... Is it even worth saving or should I just replace it? I still need help with it.

That really depends on what you want to do, computing-wise.

I think if you just do email, word processing and light web surfing, that computer would be fine. You might consider upgrading it to run OS X Tiger 10.4 for a speed boost, assuming you have enough RAM.

If you need your laptop for applications that use more resources, then I'd recommend you get a new one so you can run OS X Leopard (10.5) or the upcoming Snow Leopard to get the advantages of the new operating systems. You can always keep the TiBook around for something nifty too, like running home automation software.

If your main concern is being able to get help with a computer that old, I think you'll find people can still assist with it. Upgrading to OS X Tiger will help that situation.

I've got 256 MB of RAM. I used to use it for Photoshop and Music. We really don't have enough money for a BRAND new one.

OK, gotcha. Looks like you could upgrade that TiBook to 1GB RAM for about $60 (2 x 512MB chips) plus the cost of installation, using prices from Other World Computing for the RAM. If you're at all inclined to do so, you could install the RAM yourself with instructions from Apple's web site. It's relatively easy.

Doing so would greatly speed up your computer and Photoshop, since the TiBook would have to use virtual memory much less often.

Incidentally, what speed is your TiBook, or what is the model number on it?

550 mHz (gigabit ethernet)

In addition to maxing out your RAM (as suggested by Rick Deckard) I urge you, in no uncertain terms, to upgrade your OS to no less than 10.3.9, the final incarnation of Panther (Edit: It was a*major* improvement over Jaguar.); your TiBook will also support OS X 10.4.11, the final incarnation of Tiger, but I'm not certain how well that will run on a 550MHz machine. (In all likelihood, others will advise you.)

Note that Panther comes on CDs, but Tiger, in its inexpensive form, is on DVDs, so you'll need a DVD capable optical drive to install it. (CDs are available, but they tend to be prohibitively expensive.)

Note also that if you buy either OS you want to buy generic, i.e. *black label*, retail install discs; discs with grey labels are machine specific, and unless you are lucky enough to find a set that originally shipped with your *precise* model of Mac you will be throwing your money away.

Next, I suggest that you free up as much space on your HD as you can by off-loading (to an external HD if necessary) stuff, such as music, that takes up a lot of space; together with maxing out your RAM (Edit: Note that Photoshop is a notorious RAM hog!), this will enable your Mac to run better.

And in closing, I'll mention that a new Mac does not have to be all that expensive; a bottom of the line MacBook (Click on Tech Specs to be amazed!) costs only $999 and can be had for less if you buy a refurb *directly from Apple*. (I'd be wary of anything for sale on eBay...too many problems with such stuff have been posted.)

A Mac Mini can be had for only $599, but you'll need a monitor and keyboard.

Hope this helps.

If you follow Rick's advice and upgrade to 1 GB RAM, Tiger should run fine. I ran it on my G4 DP 450 (slower processor than your TiBook) and it was very fast.

Thanks, Jon; I should have remembered your history, having already read it once or twice.

(First time I've ever been, and, likely, the last time I'll ever be, ahead of you in post count. )

I was given a tibook with intent of adding it as a machine here for lan parties. Although that never materialized, it's become a good addition to my guest room here as a computer that visiting guests can use while they stay.

Being a tibook, not surprisingly, the last time I tried to open the lid, the left hinge broke. Not a big deal, it's going to sit on that desk with the lid open for the remainder of its life. Works great for web browsing, webmail reading, google maps, and I even set up chicken of the vnc to remote into my mom's imac at her home when she visits.

It's probably about the best use I can imagine for such a machine at this time, given the high odds of hinge failure in any tibook.

If you all remember, Mine cannot see the internal HD because something went wrong with OS 9.2 (that it was trying to boot off of) and all it does after the chime is come up with a folder with a flashing question mark and Finder. Since I don't have a disc, Is there any way to make it see the internal HD?

The flashing question mark issue was one that I used to fix with Disk Warrior on a regular basis with OS 9. It always found small problems with the disk directory if I remember correctly. I've never had that problem with OS X.

I think if you used Disk Warrior on that TiBook it would fix the issue, but you might try giving Alsoft a call and make sure the latest version of DW will boot up and run on it. I believe it will and it's a great utility, but I'd hate to have you buy it and find out it won't do the job due to the age of your setup. You could also find a friend who has a copy and go that route.

If you get it back up and running, definitely get the extra RAM and upgrade to at least OS X Panther or Tiger as artie505 suggests. You'll think you got a new machine with the kick both of those upgrades will add.

Also consider just using Classic if you need OS 9 unless there's a specific reason to boot into it. I bought my original MDD Power Mac so I could dual boot OS 9 and OS X on it, but once I got my feet wet with OS X I never looked back. Classic will run nearly everything you need it to, with the added benefit of keeping you in OS X most of the time and all of the goodness that brings.

Can you actually BOOT off of DW?

Can you boot off an OS 9 CD and change your startup disk?

Yes you can!

Yes, provided that there is nothing else wrong with your computer. In fact, you can only use Disk Warrior to rebuild the directory while either booted from the DW CD or from another volume that has DW installed.

I dont have any discs...

> Can you actually BOOT off of DW?

>Yes you can!

> Yes, provided that there is nothing else wrong with your computer. In fact, you can only use Disk Warrior to rebuild the directory while either booted from the DW CD or from another (Edit: *bootable*) volume that has DW installed. (Jon's post edited by Artie)

That "Yes" needs to be qualified...

Since DW 4 was released, changes in the OS X boot procedure have left *all* v4 *discs* unable to boot Macs introduced subsequent to their introduction, the reason being that Apple does not allow even the truncated version of OS X used to boot DW to be d/l'ed, so Alsoft may not offer updates to existing owners.

Owners of such DW discs must either have a separate volume from which to boot or purchase new discs. (I am not aware of any program that enables them to get new discs at a discounted price.)

> I dont have any discs...

Without *any* discs you are up the proverbial creek!

My advise to you is to plan a course of action that will deliver upgrades in software, hardware, or both, i.e. new discs or new Mac.

In the meantime, have you tried booting your TiBook into Single-user Mode and running fsck? (fsck [a/k/a "Repair Disk"] is not nearly as robust as are DW and its ilk, but it does work sometimes and may successfully address whatever ails your Mac.)

I hope your data are fully backed up.

There you just encountered one of, perhaps the greatest, advantage of TechTool Pro, the eDrive. Understandably Micromat neither supports nor condones the practice, but no small number of TTP users have DiskWarrior installed in TTP's eDrive. The eDrive eliminates the common issue with all disk repair utilities, the necessity of a currently bootable CD/DVD, for performing volume structure repairs at the expense of a relatively nominal amount of space on the hard drive.

However, that isn't solving your present problem. Given your lack of a bootable DiskWarrior CD/DVD your best option is probably finding another Mac user with a copy of DiskWarrior, Drive Genius, or TechTool Pro installed. Then you could connect your TIBook to their Mac with a six pin to six pin firewire cable, boot your TIBook into Firewire Target Disk mode by holding the T key during a cold boot. Then you could use the industrial strength volume repair utility on the other Mac to see if it can "fix" your hard drive.

FWIW I strongly concur with the suggestions to upgrade your TIBook with more RAM and a more recent version of OS X. With 1 GB of RAM there is no reason you couldn't run OS X 10.4.11 and have decent performance. I'm not sure I would spend much more than that on a Mac of that generation.

It won't boot into either Single user on verbose mode and all I have backed up is photoshop. nothing else is important. Sometimes when I turn it on after it does the chime it makes this funny noise that's hard to explain.

Does one of these hard drive noises sound familiar?

Nope not really. It's the original HD and the noise is really loud. It doesn't do it very often though.
and, even more rarely, it doesn't chime and instead beeps 3 times and then the sleep light blinks 4 or 5 times.

You could have bad RAM or a bad logic board. Read Power On Self-Test Beep Definition. Considering that it is a portable and RAM can come loose more easily than in a desktop, remove each RAM module and re-seat it. This may not solve the problem but it's worth a try and it's certainly cheap to do.

I need to get it to boot first!

You don't need to get it to boot (that's the whole point). If RAM is loose or defective, or the logic board is bad, the computer may not boot. So, you want to reseat the RAM before attempting to boot. This manual has the instructions. Start on page 7 and read carefully.

Garbage Woman,

Hold on for a minute while I try to find the manual for your PowerBook G4 as opposed to a PowerBook G3 FireWire.

Errr... that's scary. I don't Want to mess something up.
Edit: ok dianne. thank you.

Powerbook G4 manual. Wait for Dianne to post in case I got it wrong again. Sorry!

it's okay! is that one for the 550/ gigabit ethernet model?

What I think the problem with the RAM is that there is not enough.

Yes, there were several models of the G4 PowerBook that used the same case design, and those instructions should work for yours. It's easy enough to tell by seeing if the instructions and diagrams match what you see on the outside of your G4 before you start.


While that's certainly true, it would not cause the 3 beeps you are hearing at startup. That's a bad/unseated RAM or logic board issue, as jchuzi suggests.

Ok, so what should I do?

Garbage Woman,

Here you go. PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet) -- processor speed 550 MHz -- also called Onyx.

Even though the .pdf is titled Memory Replacement Instructions, it will help you check if the RAM is firmly seated. The illustrations / figures are at the end of the file.

In addition, I have found this site, iFixit, a good resource.

You will find a link to the PowerBook G4 Titanium Onyx troubleshooting guide and more here: PowerBook G4 Titanium Onyx Repair.

I encourage you to read the information in the links and look at the pictures even if you do not want to undertake hardware troubleshooting at this time.

As far as I can tell, you only have two options if you want to use a Macintosh computer:

1. take the PowerBook G4 to an AASP for hardware and software diagnosis and possible repair. See: How to find your nearest Apple Authorised Service Provider.
   or
2. purchase a new or refurbished Macintosh. See the Special Deals section at the bottom left of this page: The Apple Store (U.S.). You might also check to see if you qualify for a discount at the Education Store.

I understand you do not want to / cannot spend any money. The hard thing is that you are going to have to. It is just a matter of picking where you are going to put the dollars.

I wish I could be of more help, but without any discs you do not have any tools to use which might help us be of help to your Macintosh.

Thank You. I will check the RAM tomorrow. Even if I have to, It's going to be very hard to let go of this Mac. It has been through so much with me. including my first surgery. Again, thank you.

I just got done chatting with an "Apple expert" and they said that they recommend the 15" MacBook Pro 2.53GHZ. they also said that the Genius Bar people would still help me. What do you think?

Production of your PowerBook ended April 2002, which means it is just over seven years old. Generally Apple models over seven years old are considered obsolete and the Genius Desk is not supposed to offer repairs for them. However unless Apple has formally declared your PB model obsolete they will still take it.

Even if they can't offer repair services for an obsolete model I have found the Geniuses around here willing to at least test and offer suggestions for obsolete Macs. The ones I have run into are generally pretty nice folks and they are all dedicated Mac users themselves.

As to the possibility of your moving up to a new MacBook or MacBook Pro, you may get whiplash of the brain the first time you turn it on; it will be so much faster and have so much more disk space than your G4 PowerBook. And when Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6) comes out it will get even faster.

If you should take your PB to the Genius Desk be sure and mention all the help you have received at FineTunedMac. Every little bit helps get the word out about our new site.

IF I can get my dad to take me there!

And now, Apple again offers matte screen option for 15-inch MacBook Pro.

CRAP!! I can't get the RAM back in!! the bottom one won't snap bak into place.

GOT IT!

Is it working?

No. Still a folder with a flashing question mar and Finder.

Oh phooey! At least it didn't cost anything to try.

If you want to see what it's doing, Go to the thread called "I miss my Mac!" in the lounge. I made a tribute video to it and I recorded all the stuff that it did.

Based on your brief description of your computing habits it sounds like it may be overkill!

Wll I old hem hat I would use Photoshop AND play The Sims.

I know nada from The Sims, but are you running Photoshop as a power-user/pro?

No, but I did have the full suite on my Tibook. It was old though. Version 5.5.

I doubt any 7th grader would need more than a Macbook. Heck, my wife is in 18th grade and her two-yr-old Macbook is plenty -- and she runs Final Cut Pro.

what's that?

I agree with donikatz. Unless you are doing heavy duty commercial level work using Apple's Pro tools or you are doing huge photoshop images, a MacBook should have plenty of compute power for 70% or more of laptop users. Two caveats

1. Max out the RAM (and buy it from someone like Other World Computing or Crucial but not from Apple as they are too proud of their RAM).
2. Get the biggest hard drive Apple offers, if you don't need it now, you will need it next year or the year after.

and those are the same caveats I would apply no matter whether your were getting a MacBook, MacBook Air, or MacBook Pro.

Final Cut Pro is Apple's high-end video editing app. Much more demanding than most average Photoshop use. She also does some occasional Adobe CS3 (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro) work without any problems. Any new Mac can almost certainly your needs. The need for a higher-end pro-marketed machine for the soho (small office/home office) user just isn't usually there anymore. In general the industry has gotten to the point where even "low end" PCs are pretty darn good. (Heck, I even tried out Photoshop CS4 and Acrobat Pro 9 on my $300 hackintosh netbook and they ran pretty decently.)

I just took my Mac to this guy at school that was trying to help me last year. He's got a ruby iMac with Panther and we're going to see if it will boot from that.

Agreed!

My Early 2009 MacBook lacks *nothing* I consider necessary (FireWire 800 would be nice, but it's hardly necessary.); I expect it will suffice for many years.

I don't think you've run the Apple Hardware Test on your PowerBook, because you haven't got any discs, but with the help of this Apple doc "you can download the appropriate CD image listed below and burn an AHT CD." (Credit to knoodles for the link.)

After you burn your CD, boot your PB from it, run the "Extended Test" in loop-mode (control-L) for *at least* 5 loops, and see what, if anything, it tells you.

Keep us posted

OK. I will try.

Ok, instead of his iMac, the guy at school told me he was going to bring his other Mac with Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah I think?) and try to boot off of that. Will it work?

Ouch, why would your friend bother to run OS X 10.0? It was a barely-ready OS that was almost more a proof-of-concept than a viable commercial release. In other words: it sucked.

That said, your Mac would be booting to Target Disk Mode, so it doesn't really matter the other OS; It should work.

He doesn't care what Mac OS it is. He isn't really aware of how old that OS is. He's new to Macs. He's one of the special ed teachers and he is my friend. What I meant was, If you press the option key to go into Startup Manager, will the Powerbook boot into OS X so I can change my Startup Disk?

Right, sorry, wasn't meaning to insult your friend. More to insult that version of Mac OS X.

Anyhow, it doesn't exactly work that way. To boot from another Mac, you boot that Mac, and then boot your Mac into Target Disk Mode, which basically makes it mount a drive on the first Mac (your friend's). In other words, it's not all that useful for your troubleshooting, now that I've read back a little and read the earlier posts. I'd suggest following Artie's idea. Hopefully you can use your friend's Mac to download and burn the hardware test disc.

Ok. Gotcha. But can you boot a mac from Target Disk mpde and change the Startup disc on it?

When you boot a Mac from TDM, it will act like an external hard drive. So you won't have direct access to the System Preferences, you'll only be able to attach it to another Mac and see the file system.

But what help would that do me?

Exactly: In your situation, I don't think it would be much help. I'd recommend following Artie's good advice and burning an AHT disc. Then try booting from the CD, either by holding down 'C' at boot, or booting to startup disk selection mode (holding <option> at boot) and selecting the CD.

EDIT: Wait, correction: Where it's useful, is to see whether your friend's iMac can even detect the drive. If you can boot to TDM (holding 'T') and access your drive from your friend's Mac, it at least tells you basic info that your drive is readable. Then booting from AHT will give you more testing info. Normally it might be useful to run utilities right from your friend's Mac, but since he's running OS X 10.0, I wouldn't.

His iMac is running 10.3.6 I think. This is a different Mac.

Sorry, I mean his Mac, iMac, Power Mac... whatever Mac you're connecting it to. You get the idea...

i know! actually, I don't think he even knows what kind of Mac it is! He's got 2...

Will a Mac capable of running 10.0 have FireWire capability?

I *think* not, but you've been around Macs longer than I have.

I'm not all too sure about a Raspberry iBook, either, but I can't find that color listed in MacTracker.

Edit: Sorry... It's a "Ruby," and it's got FW 400 if it runs at 400MHz+, and yeah... A Mac capable of running 10.0 can have FireWire capability. (Didn't think it went back that far.)

Hey! I'm at an Apple Store! YAAAY! I'm using a MacBook PRO!! It feels so GOOD to use a Mac again!

> Max out the RAM [....]. (Post #1094, above)

For the benefit of PChaterosx and other interested individuals, that *very* general statement has been fleshed out and explored in this thread.

Duuuh! I'm a bit slow on the uptake lately.

The guy at school said that he got ANOTHER Mac, and it was DOA. He didn't tell me much about it except that it was some kind if PowerBook.

OMG! Now he has 4! Why doesn't he just GIVE me one? BTW, If the Apple store won't help me my dad met this IT dude and he works on Macs.

> Why doesn't he just GIVE me one?

Didn't you say they're all or mostly dead?

You still haven't told us whether you've burned an Apple Hardware Test disc and whether you learned anything from running it.

Nope. Can I burn it from Windows
xp?

> Can I burn it from Windows xp?

Hmmm... According to Apple Hardware Test Images and Information


so you may need a Mac to burn a disc.

I say "may," because the quote is ambiguous in that there has not been a Disc Copy app in OS X since i dunno when, maybe never; it may have disappeared with OS 9.

CDs are cheap enough; why don't you d/l the dmg, burn it, and see if it works?

Good luck!

If it's a .dmg, How will I boot from it?

I'd test if I still had an applicable Mac, but I think you can boot from a burned dmg.

Input, please.

(Edit: I don't remember if you depress "C" or "D.")

You can burn some DMGs in Windows easily enough, but I'm pretty sure you won't be able to burn a compressed bootable DMG without first having a Mac to convert it to something more universal. In other words: I'd suggest just having that Mac-happy friend burn the DMG on one of his Macs (using Disk Utility).

Once you have the burned CD, you can boot from it by holding the 'C' key on boot, or by holding the 'option' key to go into the open firmware boot disk selection menu.

Thanks for the clarification.