until I got to my cousin's to register it because you can't read the "About This Mac" until you do so and it had 10.6! (I didn't think of looking at the disks in the box, dumb me.) The store policy was NO returns on Apple and it took a scene to get my credit card refunded. I was so embarrassed. I just can't get excited about ANYTHING I buy because there is always a problem. I am NOT being a dinosaur by wanting the printers I have. Apple is very good at pretending to be environmentally conscience until it comes to selling new stuff. They obsolete whenever they can. I need to print what I read (I have trouble reading off the screen) and go through 500 sheets of paper a month. I recycle them. I have used one toner cartridge in two years. My printers hardly ever jam and I can swap them out while I clean a jammed one. Now 2 laserwriters and 3 toner cartridges go into the dump. All because they can't include AppleTalk. It's arrogant. It stinks. I am shopping all over and I tried IP printing on my Titanium but it doesn't work. I don't have room to ventilate my Ti to run it as a print server and I need the money in selling it and the 4/600 doesn't have a serial port to use a separate print server. I just want to buy something new and be happy. Is that too much to ask of Apple? They are so greedy. There is no reason for this whatsoever. Now I have to buy a junky printer with very little toner in the cartridge. I really, really, really hate this. I was so excited and it has just become another problem for me.

Quoting myself: "Not that you necessarily want Snow Leopard, but it's possible that the new MBPs that ship with it merely ship with it and can run Leopard nonetheless."

See if somebody in that store in which you used to work will allow you to try to boot one of the new MBPs that shipped with SL into L.

Good luck!

Is there a way to find serial numbers for these so I know what the original system they shipped with was? Maybe I have to buy a used machine. Why would they put a hardware Appletalk processor in and not include the software driver? Obviously, the ones that ship with 10.6 don't do Appletalk, right?

Once again, and I'm not holding out much hope... The ones that ship with 10.6 MAY be capable of booting into 10.5.

You'll have to go to the store with a generic, retail 10.5 disc and experiment, but it would certainly be worth your while to try; you have absolutely nothing to lose.

Edit: I suggest trying with a 10.5.8 disc or bootable clone if possible.

As I noted above, if current MacBook Pros could run OS X 10.5, they would almost certainly require an install disc of 10.5.7 or later, since that's the OS version they originally shipped with.

I guess your post reinforces that.

As I said, I don't really hold out much hope that it will run, but slolerner is so adamant, that it's certainly worth a try...nothing like a bit of empirical evidence to reinforce dogma.

I had called Tekserve prior to buying the computer I did. Tekserve is the major supplier and repair operation other than Apple here in NYC. (For those of you who watch girly TV, Carrie brought her Mac there when she lost everything on her hard drive, but they are not as snarky as portrayed there, just good sports, I guess.) Tekserve said no. But the bigger problem here is that even if it *boots*, I would have to buy it and bring it home to see if it actually *works* with an Appletalk printer. I was extremely lucky that the place I worked was willing to take it back. It is a big store and their policy is absolutely no returns on Macs once the box is opened. I had it for one hour, just enough time to know the system was wrong so my story made perfect sense. I *will* go over to Tekserve today and talk to them in person. I wrote to Blackbox last night. They seem to have a doodad that does everything.

First of all, I apologize to all for my crankiness lately. Hopefully, this will all add up to a happy ending. I really, really appreciate everyone's generous help. Now, here's a question:



Do you know the latest ship date for the ones that ran 10.5? Other than that, I have to look up serial numbers to see what system the ones I am finding shipped with. I am uncovering some "new old stock." Is it also true that my PPC programs that I don't use often and aren't worth upgrading won't even *run* under the newer system? Again, I'm sorry to blow off steam. Your help has been and continues to be priceless.

FWIW I have yet to run into an intel machine that won't boot off the Service Leopard partition. It's possible that the firmware in even the newest machines is OK with Leopard.

It should be noted however that I did have to reinstall Leopard from a Mac Pro image when the newer mac pro was swapped in over here, it would KP if I booted off my service leopard. I didn't spend the time to track down why, but I assume I'd have seen a "no drivers for supported platform xxxx" message in verbose indicating it did not find a driver for a critical bit of hardware. (such as CPU, usb bus, etc)

Leopard and Snow Leopard are very very similar.

If they are for OSX (not Classic only), they will run, that's what "Rosetta" is for.

Does 10.6 have Rosetta?

I'm sorry, does this mean that you have a machine that shipped with SL that you can boot with Leopard and see if Appletalk shows up as a network protocol? BTW, what does FWIW and KP mean?

Yes, it's an optional install. If you'd try to run a PPC app in SL without Rosetta, it will be automaticly pulled from the internet (if possible).

FWIW = for what it's worth
KP = kernel panic

- FWIW: For What It's Worth (see the Internet Acronyms Dictionary for more)
- KP: Kernel Panic (see Resolving Kernel Panics for more details)


Ha! Cyn beat me to the punch.

MY FINAL DECISION!!!

Apple MacBook Pro 15"/ Glossy widescreen/ 2.66GHz/ 4GB/ 320GB at 7200rpm/ NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT with 256MB/ SuperDrive (I will have them customize it if it doesn't come with DL)

System 10.6! I'm buying a brand spanking new machine after reading all about Snow Leopard. It does have its advantages. With the rate at which Apple introduces systems, it will be obsolete soon enough, anyway, so I would be wise to at least experience cutting edge again, like I did when I bought the Ti. My family is chipping in and I can get a nice discount elsewhere from someone I know and so I can afford to keep the Ti as a print server until there is a workaround or I see a low-maintenance printer I like with no pressure to buy one right away. This web site has some things I can try:

http://theappleblog.com/2009/09/04/how-to-resurrect-your-appletalk-printer-in-snow-leopard/

The kernel in my head has officially stopped panicking. Phew!

It's on backorder!!! I'll keep you *posted*

Speaking of KP's, I have a cool prank you can play your iPod. You do a screen capture of a KP, not the walking Mac one, the restart one with the different languages so it shows up well small. You load a bunch of these into the pictures section, choose pictures from the menu, and bring it to the repair place and show it to them.

That's appropriate for tomorrow, April Fools Day. Whether it's safe to do it at a repair place is another question...

I always enjoy setting someone's windows machine screen saver to a BSD. It's so much more believable

Speaking of BSD... the PC tech here said that the new windows 7 default action on page fault is NOT to bsd, but to spontaneously reboot. Smacks of "you didn't see that. nothing happened. nothing is wrong. we're fine. go about your business, we're completely stable, nothing to see here..."

I never said I was smart.