Is this a 'Vintage' model, in other words, does it have any known issues?

Which particular MBP?

MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012)
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012)
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2012)

13" non retina June 2012 500GB ATA 4 ram Intel graphics 4000. No Model Indentifier listed. Some from that time period had video distortion issues and the other issue I have seen online is a sudden restart. I assume the refurb had one of those issues in the past that was fixed.

Those are general issues that Apple had a repair program for, this model is not listed in particular.

It's for a friend and I don't want to hear about problems.

I have the 15" version of that same computer. Mine is also a refurb; I sprang for the larger screen and a Core i7 rather than a Core i5 processor.

This machine is amazing. It is hands-down the best computer I've ever owned. I maxed out RAM (16 GB) and put in a second hard drive (by removing the DVD drive), and it's become my workhorse. It goes everywhere with me, and it's absolutely a fantastic computer. I recommend the 2012 Macbook Pros without hesitation.

Thanks, Tacit. I don't want my friend to be unhappy

Anything newer than mine (2011) would be preferred. Mine was the very last model sold without USB3.

Tho due to a fold in the space-time continuum, it's still got about a month of Applecare left... which paid me back well over the last month with a new logic board, new battery, and two new fans.

What happened? The fans, logic board? Did the 2011 turn into yet another flamethrower? I assume the repair program began before Applecare ran out. Does your issue effect the 2012?

I'm pretty tolerant of minor problems, but when I'm 30 days from leaving warranty, I tend to get a bit more fussy. In this case, both fans had been grumbling for months, but neither had stopped or really slowed down much. A couple months ago I found my battery was suddenly powering down my computer when run on battery for over an hour and its state in ASP had changed to "service battery". (with a cycle count well under 300) But the final straw was that last week where my computer started hard-freezing. It quickly got to the point of not being able to boot up, so it went into the shop for a laundry list. So I just had them do it all at once.

The present 13" MBP is only $300 more. Will it run Snowy? I'm afraid I can't help my friend with support issues if she is running a different system.

The newest Macs (all of them) are incapable of running Snowy. I was a little confused by your question (confusion is my middle name) so I'll answer a possible alternative. The 13" non retina June 2012 MBP originally came with Lion. It won't run anything older than that.

That's actually not 100% on the mark, Jon.

A while back, tacit reported buying (I think it was) an MBP that shipped with either Lion or Mounty but was capable of running Snowy.

It had something to do with the later machine having the same architecture as an earlier one, but how anyone other than tacit would figure out such a thing is beyond me.

But aside from unusual instances such as that, you're more than likely correct in saying that a new current machine will not run Snowy.

Do you really want to force your friend to live in the "dark ages" just because you (and I ) do?

Yosemite has features that are missing, notably or not, as the case may be, from Snowy, and from my limited experience I'll say that if nothing else in Yosemite surpasses its Snowy equivalent, Safari is considerably faster (not to mention current).

fwiw, the newest iMacs will run 10.9.5 fine.

Is 10.9.5 stable and, more importantly, will Adobe Design and Web Premium 4 work? There is no upgrade option and I DO NOT want to pay for usage of the cloud that is now a requirement.

If I buy Adobe CS5 Web Premium 5 from someone else, I know I can have license switched. Adobe no longer offers upgrade to CS5 from cs4.

If I do this, will CS5 work on 10.9 or Yosemite?

Photoshop CS 5 works in Yosemite. It requires Java 6, which is not included in the Yosemite OS (I migrated from Snow Leopard). After I booted into Yosemite, a message appeared that asked if I wanted to download and install Java 6, which I did. PS CS 5 works fine.

I don't know if this applies to Design and Web Premium but I suspect that it does.

This is dumb, but is Yosemite system 10.9? Does Adobe CS 4 work in 10.9?

I'm getting down to the wire here, supposed to pick up refurb 2012 tomorrow 6pm!

Yosemite is OS X 10.10 not 10.9. As far as CS 4 there have been problems with Oracle's Java Runtime Environment. I have not tested this with Adobe CS 4 but I had similar problems with other apps. I solved my issues by installing the Java Developer Kit instead of the Java Runtime Environment. Theoretically both have the same runtime environment, but for whatever reason some applications apparently do not recognize the JRE version but work just fine with the JDK version.

I dunno. Not sure if I really want to 'rock my world' just to match the set up of her new Mac. If the 2012 will run SL, I really just want to do that. The person who is getting it has a Samsung Galaxy, so there are no compatibility issues. She's got an ipad but it's older than mine.

She will be using the iWork Apps, possiblyy Preview, but iPhoto and iWeb. The SL versions are ok, right?

Bought the refurb 2012 MBP. Shipped with Mountain Lion. Will go all the way up to present system. I will probably update my mid-2010 to ML. Any known issues with ML?

Looking at upgrading Adobe CS 4 to CS 5 because it is 64 bit.

Yikes! So, we picked up the computer from the Apple Store last week and it had Lion on it. I told my friend don't do any updates until I get a chance to show her how to pick and choose. I get it back and it has 10.9! She said she didn't upgrade anything. Apple walked me through an Internet system restore over the phone, there was no TM set up for it yet because she wasn't doing anything but browsing and the Internet restore only had Mavericks!!! So Apple 2nd Tier Tech Support is trying to figure out what to do.

The drive is wiped using Disk Utility from OS 10.9, and you can buy and download Lion to a USB stick, but you still need to boot it with Lion. So, we came up with a plan of using an old external and making a bootable installer. I just don't have time and with this back injury and those stupid wooden stools at the Apple Store to bring it back and start over. I guess my question is, what happened? Is Mavericks some type of sneaky thing that you have to lock out? The other thing that was all weird was the keychain access, asking for a password whenever you moved something. (No, I am not saying there is a connection between the keychain access problem and the inexplicable upgrade to Mavericks. That would make the news.)

My first guess was that Software Update was set to auto-install, but in that case, why not Yosemite?


Do you mean that you were asked for an admin p/w to move things?

Maybe a permissions thing; what were you trying to move?

Well, the banner to install Yosemite kept coming up.
Yes, every time I went to just move a folder, it asked for an Admin p/w. But that is all in the past because the disk has been 'nuked.'

"The road to Hell was not paved in a day." I am getting a bad feeling about this.

I dunno what happened, but I suggest that the first thing you do after reinstalling Lion is check Software Update (wherever it lives...System Prefs or App Store) and make sure it's not set to "auto".

And just to clarify, you confused me by mentioning Keychain Access; it doesn't have anything to do with what you experienced.

No, the keychain thing doesn't, it was just a weird, annoying thing. Could not move anything from one folder to another without entering a p/w. I finally started to just unlock folders I was working with. It's probably something she did. But it didn't go away when I ran Disk Utility which should have fixed permissions, right?

The auto update thing doesn't really make sense because when I got it back from her, the indicator that there were updates, the thing I told her not to do, was still at two updates. I think because I don't know what Mavericks looks like, I took the 'Genius's word when we picked it up (I always have all the proprietary Apple tests done before I take a MBP home now) that it was running Lion as I requested and she didn't want to bother downgrading it, or worse, it can't be. Happily, I'm escalated to Tier 2 Support so if this can be fixed, it will. I would just pull the drive, cable it externally and put Lion on it through a clean download, but it would void the AppleCare. I think I'm going to have to go back and find a different Genius. I mean, learning what to do in this case is interesting, but I'm not sure I'm up to it. Spent six hours, no kidding, on phone support today just trying to get a 2010 and a 2012 to be twins. I did learn a whole lot because the techs did spend time with it. Btw, the 2012 has a different SuperDrive that has its own documented issues, but I checked and in 2012 it did not ship with the Matsushita.

It sounds like you needed to repair home folder, not system, permissions, which, in Lion and later, is done from your recovery partition...instructions here.


I don't get it!

According to Mactracker, a 13" June 2012 MBP shipped with OS X 10.7.4 (Lion) and can run the latest release of OS X, so why would Apple give you the refurb with anything other than either Lion or Yosemite? (Mt. Lion was close to a year old when I bought my 2010 Apple refurb [in 2013, from Small Dog], and it came with OS X 10.6.3, with which it originally shipped.)

With that in mind, I can't see why reverting the OS would void AppleCare...nor can I see why you'd need to pull the HDD to do it.

By all means, please keep us posted.

I don't know, it just seems like Apple wants everyone running Mavericks. My computer was constantly asking me to update and it is free; a first.

In response to Artie about the specific technical problem, I only hope that the firmware has not been updated to the point where Lion will not run, which actually may be the underlying issue, in which case the computer has to go back and I don't know how this will be handled if all the refurbished ship this way.

Repairing Permissions with Disk Utility only repairs system and application level permissions.

As additional protection against nefarious activity by malware or hackers, Apple has greatly tightened the requirements for authorizing installation of apps and moving of any folders or files beginning with Mavericks. Get used to it, those constraints will only become more stringent in the future. We all love to brag about our Mac's relative immunity to malware, but as has been noted before, "there aint no free lunch". Part of the cost of that lunch is the requirement to authenticate the change and/or movement of system files and applications.

Then wouldn't running the firmware update with Lion installed have broken it for everybody running it rather than just for fresh installations?


I dunno... I've always assumed that an Apple refurb was delivered as it originally shipped (as my MBP did).

Anything else would be disingenuous, not to mention false advertising, wouldn't it?

And hasn't Apple always wanted everybody to be running its latest version of OS X? Yosemite is free, just like Mavericks, so why not ship it?

I'm getting a sinking feeling. The tech at the Genius Bar when I picked it up assured me it was running lion. They may be shipping everything out with Mavericks, which means nobody can run a lot of their legacy software.

Maybe Yosemite wasn't launched yet when these refurbs first became available. This wasn't the only one.

Did Mavericks break any more software than any other OS X upgrade (Lion in particular)?

And I stand with why Mavericks and not Yosemite?

I'm really curious to see how this plays out; Apple's entire refurb business will be cast in an ugly new light if your experience is pervasive and ongoing (Edit:) and nobody knows what they're buying until they get it and find out that it's not what they expected.

I just looked at what I think is your refurb at Refurbished Mac - Apple Certified - Apple Store (U.S.) and saw this, i.e. that the pic on the screen is Yosemite.

Huh?

I'm just upset. I was trying to buy someone a really nice gift. Let's not give up hope yet.

Yes, it was system things, like putting her own pics into the system folder as screen saver pics.


I remember that is something the woman at the Genius Bar said, I was getting the same processor, the same thing as the new 13" MBP, which was $300 more.

Check out my latest edit.

There's no need to do it that way; she could have achieved the same end by putting them in /Users/xxxxx/Pictures...uhhh...if she new how to find it.

How would anyone know who isn't running Yosemite that the image is not just some wallpaper pic of a mountain? All it says on the refurb page I bought it from is all the system goodies you get, not the OS.

She didn't do it, I did. She gave me a bunch of folders on the desktop and after I ran some virus stuff because she was on a PC, I put them in her pictures folder. But they only showed up as a weird box and not a folder when I went to open them up in the screen saver control panel. It was the kind of thing you get when you trash a folder and the system doesn't know it.

(She picked a very long admin password.)

Good question but there are four pictures of pictures of Yosemite National Park sites that are packaged with the OS. But a cursory glance at "About This Mac" would have revealed the OS version number.

Never been to Yosemite. It's not a stop on the Q Train.

I did not take that cursory look. Shoot me. I was more concerned about which hardware tests were being done, checking the screen for pixel problems, looking for cosmetic damage. Let's not panic or jump to conclusions. They could just be using that screen pic for everything. When I worked in the advertising department of well-known NYC seller of audio, video, computers and music, I kept slipping in a shot of the bird to the left on the TV screens. You have pictures.

As long as it wasn't Superbowl Season, no one really paid attention.

Hmmm... Isn't everybody up to date on stuff like that?

And why a pic of an OS X version that has nothing to do with the machine? Some of those refurbs have pics of Mavericks.

My recollection is that Small Dog had my refurb posted with OS X version, but that may have been their own copy, not Apple's.


According to Mactracker, your MBPs dates are June 2012 - Present.

See my post above ^

Many things are called "Super." It's a funny word. Super Bowl, Superdrive, Superman...

OK, but it doesn't address why later Macs than yours have pics of Mavericks while yours has a pic of Yosemite.

Apple is not usually that haphazard.

Copywriter's option?

From Apple Certified Refurbished Products:

Each Apple Certified Refurbished Product:

...includes either the Mac OS originally shipped with the unit or, in some cases, a more recent version...

Not very helpful, but at least it's a confirmation that the presence of a later OS version on the Mac you bought for your friend isn't a manifestation of the Twlight Zone.

I don't think the exact one I bought is up there anymore. I guess if I had been sent to anyone else at the Genius Bar they would have answered that they all ship with Mavericks or higher and then I would have had to make a decision what to do at that time. However, I did d/l a copy of 10.8 that I bought off the website last night (using my computer) and after it is done installing on my USB stick I'll try to start the 2012 up with that so I am certain of my options.

Ought to be a way to target which threats the computer, given how it is used, is vulnerable to. Like, if you have a network firewall, do you still need all the additional lock-downs? If you don't use your computer at Starbucks, for example. I'm sure more sophisticated owners have modified those new features so they are still useful but less intrusive. Maybe options should be an option.

3rd one down? (Refurbished Mac - Apple Certified - Apple Store (U.S.))

Edit: MacBook Pro EFI Firmware Update 2.9 is the firmware update that applied to your MBP; it doesn't preclude Lion, (Edit:) but it may preclude versions earlier than 10.7.4.

Edit: That may be the answer!

It looks like you got Lion 10.7.0 if you purchased it from the Apple Store. (OS X Lion (10.7) - Apple Store (U.S.))

You may have to install 10.7.0 on some partition somewhere, update it to 10.7.4, and then get it onto the new MBP...by cloning it, I guess.

It just booted into 10.8... Will it install?

Judging from the firmware update specs it looks to me like anything from 10.7.4 on up other than 10.8.0 and 10.8.1 will run.

Is 8.1 the latest version of 8?

No. 10.8.5 is the final Mountain Lion version. Find the 10.8.5 Combo Updater HERE.

The firmware specs mandate 10.8.2.

I would think that the d/l from Apple would not need the updates, they would all be included in the installer archive. Maybe not...

Anyway, this is what Apple said was what it shipped with at different times:
10.7.3, 10.7.4, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10.2

It looks like you can just complete the 10.8 updates until they are all there.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202502

Apparently, it is still what they are shipping today as a non-retina 13" MBP.

http://9to5mac.com/community/why-apple-continues-to-sell-the-mid-2012-macbook-pro/

I decided to go with 10.7 for this reason:

http://www.everymac.com/mac-answers/os-x-mountain-lion-faq/os-x-mountain-lion-pros-and-cons.html

Refurbs will ship with at least as good of specs as advertised. They only have that basic selection available on the refurb store, so if they get in a machine to refurb that had a HDD, memory, CPU, or display bump on it, you may come out ahead with a free upgrade.

I've seen people get all of those... additional RAM, larger hard drive, the higher end processor choice, or the higher resolution display, than what they paid for. It's one of the selling points I throw out when people ask me what to get for a computer. "take the money you save buying a refurb, and use it to buy applecare. that will help take away the worry of a refurb, give you a free extended warranty, AND you may get a free bonus if you're lucky".

Cyn, please remove my last post from the closed forum.

I removed all the recent replies from the monitor thread and reopened it, so it's returned to its 2009 state.