I have a 27" imac 12/09, and a Macbook air 11" 2012. They have had good runs but are both having issues. The desktop needs more Ram and a new Hardrive (I would get an SSD). The laptop need a new hardrive as well as the 65GB is now too small.
I could keep investing in these two machines, but would like to ask: When does one decide to upgrade desktops and laptops in general-- even though you could just keep replacing stuff?
I would ask myself the following questions:
1. Does the computer fulfill my needs? If not, will it if I upgrade by adding RAM and/or a higher capacity hard drive?
2. Will the computer run the latest OS? It's hard to judge if it will run future OS's but the chances are that, sometime in the future, it will not. Both of yours will run the latest version.
3. How much am I willing to spend?
4. Is the computer listed as Obsolete or Vintage by Apple? If the former, Apple no longer will repair it nor supply parts. You can check with
MacTracker. (For the record, your iMac is listed as Vintage and your MB Air as Supported. Vintage machines will sooner or later, probably sooner, become Obsolete.)
5. Regardless of practicality or price, would I get some pleasure from having the latest and greatest? After all, you only live once.
I was very happy with my early 2008 Mac Pro, but its maximum OS was 10.7. I was running 10.6.8 but that OS was not supported anymore.
There's no "general" answer to your question.
I'd say that the most compelling reasons to upgrade are that your Mac can't run the latest operating system (Both of yours can.) or you need more computing power, that the most compelling reason to stick with what you've got is money, and that there's an awful lot of room for likes, dislike, and idiosyncrasies between the two.
Great answer Jon thanks. Actually I was thinking of extending these out as long as possible.. but then it hits you: do I want to be "investing" (hundreds of dollars ) in this old computer....
PS dowloaded Mactracker, thanks, where do you see if marked obsolete or vintage, did not see. Also I Like you can add yours to a my list, but I clicked add buttom and just got some weird dialoge box saying untitled smart category/ did not make sense to me.
You iMac has achieved vintage status, your MacBook Air is supported.
Thanks Joe, where does one see that on app?
Thanks Joe, where does one see that on app?
Select the General tab and look for Support Status.
Thanks Jon, now I see it!
It would be nice to have my model in the my model section, but I don't see an intuitive way to get it in there quickly. I think they want you to manually enter everything in?
I think the assumption is Mactracker will be used to keep records about multiple devices many of which are remotely located and there is no way for the app to get the information on all the devices. For example I have three Mac minis, two iPads, two Apple watches, three Apple TVs, two Time Capsules, and three Airport Express devices. There are apps that can detect and record some information about networked devices but they still require a LOT of manual input.
Thanks Joe, what I meant was it would be nice to just be able to drag their window blurbs into that box called My Products, just as a quick reference of my old computers. I don't see a way to do that. (hope that was clear, may not be still)
You don't own laptops or desktops anymore? Just attach the mc minis to displays?
And what is a Timecapsule!
I decided for the macbook air to buy from OCW, a kit of 128 SSD. The video was real good, and I got a great tech guy on the phone.
But as I was unscrewing the last screw on the plate, it would not come out. This screw did not have the 5 ridges the others had. It was a perfect circle. The computer has never been serviced. So we could not get it out. So he recommended I take it into the Apple store to show them that. Which I may do.
50 min of the workday, on the phone getting the plate almost off, then putting it back, as I lost a couple of the little screws, but found them, and I'm back to where I was.
Did you take a look at the bad screw with a magnifying glass to see if it shows signs of having been stripped...as in somebody had been working on it and did a lousy job?
There's as little way to screw that perfect circle in as there is to screw it out.
ARtie, thanks, I've looked and doubled looked, its a perfect circle, no way for a driver to grip it. Yet the unit has never been serviced once. Baffling.
What did this mean?
There's as little way to screw that perfect circle in as there is to screw it out.
ARtie, thanks, I've looked and doubled looked, its a perfect circle, no way for a driver to grip it. Yet the unit has never been serviced once. Baffling.
What did this mean?
There's as little way to screw that perfect circle in as there is to screw it out. (Emphasis added)
If there's no way for a driver to grip it, how on Earth did it get screwed in in the first place?
That's why I was thinking that perhaps the pentalobe got stripped out when the screw was screwed in, but if that's the case you ought to be able to see signs of it with a good magnifying glass.
With a magnifying glass it appears as the other screws but a perfect circle. I think Apple installed it that way. Maybe the factory only had the circle screw that day, ran out? just guessing.
But what tool can you imagine that would work with such a screw?
My knowledge is by no means encyclopedic, but I'm at a total loss as to how you'd screw/unscrew a screw that's got nothing to "grab".
(I'd try the Genius Bar before doing anything else, but the only way to get that screw out may be with Crazy Glue.)
Edit: Another insidious Apple way of preventing you from working on your own Mac? (Which begs the question of how does anybody work on it?)
For whatever reason Apple has a penchant for using different screw head types to hold the same assembly in place. For example the logic board in some Mac mini models is secured by four torx screws and one hex screw. OWC's disassembly instructions carefully warn that although a T8 driver will work on all five there is a definite risk of stripping the hex screw unless you are very careful. I am wondering if that is the case here? A screw head for a small hex driver can be deceiving to the eye.
Thanks Joe, no, these were all same size. The last one would not turn. I'm thinking either I stripped it, though I doubt it, as I never got a grip, or maybe when the apple store when they put in a new batter did years ago? Or Apple install one oddball screw.
IN any case it was highly stressful, I lost a full hour of the day to no good end. I now have a new issue to deal with. I'm much less inclined to DIY in the future.
I did not even get the thing opened!
IN any case it was highly stressful, I lost a full hour of the day to no good end. I now have a new issue to deal with. I'm much less inclined to DIY in the future.
I have don't several DIY upgrades in the past, but after watching OWC's DIY videos to upgrade the drive on my Mac mini I decided their Turnkey installation was well worth the time and modest additional cost.
I've seen some high-security screws that look like perfect circles but are actually veeeeery slightly oblong, so slightly that it's hard to tell. The tool that opens them is also a very slight oblong. The screws in a cable box I once had were this way.
There's a trick to removing them, if you don't mind not getting the screw or the tool back. Find a tool that fits in the circle, like a small pentalobe or hex driver tool. Put a tiny drop of super glue on the end of the tool, being very careful not to let it spill down the side of the tool (you don't want it getting on the threads of the screw). Press it into the screw, hold it for ten seconds, then turn the tool and remove the screw.
If you absolutely must have the screw back, heat it up to melt the Crazy Glue.
I suggested Crazy Glue as a possibility a few posts back; thanks for confirming it. (I wasn't sure if the glue could handle the torque force.)
I've found that acetone (nail polish remover) dissolves Crazy Glue if it can get to it.
I had no idea acetone would dissolve Crazy Glue. Good to know!
I'd better clarify: I use Crazy Glue to glue a necklace I wear together; I glue a Duco Cement coated shoelace into a silver fitting, and the bond holds for years.
When the shoelace finally needs to be replaced I soak the assembly in acetone, and it comes apart.
I don't know how many situations allow the acetone to contact the glue so thoroughly, but in those that it does, possibly many more than I'd think it would, it works.
(Edit: I've always had the impression that all those organic compounds dissolve each other given enough time and effort.)
I'm taking it in to 3rd party Mac guy, no more DIY for awhile!
I'm with you on DIY, but now that you've mentioned that Apple worked on it...that there's a possibility that they damaged the screw I'd take the Air to the Genius Bar before doing anything else.
(I've had notably bad luck with Macs that have gone to depot as yours may have...poorly done work, case damage, and even one instance in which a Mac sent in with a brand new battery came back with a bad one.)
That screw sounds like it may be a job to remove, and if Apple necessitated it, well...Apple should do it!
"decided their Turnkey installation was well worth the cost"
Joe, what does that mean? You shipped in your computer to them, or you do the DIY?
Got lucky, I found a place nearby, much closer than Apple to install and do for $75.00.
With apple it would have been hours to get them to just remove and replace the screw, the local shop is including that in the deal of putting in the hardrive.
Good luck!
(For future reference and the benefit of all, please ask them how they're going to get that screw out and let us know.)
I did not want to ask, in fear of the answer bringing up the price, I'll try to remember when done....
Good point!
Nothing to be gained from making them think more than they've got to at the moment.
Most hardware stores carry cyanoacrylate (a.k.a. super glue) solvent and any woodworking store will have several efferent brands and generally it is easier to control, is less damaging to human skin, and has fewer fumes that Benzine. (it may be a form of Benzine for all I know but it is a formulation specific to the task.)
By-the-way the cyano in cyanoacrylate is cyanide so it is a wise practice NEVER use cyanoacrylate adhesives in a closed area.
Personally I would use hot glue — woodworker or industrial grade not the craft store grade — rather than cyanoacrylate in the situation Tacit described. Cyanoacrylate can damage circuit boards and when hot glue releases it usually pops off completely or can easily be picked off with a sharp pointed tool such as an awl or even better a dentist's pick.
"decided their Turnkey installation was well worth the cost"
Joe, what does that mean? You shipped in your computer to them, or you do the DIY?
It means OWC overnighted a box to me, I placed the mini in the carefully padded box and dropped it off at a FedEx drop. The next morning OWC called to clarify a couple of things about my order and the day after that the FedEx driver handed the box back to me complete with the upgraded mini, my old SSD in an external enclosure, and my old 5400 RPM spinning rust I have since put into an enclosure I had sitting around.
That's what I should have done! But I wanted to save money!
The local guys seems cool, we'll see... $75
BTW Joe, since he has my macbook air, which serves as my living room TV, I put the old, now old 27" there to watch TV today, and was thinking hey, for a few hundred dollars I could use the nicer dislpay 27 as the TV (upgrade ssd/ ram), and then I don't have to cord and uncord the macbook every day as I'm doing, which I use to read... But... I thinking maybe not.. as then I'd have 3 main units, the new 27", the old 27" and the macbook, and most software right, photoshop, office, only let's you have two copies correct?
Most hardware stores carry cyanoacrylate (a.k.a. super glue) solvent and any woodworking store will have several efferent brands and generally it is easier to control, is less damaging to human skin, and has fewer fumes that Benzine. (it may be a form of Benzine for all I know but it is a formulation specific to the task.)
By-the-way the cyano in cyanoacrylate is cyanide so it is a wise practice NEVER use cyanoacrylate adhesives in a closed area.
Personally I would use hot glue — woodworker or industrial grade not the craft store grade — rather than cyanoacrylate in the situation Tacit described. Cyanoacrylate can damage circuit boards and when hot glue releases it usually pops off completely or can easily be picked off with a sharp pointed tool such as an awl or even better a dentist's pick.
I said acetone, not benzine, but all those organics smell kinda like each other. (I sometimes walk past the local auto-body shop just to huff paint!
)
My fingertips split from the dry steam heat during the winter, and I use Crazy Glue to close the splits rather than deal with BandAid slivers.
I use it in such minuscule quantities, though, that I've never picked up a smell from it, and I wonder how much it would take to have a toxic effect?
Could hot glue really withstand the torque force involved in unscrewing a screw, particularly one with as small a grip area as kevs's? I wasn't even certain about Crazy Glue which I'd think is the more likely of the two to accomplish the job.
Hot glue would certainly be a "safer" choice in this instance, though, because there'd be virtually no worry about its getting into the screw threads and sealing the machine. (Edit: I wouldn't use Crazy Glue anywhere near a circuit board either.)
It means OWC overnighted a box to me, I placed the mini in the carefully padded box and dropped it off at a FedEx drop. The next morning OWC called to clarify a couple of things about my order and the day after that the FedEx driver handed the box back to me complete with the upgraded mini, my old SSD in an external enclosure, and my old 5400 RPM spinning rust I have since put into an enclosure I had sitting around.
Sounds like you got back one drive more than you sent out, albeit a rusty one!
BTW Joe, since he has my macbook air, which serves as my living room TV, I put the old, now old 27" there to watch TV today, and was thinking hey, for a few hundred dollars I could use the nicer dislpay 27 as the TV (upgrade ssd/ ram), and then I don't have to cord and uncord the macbook every day as I'm doing, which I use to read... But... I thinking maybe not.. as then I'd have 3 main units, the new 27", the old 27" and the macbook, and most software right, photoshop, office, only let's you have two copies correct?
Even if that's the case, you can just uninstall the software from the living room iMac which you presumably won't be using for computing any more.
…and most software right, photoshop, office, only let's you have two copies correct?
The number of allowable software installations per license varies all over the map.
- Apple permits five authorized computers to use App store offerings but OS X and iOS licenses must be purchased separately.
- Small third party developers seldom go to the expense of an enforcement system for their apps, depending instead on the intrinsic honesty of their users.
- Adobe controls the number of installations via the internet and installing a third installation using the same license requires deactivating one of the previous installations. A single Adobe CS license covers Windows, OS X, and/or iOS installations.
- Microsoft has two lines Office 365 and Office 2016 Suites and different versions within each line.
Office 365 Home
An Office 365 Home subscription includes:
A personalized Office experience for everyone in your household on up to 5 PCs or Macs, 5 tablets and 5 phones (including Windows, Apple, and Android devices)2
Full installed 2016 versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Publisher1, and Access1
One TB of Microsoft OneDrive cloud storage per user, for up to 5 users.
Sixty minutes of Skype world minutes per user, for up to 5 users.3
Upgrades always included
Expert Office technical support included
Non-commercial use rights
Office 365 Personal
An Office 365 Personal subscription includes:
A personalize Office experience designed for individuals with 1 PC or Mac, plus 1 tablet and 1 phone2
Full installed 2016 versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Publisher1, and Access1
One TB of Microsoft OneDrive cloud storage.
Sixty minutes of Skype world minutes.3
New upgrades always included
Expert Office technical support
Non-commercial use rights
Office 365 University4
An Office 365 University subscription includes:
Full versions of Office for higher education students, faculty and staff on up to 2 PCs or Macs, 2 tablets (including Windows, Apple, and Android devices)2
All the benefits of Office 365 Home Premium at a great price for students
Eligibility verification required in product
Four-year subscription for one user
Non-commercial use rights
Office 2016 suites include:
Office Home and Student 2016
Includes the 2016 versions of Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote
One-time purchase for 1 PC or Mac1
Transferable license*
Non-commercial use rights
Office Home and Business 2016
Includes the 2016 versions of Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote and Outlook
One-time purchase for 1 PC or Mac1
Transferable license*
Commercial use rights
Office Professional 20162
Includes the 2016 versions of Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook, Access and Publisher
One-time purchase for 1 PC1
Transferable license*
Commercial use rights
* You may transfer the software to another computer that belongs to you, but not more than one time every 90 days (except due to hardware failure, in which case you may transfer sooner). If you transfer the software to another computer, that other computer becomes the "licensed computer." You may also transfer the software (together with the license) to a computer owned by someone else if a) you are the first licensed user of the software and b) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement before the transfer. Any time you transfer the software to a new computer, you must remove the software from the prior computer, and you may not retain any copies.
Thanks Joe, good info.
I only have a few software that are important. The most is Office word/ excel. I'm on 2011. I just read the reviews yesterday for 2016, and they are so bad, 55 one star reviews
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msus...ac_ModE_HS16Mac I may hold off for a year or two. I am not interested in subscription, I don't need cloud space... so look at this:
Includes the 2016 versions of Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote
One-time purchase for 1 PC or Mac1
ARe they saying you cannot put Word on even your laptop? Or I think they assume you have a desktop and a latop, but not 2 desktops and a laptop.
And as you just mentioned Adobe strictly allows only 2 computers. Right?
I could us other versions... an old CS5 on one...
So see idea of having 2 work stations in the house, and then a mobile workstation ( a laptop), total of 3 is still not standard unfortunately.
I use the laptop as a 2nd workstation with a display, but it's a nuisance having to plug and unplug 5 cords every time (power, usb, video adapter), and would be nice to just have that 2nd home workstation permanent. I can see why you like Mac minis, I've never owned one. But I now have the 7yr old 27" which I may sell... but for today is the 2nd workstation! I could put $250 into it, new SSD, Ram... but not sure... may just wait for the laptop to come back and continue with that.
keys, I also use Office 2011 on both of my machines, and it easily suits my needs. BTW, do you have the latest version of Office 2011, V14.6.3? In case you don't, you can get it from here:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=51771
Thanks Hone,
I have 14.6.2, I don't manually update, I get some alerts every blue moon and update.
The issue is this:
What if you want to use excel/ word on two home workstations and on two mobile workstations, a air and macbook pro total 4?
I dont' have that now, but later..?
Let me clarify. Each version of Office/Word/Photoshop/CS has its own license. It its the installed licenses for a given MAC (Mandatory Access Control) address that count — not the number of unique copies of the software. However, Adobe and Microsoft both have to certify the copy at that MAC address before it will run.
If I were in your situation I would install the necessary software and licenses on the two workstations and then — as you initially proposed — running the applications remotely from either a laptop of 12" iPad Pro. It is not a perfect solution because of the smaller laptop or iPad screen and screen scaling and is really satisfactory only when your LAN connection is reliably delivering 10 Mbps bandwidth or preferably better.
From your description of the bandwidth you are getting that may entail running an ethernet connection from your router to an Airport Express or other WiFi network originating device on the other floor. That should be well within the capability of most home DIYers.
Ah Joe, I went to direct Ethernet for the house, no more wifi anymore in the house for me.
Desktops and laptops are considered computers right, so the limit I think is a total of 2 for those...? microsoft/adobe.
and then after that maybe you could add on mobile.... ipads...
Adobe and Microsoft count mobile devices the same as computers for license purposes. So if you had a license for Adobe CS installed on two computers in order to install CS on a mobile device you would have to...
- uninstall CS on one of the computers or
- purchase a second Adobe CS license NOTE an installations of a previous version of the Adobe Creative Suite with a different activation code is a different license.
- With Microsoft Office you will find similar restrictions but with lots of variation in the details depending on the specific version of Office.
The only way to tell for sure is to
- Read the license agreement specific to the product(s) involved very carefully, assume the most restrictive interpretation of the agreement, and
- Try it and see if the installer will let you get away with it
Adobe and Microsoft have zero incentive to make it easier, much less cheaper, for you. Cash flow is a primary impetus behind the current movement toward software rental/leasing instead of selling. Even the smaller software developers are beginning to get in on the leasing act. They all have to have some mechanism to generate cash flow in a shrinking computer market — especially when their product has already saturated the existing market as in the case with Adobe CS and Microsoft Office. Besides that there are no competing products with enough/any market clout to keep them
honest.
Nice post Joe! thanks for clarifying. IN addition to replacing the 27" last week, I just put a new SSD into my macbook and today, was not able to use Microsoft. What was humiliating was this 400 number passcode that after entering did not work. I did get a nice Indian guy who got it going for me, he extended the license number. 23 minutes on the phone, coupled with other lost time, killer. Humiliating.
You have a point, a company that is very small, but makes the best estimating software in photography, used to be just one time $75 and maybe an upgrade every 3 years of $50. They just went with cloud version and it's $200 every year or so. I only use it a few times a year, but will do it as they need the support and there are few who want to do that software well.
Conversly I have 3-4 other softwares I use much more that are only about $5 or $10 a year to maintain.
BTW are you or others reading on Mac office 2016 yet? I was going to upgrade but the reviews online or horrid. The tech today said that's because the complainers are not on the most recent version of the OS. And he said it's been out for 6 months.
My personal experience with Office for Mac 2016 matches the worst reviews you may have read. If Office 2011 for the Macintosh is currently filling your needs, then I DO NOT recommend "upgrading" to Office for Mac 2016.
The feature set has been diminished, the user interface has been made more cumbersome, and you are required to get an online Microsoft account in order to use it....painfully unnecessary!
Just my personal opinion.....I tried not to sugar coat it.
Thanks Mac, I did register today, just to be 2011 on my laptop, but I think 2016 there is non subscription version. Still, it's a mess? Just keep 2011 for next 20 years?
Nope, for Office 2016 on the Macintosh you HAVE to get a Microsoft account to register....almost as if it were a disc-based version of Office 365.
Before I we proceed further Mac, for some clarity, you keep stating something aboutneeding a Microsoft account. This is super confusing and meaningless as we get accounts for hundreds of stores and software's.
Are you trying to say that for Office 2016 for Mac, for the first time ever it's now mandatory to have a monthly subscription?
To activate your installation of Office 2016 requires that you sign up for a Microsoft account.....you don't just type in the serial number of your software. The account is then referenced each time you use your Office 2016 modules to ensure the valid licensing.
If you open and use Word, it requires a logon to your new Microsoft account the first time you use it.....and the same process for the first time you use your computer-installed version of Excel 2016.
A totally different process than Office 2011.
Ok, but it's not a big deal right? It's not a monthly subscription. In that past softwares like Adobe have you connect to their website. Maybe it's better in some ways?
But more importantly are you ever going to upgrade Office? You reverted back to 2011 and lost money on the upgrade basically?
I installed 2016 on my wife's computer when her 2011 was disabled by Microsoft after a SSD installation and required re-activation while we were away from the original install package.....she HATES it.
Thanks, I did get the 2011 ok, by calling them, long phone call, but ok now... HOw is OFfice 2016? Lot of bad reviews on it so I'm holding off...
...2011 was disabled by Microsoft after a SSD installation....
Would you please clarify what happened?
I wasn't aware that there was any interaction between Office 2011 and Microsoft that could cause that.
Thanks.
When I migrated my wife's HD to the SSHD, the Office 2011 activation code didn't make the move....having used exactly the same technique on an earlier install under OS X 10.6 and Office 2008, there was no loss of activation.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but that certainly sounds like Microsoft changed things up so that new hardware requires re-activation.....
Maybe I'm mistaken, but that certainly sounds like Microsoft changed things up so that new hardware requires re-activation.....
I
think this is analogous to what
you did: I just migrated to a new MBP, and although I've never migrated my apps before I did this time to see if I'd have to reactivate Excel (the only Office component I use), and I did. (I kept getting "Activation Server Down" messages, so I wound up doing it by phone... Jeez, what a PIA!!! The read-in and read-out were around 50 numbers each.)
Yep, instead of going through the re-activation pain, I went through the "upgrade" pain.....
The re-activation number they gave me (48 characters) can be re-used, but they told me almost as an afterthought, read it quickly, and didn't repeat it, so I'm not even certain that I got it right.
At least I'm still in '11. though!
I have also gone through the Migration process a few times (whether to a new OS, or re-installation of a current one), and I have never had issues with any piece of Office 2011 (I use Outlook, Word, and Excel).
Hmmm... You're saying that your MS Office activation followed you without your re-entering your SN unlike what MM and I experienced?
That's pretty weird!
Anybody else got some experience with the matter to contribute?
Artie, it saw the new computer or SSD drive as a 3rd machine. I did have a 48 digit pin, entered it, and it did not work.
Artie, it saw the new computer or SSD drive as a 3rd machine. I did have a 48 digit pin, entered it, and it did not work.
Microsoft's basic registration code for Office 2011 is 25 characters; in my instance the 48 character number came into play only after the basic code didn't work and I was given a phone link. (My version of Office 2011 is a 1 Mac version.)
My version of Office 2011 is a 1 Mac version.
Wow! That just extremely belatedly but luckily not disastrously registered with me.
Even though my Office 2011 packaging says "1 Mac" on it it doesn't include an uninstaller nor was I challenged when I registered it on my new deuced Mac(hina)...presumably a second machine.
Whew!
Reminds me of when they had a code in the box, that wasn't the license code. It was the code to get the code. You had to create a Live account, login, enter the code, and from THERE it would give you the ACTUAL license code.
aka "we're going to force you to give us your email address if you ever want to install this software".