This is about having one of those "Oh Crap!!" moments.

I have a multi-page Excel file that I wanted to send attached to an email. Therefore I thought I should Password Protect it.

I made a "Save As" copy under a different name and gave the copy a password. The name was the first letters of the words in a brief sentence plus four digits. The digits were a familiar year, but backwards.

When I tried to open the "Save As", it didn't recognize the password. I tried a couple of different things thinking perhaps I used the zero instead of the letter "O", or some other simple error. Nada.

I thought it'd be easier to start again so I trashed the "Save As" file but, when I went back later, even the original file was password protected. I thought, no problem, I'll just replace from Time Machine. No such luck.

Then I turned on my Super Duper drive and dragged a yesterday copy from it to the main drive. You guessed it, it wanted a password.

I then booted from my Super Duper drive and opened the original on that drive. Same thing.

I've just gone through about 160 variations of the simple sentence and year and am pretty sure I must have run across the password but no response.

So, now I'm wondering. Would Excel have got confused when the original protected file (the "Save As) got trashed?

Does the password get sent backwards through the Time Machine copies or is there a way for me to open an older version without the password?

MS Office 2004, Excel 11.6.2, OSX 10.6.6

ryck

Sheesh! What a story.

I can't help you, but V1 posted an almost identical tale back in the "Old Country," complete with the details of a script he wrote that actually recovered his password; perhaps he'll be able to help you out.

(I think I remember him getting into adjacent keys as well as permutations of the keys he thought he had pressed.)

Yeah...Arthur Conan Doyle has nothing on me.


Possible except that, with the "Confirm Password" process, I'd have to make the same mistake twice. That's more likely with a real typist than a deliberate two-finger-typist like myself. That's why I wonder if I've actually gone through the permutation, and found the original, but the software now doesn't recognize it.

ryck

New Question

So that I don't miss any possibilities, I've been creating my variations on what the password error might be and listing them in another spreadsheet. Being a two-finger-typist I tried to save myself a little 'entry time' by copying and pasting from the Excel cells in the one sheet to the Password entry dialogue box.

Is there a chance that the dialogue box doesn't recognize a pasted password?

ryck

Any chance that cursed PW is in your Keychain?

Good thought. I used the Keychain Access Panel to view my keychain and didn't see anything that said either Excel or Microsoft. I'm not "conversant in Keychain" so I assume that's as much as I can do to check.

I was hopeful your suggestion might solve what seems to to be a real mystery. Why did a copy in my Super Duper clone, made the day prior, want to see the password? The HD containing my SD clone is only turned on weekly (when I make the clone) and is off the rest of the time.

Therefore it was not turned on when I made the password. I'm preparing a note for the SD Support people and will advise.

ryck

I've had several bits of correspondence with Super Duper (and kudos to them for being really prompt with replies) but, so far, I haven't netted anything good.

The bottom line is that I am accessing the file on the Super Duper clone as I should but I am not getting the correct result. That is, I should get a copy that doesn't need the password but it is inexplicably always required.

My backup is the correct type to have a clean copy of the file and SD thought it must be a case of backing up after the change. However, that is not what happened. I very definitely backed up the day before.

So, I am wondering if the problem can be with Excel. In the past I have found that Microsoft tends to "take liberties" and I wonder if they might populate the password in places where it's not wanted - such as the SD clone.

Because it is a clone the Permissions are the same as my main drive:

System - Read and Write
Admin - Read and Write
Everyone - Read Only

Would the System Permission facilitate such an act?

Interestingly, a Get Info for the clone drive has the correct creation date and time (Saturday morning). However, it also says it was modified yesterday (Sunday) at 12:47. It was not modified by me. The only action I took was trying to open the Excel file.

ryck

I was just able to log in to my Chase Bank account with a pasted password, but I remember having been unsuccessful (on some indeterminate website[s]) in the past; I wonder if it depends on the website?

> I used the Keychain Access Panel to view my keychain and didn't see anything that said either Excel or Microsoft. I'm not "conversant in Keychain" so I assume that's as much as I can do to check.

Give you keychain another look, and try to identify each item; you may find the one you're looking for with an unexpected "title."

Edit: In my instance, anyhow, each item in my keychain is readily identifiable in some way or other.

> Interestingly, a Get Info for the clone drive has the correct creation date and time (Saturday morning). However, it also says it was modified yesterday (Sunday) at 12:47. It was not modified by me. The only action I took was trying to open the Excel file.

Is it possible that your SD clone updated automatically when you connected its drive to your Mac?

That's what I'm wondering (i.e. Microsoft taking liberties) and I have asked at Super Duper but not heard yet.

If so, IMHO it borders on evasive. (oops...invasive)

ryck

UPDATE: I've just heard from Super Duper and they're out of ideas.

No luck there. I don't have that many and I checked them all.

ryck

That's not what I meant; I was wondering whether you've got SD configured to update automatically whenever its drive is mounted...nothing to do with Microsoft. (I've got CCC configured to do its thing the sec my flash drive mounts.)

When you set up your password you were probably offered the opportunity to store it in your keychain and declined the offer.

Hello, ryck

This reply may be a false trail for you, but just in case anything in these links might be of help to you:

How to Remove Password Protection from a Microsoft Excel Worksheet File?

Change or remove a workbook password.

I don't think so. SD support knows what kind of a back-up I do and I did ask if Excel could have automatically updated the file. They didn't know how it would do that.

The Preferences don't include any options for automatic updating.

ryck

That's correct. Now there's a tough lesson to learn. But at least I won't forget.

ryck

Thank you, Dianne, for looking around on my behalf. I did see the first page (Dave Taylor) and have now looked at the second. The problem is that each requires me to be able to open the Workbook and view the Preferences.

I can't get that far. I get a small dialogue box that asks for the Password and, when the wrong one is entered, the box just goes away.

I'm beginning to think I'll need some heavy artillery. However, that seems to enter into some grey areas and Tacit has put enough of the Russian Mafia scare into me that I'm very, very wary.

ryck

The down side to storing such a password in your keychain is that it's automatically entered whenever anybody tries to open the protected item, so if others have access to your Mac...

> The Preferences don't include any options for automatic updating.

That surprises me!

So each time you mount your SD drive you've got to set up a new session?

Now, here's a thought... I'll guess that SD maintains a log in /Apps/Utils/Console, same as CCC.

If so, see if it tells you what, if anything, happened "yesterday (Sunday) at 12:47."

Maybe post the entire SD log from the period with which we're dealing and let us see whatever there is to see.

> I've got CCC configured to do its thing the sec my flash drive mounts.

I'll correct myself... I have to click on "Proceed."

It's actually quite easy. I just open Super Duper and am presented with a dialogue box that has the settings I want (update files that have changed). I instruct it to proceed and it does everything including a Shutdown once finished.

ryck

Okay....when I opened Console (new experience) from the SD drive, the left side has a wide variety of possible reports. Some are verrry long. Am I looking for something that is specifically Super Duper? If so, I couldn't find one.

Any hints?

ryck

Hmmm... I just found this, which, among other things, says:
(Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any recent docs dealing with the subject.)

Jon, other SD users... What say you about where SD stores its logs?

Stop the presses! The password has been found. Continuous perseverance on the "...could I have...?" process finally paid off.

Thanks Dianne, Artie and Pendragon for your help and ideas. On the downside I put people through something for a dumb mistake. However, on the upside I learned some good lessons....and sweated off about three pounds.

It still doesn't solve the mystery of how the password got into the Super Duper copy of the file. This weekend, when I'm doing my SD backup, I'll do some experimenting (yes, yes with a file created for the test) and will report.

I'm going back to bed, now that I can sleep again.

ryck

I'm happy to hear that your ordeal has ended happily!

> It still doesn't solve the mystery of how the password got into the Super Duper copy of the file.

Look in your SD log; it ought to give you a clue, if not an answer.

It doesn't seem to. From what I can see the log only contains the actions during the Saturday Backup. Changing the file on that drive may not have involved SD, as it's just a drive identical to the main drive.

I assume the information would then be in the Console you mentioned, although I'm not too sure where to look.

At any rate, the plot thickens.....see my new thread "Is Excel A Polluter?"

ryck

> "I learned some good lessons"

One final lesson, in case it hasn't already occurred to you... Next time you password-protect something, do it to a copy, and then trash the original after you've tested the password you think you chose.

Actually, that's one of the things that make me wonder about the liberties that Microsoft seems to take. I had made a copy, using a different name, and entered the password on it. I trashed that copy. I had not touched the original.

However, when I tried to open the original, it wanted the password.

This MS behaviour is very much like the days before Macs came along. In those days the software decided what you wanted or should have.

ryck

I'll tell you what, ryck... Your story deserves to reach a wider audience than it's reaching at FTM; its implications approach sinister are staggering.

Edit: I just realized that you've just repeated your initial post; sorry for making you type.

I thought so too but it seems easier said than done. I tried to advise Apple but couldn't figure out how I'd get my experience to someone on the Time Machine side of the house.

ryck

I wonder whether it's even within Apple's scope of control?

Seems like Microsoft is the real culprit and that it's their issue to deal with.

Sorry to say my issue that time was filevault. But yes, it requires the same thing twice. And I somehow managed to miskey one stroke twice.

I wrote a script of sorts that took the password, (passphrase, it's quite long!) and tried a large number of single mistake variations... any single character inserted, any character omitted. Turned out to be an adjacent keystroke.

There are companies whose entire product is an excel password breaker. Yes, companieS. So you can get your password back for a fee. Their methods are usually guaranteed. So for $29 or whatever the going rate is, you can buy a solution.

I was able to interface directly with diskutil or something from shell. With excel you may be able to interface with applescript, or you can also consider other applications such as Numbers or NeoOffice that may be able to open password-protected excel documents and that are more easily scriptable. If your password isn't too long, brute force is probably a very realistic approach.

When I close to thinking I might not have a choice, I checked out a few of these companies. It seems they all deal with Excel c/w Windows. I couldn't find one that would deal with Mac. There was one company who looked like they could do if you submitted the file on-line.

That's when the Tacit-Russian-Mob-heebie-jeebies set in and I thought: "Maybe I'll just keep trying."

ryck

> Russian-Mob-heebie-jeebies

(???)

What's in that spreadsheet?

Now, what kind of a spy would I be if I told?

Drat, now I gave away my cover and have to take the cyanide pill. I knew this wouldn't end well.

Okay, okay....over dramatic. It was just a worry about connecting with a place that might want to be popping something on my drive while they're searching the file for a password. One says they do the job in three minutes so I figured they'd do it while connected.

ryck

> Drat, now I gave away my cover and have to take the cyanide pill.

You don't take a cyanide pill; you simply grind down on the back molar on the lower right.

> One says they do the job in three minutes so I figured they'd do it while connected.

I'm with you on avoiding that; the only people to whom I give on-line access to my deuced Mac(hina) are Verizon techs.

the file itself should be the same format mac or pc. the cracking apps may be mostly windows though. just find a poor friend with windows.