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Posted By: plantsower Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 01:26 AM
OK, so I called Applecare for my email problems. They pretty quickly went right to erase HD and redownload the OS. I didn't want to but they had no other answers.

So, we erased the HD and now I cannot connect to the internet to get to recovery. When I had to do this with my older MBP, I could do recovery after connecting to Ethernet. Of course, the MBP I have now doesn't have that port and I don't have that adapter.

I am wondering if I can connect my two computers to an HDMI cable (I would connect the HDMI to my new MBP and a thunderbolt HDMI adapter to the HDMI cable and then to my old MBP.) Then I would connect the old MBP to Ethernet.

Will this get me to the internet so I can get to recovery mode?

I can't believe all the problems I am having lately since I got my newer MBP.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 01:42 AM
AppleCare got you into this mess, so why don't you call them back and graciously allow them get you out of it? I can't believe they actually hung up on you without your Sierra d/l having begun. mad

(I know only a little about HDMI, but I'm pretty sure that what you propose to do won't work...not the right functionality.)

More: Have you tried resetting your router?
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 01:51 AM
I just found this so I guess I won't do that. Do not do this

If you're lucky, nothing will happen.

If you're unlucky, one or both laptops will short circuit, because an hdmi transmitter sends a 5V power signal. by plugging two transmitters into each other, you send +5V from both sides, which can damage one or both computers, if they aren't designed with protection circuitry.


Applecare didn't hang up on me. He promised to call me back because he needed to do some research. Now I have no OS in my computer. The only thing I can think to do is to get an ethernet adapter and do it that way. This is all b/c they took our ethernet ports away and OS CDs away and now everything is a big deal. Otherwise I have to make an hour trip to a genius bar or some authorized repair service. frown

I was told the mail probably was buggy because I downloaded the update from the App store, but if I did it through recovery there wouldn't be a bug! What? A bug from the App store?

What version do you have? It it's not Sierra or not the latest, count yourself lucky.


Originally Posted By: artie505
AppleCare got you into this mess, so why don't you call them back and graciously allow them get you out of it? I can't believe they actually hung up on you without your Sierra d/l having begun. mad

(I know only a little about HDMI, but I'm pretty sure that what you propose to do won't work...not the right functionality.)
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 02:16 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I just found this so I guess I won't do that. Do not do this

If you're lucky, nothing will happen.

If you're unlucky, one or both laptops will short circuit, because an hdmi transmitter sends a 5V power signal. by plugging two transmitters into each other, you send +5V from both sides, which can damage one or both computers, if they aren't designed with protection circuitry.


Applecare didn't hang up on me. He promised to call me back because he needed to do some research.

I was told the mail probably was buggy because I downloaded the update from the App store, but if I did it through recovery there wouldn't be a bug! What? A bug from the App store?

What version do you have? It it's not Sierra or not the latest, count yourself lucky.

I was pretty sure that your HDMI idea wouldn't work because of functionality, but I should have thought of the power issue, too. frown Glad you didn't try it!

If AppleCare didn't call you back, get on their case...big time! Customer Service is Apple's thing.

I'm extremely skeptical about "buggy"; it sounds like what I get from Manilla when they've got no idea what the question, let alone the answer, is.

I'm running Sierra 10.12.5, and the assorted annoying, minor issues I'm working with are enough to have made me unhappy with it.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 02:35 AM
The guy did call me back but he put me on hold for a long time so I hung up. He called back but I was cooking dinner and couldn't talk. He mentioned things like resetting PRAM, turning off wi-fi and then back on, and resetting power. None of this is going to help if I can't connect to the internet and also my OS is gone. So, tomorrow I am going to see if I can find an ethernet adapter or just a very long ethernet cable in town. If not, I will get one off Amazon and wait for it. If that doesn't do the trick, I will have to make an appt. at a "genius" bar.

I looked for locations near me from the Apple website and not one city I put in showed up, even the cities with genius bars that I already know about!!

You have the same OS version I have. You have annoyances but not mail ones like I have??


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I just found this so I guess I won't do that. Do not do this

If you're lucky, nothing will happen.

If you're unlucky, one or both laptops will short circuit, because an hdmi transmitter sends a 5V power signal. by plugging two transmitters into each other, you send +5V from both sides, which can damage one or both computers, if they aren't designed with protection circuitry.


Applecare didn't hang up on me. He promised to call me back because he needed to do some research.

I was told the mail probably was buggy because I downloaded the update from the App store, but if I did it through recovery there wouldn't be a bug! What? A bug from the App store?

What version do you have? It it's not Sierra or not the latest, count yourself lucky.

I was pretty sure that your HDMI idea wouldn't work because of functionality, but I should have thought of the power issue, too. frown Glad you didn't try it!

If AppleCare didn't call you back, get on their case...big time! Customer Service is Apple's thing.

I'm extremely skeptical about "buggy"; it sounds like what I get from Manilla when they've got no idea what the question, let alone the answer, is.

I'm running Sierra 10.12.5, and the assorted annoying, minor issues I'm working with are enough to have made me unhappy with it.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 06:46 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
The guy...mentioned things like resetting PRAM, turning off wi-fi and then back on, and resetting power. None of this is going to help if I can't connect to the internet and also my OS is gone.

I'm not sure exactly what you erased, i.e. whether you've still got a recovery partition, so try this:

First, reset your modem/router...probably by leaving it unplugged for...ahhh...give it 15 minutes. (I know it didn't work for you the last time you tried, but it has worked for me.)

Next, do a command-option-R boot, and hold the keys until the animated globe appears on the screen.

If the globe appears, give it time to do its thing...dunno how long that may be; have a cup of coffee.

If the globe fails to appear or appears but doesn't connect to the internet, proceed to...

Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, tomorrow I am going to see if I can find an ethernet adapter or just a very long ethernet cable in town. If not, I will get one off Amazon and wait for it. If that doesn't do the trick, I will have to make an appt. at a "genius" bar.

I looked for locations near me from the Apple website and not one city I put in showed up, even the cities with genius bars that I already know about!!

You have the same OS version I have. You have annoyances but not mail ones like I have??

You can't just move your MBP instead of buying a new cable?

That's strange about Apple Stores you know are there not being there.

I've got Mail annoyances, but nothing like either you or V1 has described...nothing that's inspired me to do anything more than wait for Apple to get their act straight. tongue
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 03:41 PM
OK, I did what you said. Same result. Globe shows up, there is a drop down box asking me to pick my network but there is no network to pick, it's just 3 dots. After some researching, when the apple guy called me back, and said it meant I could not get connected to the internet for some reason. This happened before with my old MBP a few weeks back and I learned on the forum to connect it to Ethernet and then I could do recovery. It worked. I think Apple Tech needs to know this is a possibility before they blithely ask people to erase their HD.

They had me erase my whole HD so, nothing much left. I wonder why they didn't say to try Disk Utility or PRAM. I don't think that would have worked but maybe. I never think to do PRAM myself.

As far as moving my computer rather than getting a long ethernet cable goes, I was thinking I could connect my computers via Ethernet on my old MBP and some other cable to connect them together and then get my new MBP hooked to the Ethernet that way. That would have meant going into the room where the modem and router are located and there's not much room in there. My idea was to hook up from the ethernet cable there and then go into my office with both computers. Remember, my new MBP has no ethernet port.

So, now I feel my only option is to get an Ethernet adapter and go from there. It should take a few days at least because our local stores don't have any and I would have to drive a half an hour to get to a Walmart. Our local Radio Shack bit the dust. If I didn't have a backup, I would make the drive.

I'd be interested to know if you tried to use their retailer locater if anything showed up from the apple site. If it does, please send me the link to that page.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
The guy...mentioned things like resetting PRAM, turning off wi-fi and then back on, and resetting power. None of this is going to help if I can't connect to the internet and also my OS is gone.

I'm not sure exactly what you erased, i.e. whether you've still got a recovery partition, so try this:

First, reset your modem/router...probably by leaving it unplugged for...ahhh...give it 15 minutes. (I know it didn't work for you the last time you tried, but it has worked for me.)

Next, do a command-option-R boot, and hold the keys until the animated globe appears on the screen.

If the globe appears, give it time to do its thing...dunno how long that may be; have a cup of coffee.

If the globe fails to appear or appears but doesn't connect to the internet, proceed to...

Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, tomorrow I am going to see if I can find an ethernet adapter or just a very long ethernet cable in town. If not, I will get one off Amazon and wait for it. If that doesn't do the trick, I will have to make an appt. at a "genius" bar.

I looked for locations near me from the Apple website and not one city I put in showed up, even the cities with genius bars that I already know about!!

You have the same OS version I have. You have annoyances but not mail ones like I have??

You can't just move your MBP instead of buying a new cable?

That's strange about Apple Stores you know are there not being there.

I've got Mail annoyances, but nothing like either you or V1 has described...nothing that's inspired me to do anything more than wait for Apple to get their act straight. tongue
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 03:48 PM
Does this help?

Store List - Apple Store
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/01/17 04:52 PM
Yes, thanks. I also found that page after I couldn't find any stores when I typed them into their store locator. I can't find a way to tell them except thru their feedback form and maybe when I talk to Applecare again.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Does this help?

Store List - Apple Store
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 05:23 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, I did what you said. Same result. Globe shows up, there is a drop down box asking me to pick my network but there is no network to pick, it's just 3 dots. After some researching, when the apple guy called me back, and said it meant I could not get connected to the internet for some reason.

...moving my computer...would have meant going into the room where the modem and router are located....

Quoting joemike, ":light bulb:"

This probably should have been obvious all along, but your "3 dots" slapped me across the face with a dead flounder, and I wonder if your inability to connect to the internet for recovery has been because your MBPs have been out of range of your router? (My AirPort menu bar drop-down doesn't always show the same list of networks that my /Apps/System Prefs > Network > Network Name drop-down shows, and that makes me wonder about the robustness of the utility that's accessed during recovery. More: Thinking about it, I remember having been surprised by how few network options I was offered when I booted into recovery recently, and my MBP is less than three feet from my AirPort Express Base Station.)

Dead easy experiment: Move your MBP as close to your router as you can conveniently get it, try the command-option-R boot again, and see if you maybe get lucky.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
They had me erase my whole HD so, nothing much left. I wonder why they didn't say to try Disk Utility or PRAM. I don't think that would have worked but maybe. I never think to do PRAM myself.

Our local Radio Shack bit the dust.

It doesn't sound like you spoke to the brightest star at AppleCare. I don't know why he didn't have you simply reinstall Sierra over your original installation rather than erase your SSD.

The entire Radio Shack chain closed its doors a few years back; I got to my local store's going out sale after the shelves had been picked pretty much bare, but I still did a little bit of OK. smile
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 05:05 PM
OK, tried it. Put notebook right next to router and modem. The same result.
Can't wait until my ethernet adapter gets here. If that doesn't work, I guess I will have to go to the Apple store far, far away. Well, an hour. smile

Our Radio Shack closed before all the final closings. It's a small town and the owner was a jerk with an attitude. He lost it on his own.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, I did what you said. Same result. Globe shows up, there is a drop down box asking me to pick my network but there is no network to pick, it's just 3 dots. After some researching, when the apple guy called me back, and said it meant I could not get connected to the internet for some reason.

...moving my computer...would have meant going into the room where the modem and router are located....

Quoting joemike, ":light bulb:"

This probably should have been obvious all along, but your "3 dots" slapped me across the face with a dead flounder, and I wonder if your inability to connect to the internet for recovery has been because your MBPs have been out of range of your router? (My AirPort menu bar drop-down doesn't always show the same list of networks that my /Apps/System Prefs > Network > Network Name drop-down shows, and that makes me wonder about the robustness of the utility that's accessed during recovery. More: Thinking about it, I remember having been surprised by how few network options I was offered when I booted into recovery recently, and my MBP is less than three feet from my AirPort Express Base Station.)

Dead easy experiment: Move your MBP as close to your router as you can conveniently get it, try the command-option-R boot again, and see if you maybe get lucky.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
They had me erase my whole HD so, nothing much left. I wonder why they didn't say to try Disk Utility or PRAM. I don't think that would have worked but maybe. I never think to do PRAM myself.

Our local Radio Shack bit the dust.

It doesn't sound like you spoke to the brightest star at AppleCare. I don't know why he didn't have you simply reinstall Sierra over your original installation rather than erase your SSD.

The entire Radio Shack chain closed its doors a few years back; I got to my local store's going out sale after the shelves had been picked pretty much bare, but I still did a little bit of OK. smile
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 05:16 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, tried it. Put notebook right next to router and modem. The same result.

DAMN! frown mad

It just doesn't make sense that the same thing happens with two different MBPs. confused
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 05:28 PM
I know. frown


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, tried it. Put notebook right next to router and modem. The same result.

DAMN! frown mad

It just doesn't make sense that the same thing happens with two different MBPs. confused
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 07:45 PM
PMFJI but the ellipse (…) means there is no available WiFi network to join and therefore you cannot reach the internet. I know it is nitpicking but conflating the two can distract from the actual problem. Not seeing a WiFi network can be caused by...
  1. the list of networks can take a while to populate — some times a good while. Patience really can be a virtue smile
  2. If the only available network is configured to be Silent you would have to click on the Other… prompt and entering the network name and password
  3. A very strong Silent network in the environment might block or delay lower strength networks from displaying
No guarantee any of these are true, but they are possibilities.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/02/17 09:08 PM
I let it try for 30 minutes. Maybe that wasn't long enough.

I tried the network name in the box with the wi-fi sign next to it, and it didn't work so I typed in the router password. Then went to the box beneath that which had a closed padlock next to it but it wouldn't let me type anything in it. No blinking cursor.

As far as the network being too slow, that would be a possibility. I have a microwave setup for my wi-fi because satellite is the only other alternative here and I don't like it. I maybe get 1 mb up and less down through it according to the speed test.

I could type in the
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
PMFJI but the ellipse (…) means there is no available WiFi network to join and therefore you cannot reach the internet. I know it is nitpicking but conflating the two can distract from the actual problem. Not seeing a WiFi network can be caused by...
  1. the list of networks can take a while to populate — some times a good while. Patience really can be a virtue smile
  2. If the only available network is configured to be Silent you would have to click on the Other… prompt and entering the network name and password
  3. A very strong Silent network in the environment might block or delay lower strength networks from displaying
No guarantee any of these are true, but they are possibilities.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 01:10 AM
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
PMFJI but the ellipse (…) means there is no available WiFi network to join and therefore you cannot reach the internet. I know it is nitpicking but conflating the two can distract from the actual problem. Not seeing a WiFi network can be caused by...
  1. the list of networks can take a while to populate — some times a good while. Patience really can be a virtue smile
  2. If the only available network is configured to be Silent you would have to click on the Other… prompt and entering the network name and password
  3. A very strong Silent network in the environment might block or delay lower strength networks from displaying
No guarantee any of these are true, but they are possibilities.

But that begs the question of why are two different MBPs that have absolutely no trouble joining a network and connecting to the internet from their boot volumes unable to even locate a network when booted into recovery mode?

I'm beginning to wonder if we're maybe dealing with some sort of bug here.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:18 AM
Where would that bug be?

When I turn on my new MBP now (I use it to charge my speaker, remember?), I get that flashing question mark. I looked it up online and it said to do Command - R. What's the different between that and Command-Option-R? Anyway, I will do one of those when I get my ethernet adapter.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
PMFJI but the ellipse (…) means there is no available WiFi network to join and therefore you cannot reach the internet. I know it is nitpicking but conflating the two can distract from the actual problem. Not seeing a WiFi network can be caused by...
  1. the list of networks can take a while to populate — some times a good while. Patience really can be a virtue smile
  2. If the only available network is configured to be Silent you would have to click on the Other… prompt and entering the network name and password
  3. A very strong Silent network in the environment might block or delay lower strength networks from displaying
No guarantee any of these are true, but they are possibilities.

But that begs the question of why are two different MBPs that have absolutely no trouble joining a network and connecting to the internet from their boot volumes unable to even locate a network when booted into recovery mode?

I'm beginning to wonder if we're maybe dealing with some sort of bug here.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:34 AM
Does this make any sense? I found it on the internet regarding connecting to wi-fi in recovery mode: You could also resolve it by changing the router setup to hand out addresses via DHCP, but that requires admin access to the router, find the router manual & see how you enable DHCP on it.

The ethernet adaptor will also fail if the router is not giving out addresses on the wired LAN.


I don't really get how to do this, but I wonder if it would work.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
PMFJI but the ellipse (…) means there is no available WiFi network to join and therefore you cannot reach the internet. I know it is nitpicking but conflating the two can distract from the actual problem. Not seeing a WiFi network can be caused by...
  1. the list of networks can take a while to populate — some times a good while. Patience really can be a virtue smile
  2. If the only available network is configured to be Silent you would have to click on the Other… prompt and entering the network name and password
  3. A very strong Silent network in the environment might block or delay lower strength networks from displaying
No guarantee any of these are true, but they are possibilities.

But that begs the question of why are two different MBPs that have absolutely no trouble joining a network and connecting to the internet from their boot volumes unable to even locate a network when booted into recovery mode?

I'm beginning to wonder if we're maybe dealing with some sort of bug here.
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 02:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
When I turn on my new MBP now (I use it to charge my speaker, remember?), I get that flashing question mark.
The flashing question mark is telling you that a bootable volume cannot be found on any drive attached to the computer. You have two options at that point..
  1. Attach an external USB or Thunderbolt or Fireware drive that has a bootable volume installed on it (note it must be for your particular MBP model or a Recovery Drive image) or
  2. You have to boot from the internet recovery drive
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
What's the different between that and Command-Option-R? Anyway, I will do one of those when I get my ethernet adapter.
The similar startup commands are...
  • ⌘R (Command+R) — Boot from the Recovery Drive (this could be a hidden physical volume on your MBP or if that isn't available then from the internet. In either case you need an internet connection to effect reinstallation — preferably a high speed internet connection)
  • ⌥ (Option boot) — Select a startup disk from tho bootable volumes on your MBP (which could include a Recovery Drive)
  • ⌥⌘PR (Option+Command+P+R) — Reset Parameter RAM
  • ⌥⌘R (Option+Command+R) — ❓❓❓
    Not documented in Apple Help although I seem to recall seeing posts recommending this combination to boot from the Recovery Drive back when the Recovery drive was new. It doesn't work, at least not in Sierra and High Sierra
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:09 PM
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
When I turn on my new MBP now (I use it to charge my speaker, remember?), I get that flashing question mark.
The flashing question mark is telling you that a bootable volume cannot be found on any drive attached to the computer. You have two options at that point.
  1. Attach an external USB or Thunderbolt or Fireware drive that has a bootable volume installed on it (note it must be for your particular MBP model or a Recovery Drive image) or
  2. You have to boot from the internet recovery drive

Shouldn't the question mark ultimately resolve to Internet Recovery for Macs with no bootable options?

Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
What's the different between that and Command-Option-R? Anyway, I will do one of those when I get my ethernet adapter.
The similar startup commands are...
  • ⌘R (Command+R) — Boot from the Recovery Drive (this could be a hidden physical volume on your MBP or if that isn't available then from the internet. In either case you need an internet connection to effect reinstallation — preferably a high speed internet connection)
  • ⌥ (Option boot) — Select a startup disk from tho bootable volumes on your MBP (which could include a Recovery Drive)
  • ⌥⌘PR (Option+Command+P+R) — Reset Parameter RAM
  • ⌥⌘R (Option+Command+R) — ❓❓❓
    Not documented in Apple Help although I seem to recall seeing posts recommending this combination to boot from the Recovery Drive back when the Recovery drive was new. It doesn't work, at least not in Sierra and High Sierra

Nope! See How to reinstall macOS - Apple Support
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:21 PM
Originally Posted By: artie505
Shouldn't the question mark ultimately resolve to Internet Recovery for Macs with no bootable options?
I don't know. The situation has never arisen. confused
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:35 PM
Well, the external drive wouldn't be for my particular model because I've never used an external drive on it yet.

I am not sure what you mean by or a Recovery Drive image.






Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
When I turn on my new MBP now (I use it to charge my speaker, remember?), I get that flashing question mark.
The flashing question mark is telling you that a bootable volume cannot be found on any drive attached to the computer. You have two options at that point..
  1. Attach an external USB or Thunderbolt or Fireware drive that has a bootable volume installed on it (note it must be for your particular MBP model or a Recovery Drive image) or
  2. You have to boot from the internet recovery drive
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
What's the different between that and Command-Option-R? Anyway, I will do one of those when I get my ethernet adapter.
The similar startup commands are...
  • ⌘R (Command+R) — Boot from the Recovery Drive (this could be a hidden physical volume on your MBP or if that isn't available then from the internet. In either case you need an internet connection to effect reinstallation — preferably a high speed internet connection)
  • ⌥ (Option boot) — Select a startup disk from tho bootable volumes on your MBP (which could include a Recovery Drive)
  • ⌥⌘PR (Option+Command+P+R) — Reset Parameter RAM
  • ⌥⌘R (Option+Command+R) — ❓❓❓
    Not documented in Apple Help although I seem to recall seeing posts recommending this combination to boot from the Recovery Drive back when the Recovery drive was new. It doesn't work, at least not in Sierra and High Sierra
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 03:37 PM
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: artie505
Shouldn't the question mark ultimately resolve to Internet Recovery for Macs with no bootable options?
I don't know. The situation has never arisen. confused

If you can't start up from macOS Recovery

Newer Mac computers and some older Mac computers automatically try to start up from macOS Recovery over the Internet when unable to start up from the built-in recovery system. When that happens, you see a spinning globe instead of an Apple logo during startup. To manually start up from macOS Recovery over the Internet, hold down Option-Command-R or Shift-Option-Command-R at startup.
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I am not sure what you mean by or a Recovery Drive image.

This is a long answer to a short question, but some background is necessary for this to make sense.

There are utilities, such as TechTool Pro's ProToGo that can create bootable subsets of MacOS so you can run TechTool Pro or other troubleshooting and/or repair utilities from say a thumb drive. As you can imagine this can be a useful troubleshooting tool. The gotcha in this is the bootable subset is created from a particular machine and because the MacOS installer installs a system that is unique to a particular Mac model those ProToGo subsets will only work with Mac of the same model it was created on. For example a ProToGo drive created on my late 2012 Mac Mini will only boot a late 2012 Mac Mini and maybe not even every late 2012 Mac Mini because mine has been relatively heavily modified over the years.

The only bootable image (a.k.a. volume or drive) that will boot every Mac compatible with the particular release of MacOS is the "Recovery Drive". The use of the term image refers to the fact it is like a photograph or other "image" that is the same everywhere it occurs.

One of the ProToGo options is a Recovery Drive.

Did I clarify or obscure?
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 04:50 PM
Yes, you clarified it. I don't completely understand the lingo and the complicated steps but I do get most of it. So, this may be way off base as Artie would say, but does this mean that the external drive I have for my old MBP cannot be used to boot up my new MBP even though it won't have Sierra on it?

After I get this all settled, I want to have an external drive backup for both of my MBP's. I just don't know if I can use the same one for both machines. It is a terabyte though. I'll never use all that space, at least for now.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I am not sure what you mean by or a Recovery Drive image.

This is a long answer to a short question, but some background is necessary for this to make sense.

There are utilities, such as TechTool Pro's ProToGo that can create bootable subsets of MacOS so you can run TechTool Pro or other troubleshooting and/or repair utilities from say a thumb drive. As you can imagine this can be a useful troubleshooting tool. The gotcha in this is the bootable subset is created from a particular machine and because the MacOS installer installs a system that is unique to a particular Mac model those ProToGo subsets will only work with Mac of the same model it was created on. For example a ProToGo drive created on my late 2012 Mac Mini will only boot a late 2012 Mac Mini and maybe not even every late 2012 Mac Mini because mine has been relatively heavily modified over the years.

The only bootable image (a.k.a. volume or drive) that will boot every Mac compatible with the particular release of MacOS is the "Recovery Drive". The use of the term image refers to the fact it is like a photograph or other "image" that is the same everywhere it occurs.

One of the ProToGo options is a Recovery Drive.

Did I clarify or obscure?
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 05:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
Yes, you clarified it. I don't completely understand the lingo and the complicated steps but I do get most of it. So, this may be way off base as Artie would say, but does this mean that the external drive I have for my old MBP cannot be used to boot up my new MBP even though it won't have Sierra on it?
Probably not
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
After I get this all settled, I want to have an external drive backup for both of my MBP's. I just don't know if I can use the same one for both machines. It is a terabyte though. I'll never use all that space, at least for now.
If by "backup" you mean a bootable backup image then you are likely going t need a separate Drive for each machine. If you mean a Time Machine backup or a clone then you could easily get by with one drive. Both Time Machine and CCC will clone to a sparseimage bundle so it is entirely possible to have two or more non-bootable images on the same drive.

Originally Posted By: Ask Different
Sparse bundle disk images appear as a single file but are actually stored as a folder with many files inside. This makes it more efficient to back them up using Time Machine or other backup utilities, as only the changed parts need to be copied. Additionally, sparse bundle disk images work well with the Compact Image… command.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 05:44 PM
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
Yes, you clarified it. I don't completely understand the lingo and the complicated steps but I do get most of it. So, this may be way off base as Artie would say, but does this mean that the external drive I have for my old MBP cannot be used to boot up my new MBP even though it won't have Sierra on it?
Probably not
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
After I get this all settled, I want to have an external drive backup for both of my MBP's. I just don't know if I can use the same one for both machines. It is a terabyte though. I'll never use all that space, at least for now.
If by "backup" you mean a bootable backup image then you are likely going t need a separate Drive for each machine. If you mean a Time Machine backup or a clone then you could easily get by with one drive. Both Time Machine and CCC will clone to a sparseimage bundle so it is entirely possible to have two or more non-bootable images on the same drive.

Originally Posted By: Ask Different
Sparse bundle disk images appear as a single file but are actually stored as a folder with many files inside. This makes it more efficient to back them up using Time Machine or other backup utilities, as only the changed parts need to be copied. Additionally, sparse bundle disk images work well with the Compact Image… command.
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.

I haven't used SuperDuper since the advent of the Recovery Drive but I would assume it can clone to a sparseimage or preferably sparseimage bundle as CCC does and so you could "clone" multiple computers to a single drive. However just as with CCC, a SuperDuper clone to a sparseimage bundle would not be bootable.

A sparseimage bundle is a superset of sparseimage files and a sparseimage file is a variant type of .dmg file. You have to have MacOS running in order to open and read a .dmg/sparseimage/sparseimage bundle therefore you cannot boot from it.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/03/17 08:18 PM
I definitely want a bootable disk. The only reason I am talking to you now is because I had a bootable external HD of my OS for my older MBP. Otherwise I would have really been up a creek.


Originally Posted By: joemikeb
Originally Posted By: Plantsower
I don't know the difference between bootable backup image and cloning, but I use SuperDuper and assume I can use that on both machines with one external drive as with CCC.

I haven't used SuperDuper since the advent of the Recovery Drive but I would assume it can clone to a sparseimage or preferably sparseimage bundle as CCC does and so you could "clone" multiple computers to a single drive. However just as with CCC, a SuperDuper clone to a sparseimage bundle would not be bootable.

A sparseimage bundle is a superset of sparseimage files and a sparseimage file is a variant type of .dmg file. You have to have MacOS running in order to open and read a .dmg/sparseimage/sparseimage bundle therefore you cannot boot from it.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/04/17 06:43 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Does this make any sense? I found it on the internet regarding connecting to wi-fi in recovery mode:

You could also resolve it by changing the router setup to hand out addresses via DHCP, but that requires admin access to the router, find the router manual & see how you enable DHCP on it.

The ethernet adaptor will also fail if the router is not giving out addresses on the wired LAN.

I don't really get how to do this, but I wonder if it would work.

I did some searching and found this post, which sounds like it supports that:

Originally Posted By: Drew Reece
Internet recovery has limitations on the types of wifi network it will connect to if you have an 'open' network it may not show up…
OS X: About OS X Recovery
If you can use a wired ethernet connection if available.

Rebooting the router may not hurt if you have access to that - but it will affect others on the network for a brief period.

It does sound like your router is setup not to hand out DHCP leases - these are responsible for giving the Mac a local IP address. Nowadays this is non-standard networking setup & will make recovery mode fail. One thing you could do is share the internet connection from your friends Mac, but that would require a cable between the two computers. At least then his Mac would run DHCP & give your Mac an IP address to make internet routing work.

This covers how to share an Internet connection assuming you have the required cable & adaptor.
http://osxdaily.com/2012/01/05/enable-internet-sharing-mac-os-x/

You could also resolve it by changing the router setup to hand out addresses via DHCP, but that requires admin access to the router, find the router manual & see how you enable DHCP on it.

The ethernet adaptor will also fail if the router is not giving out addresses on the wired LAN.

But didn't you complete an internet recovery, albeit a failed one, on your old MBP earlier?

I also found Wifi not accessible in Recovery Mode, which proposes a Terminal solution that's completely beyond my experience, although someone else will probably be able to explain it.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/04/17 07:19 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I definitely want a bootable disk. The only reason I am talking to you now is because I had a bootable external HD of my OS for my older MBP. Otherwise I would have really been up a creek.

You can partition your 1TB external drive into as many partitions as you like and use one for a bootable clone of your new MBP, one for a bootable clone of your old MBP, one for Time Machine, and n others for data, reserve, etc.

Before you set it in stone, though, give careful consideration to the sizes of of the various partitions so you don't get caught short down the road.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/04/17 05:07 PM
Yes, it failed. I think that's why I hooked up to my external drive and will try to transfer mavericks back to my MBP once I get this all figured out with my new machine. I do know that when I hooked up to ethernet on my old MBP I had success doing the hardware test which I couldn't do otherwise.

The bottom link you gave me gave me this error: The page you tried was not found. Update: Tried it again and it worked! Whatever...:(

Update: I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.


But didn't you complete an internet recovery, albeit a failed one, on your old MBP earlier?

I also found Wifi not accessible in Recovery Mode, which proposes a Terminal solution that's completely beyond my experience, although someone else will probably be able to explain it. [/quote]
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/06/17 07:10 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.

Before I spend time posting instructions, do you really want to give Terminal a shot (It's not terribly complicated.), or, on the other hand, have you got your adapter already?
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/06/17 02:52 PM
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't mind trying to use terminal but I don't know how I would even get to terminal when I can't get anywhere anyway.

Before I spend time posting instructions, do you really want to give Terminal a shot (It's not terribly complicated.), or, on the other hand, have you got your adapter already?
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/06/17 03:38 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/06/17 04:04 PM
Thanks, Artie. I'll let you know what happens.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/07/17 02:49 AM
Went to the Apple Store. I was told I should have been able to get to recovery mode from home and they had no idea why I couldn't. I know you knew that. All new software was downloaded and it's working perfectly. It's even faster than it was before. (Remember how I said it was slower than my old MBP when I first got it?). I just wonder if someone just did a sloppy refurbishing job the first time. I didn't have the latest version of Sierra when I first got it and had to download the update. This time that is what was put on my machine at the Apple Store. The only new update since the new software download today is for Remote Desk Client. I don't even know what that is. Do I need it? If not, I'm letting it be.

After I'm sure things are stable, I will be back for my step-by-step instructions of cloning Mavericks via SuperDuper onto another partition of my external drive before I erase the other one and put it on my old MBP HD.

Then I need to figure out how to use my same external drive for my new machine. I don't want to buy a new one if I don't need to. It has plenty of memory (1 T).




I checked my email behavior and it's working perfectly also.
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I got the adapter and it's working because all the lights work. I guess that a sign it's working anyway. I can't get past the flashing question mark. I have an appt. today to see what can be done. I was surprised I couldn't even get on the internet with the ethernet, but maybe that's how it is when your whole HD is erased

Since Apple stopped shipping install discs, OS X/macOS have been designed, of necessity, to enable us to reinstall even if our drives get trashed and replaced, so I'm really curious to hear what the Genius has to say about why you can't connect to the internet.

I tried the Terminal command, and it worked for me, but I wonder if it would work in your situation.

Got my fingers crossed for you and both of your MBPs .
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/07/17 06:05 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
All new software was downloaded and it's working perfectly. I just wonder if someone just did a sloppy refurbishing job the first time.

I didn't have the latest version of Sierra when I first got it and had to download the update.

The only new update since the new software download today is for Remote Desk Client. I don't even know what that is. Do I need it? If not, I'm letting it be.

After I'm sure things are stable, I will be back for my step-by-step instructions of cloning Mavericks via SuperDuper onto another partition of my external drive before I erase the other one and put it on my old MBP HD.

Then I need to figure out how to use my same external drive for my new machine. I don't want to buy a new one if I don't need to. It has plenty of memory (1 T).

I doubt that the refurbishing job, itself, was at the root of your problems; I'll opt for an unlucky macOS installation.

macOS 10.12.5 was released on May 15th; I guess it wasn't pre-installed on your new MBP because of timing.

You don't need the Apple Remote Desktop update, so you can skip it if you like. (As far as I know, Apple no longer gives us the option to hide unwanted updates, so I install them just to be done with them.)

I thought you'd take your old MBP to the Apple Store and have them reinstall Mavericks for you; didn't it go bad in the process of doing just that in the first place?

I'm not exactly sure what you're proposing to do with your old MBP and external, but when you're up to speed with your new MBP we can deal with them.

Under any circumstances, though, there shouldn't be any need for you to buy a new external drive; your 1 TB should more than suffice.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/07/17 02:30 PM
I didn't take in my old MBP b/c it's no longer covered by AppleCare. Maybe they would have thrown that in for me but I never thought of that. I assumed they would charge me.

As far as what I want to do with the external on my old MBP, you probably forgot our conversation about it though you do seem to have a good memory for past posts. smile. I'll bring it all up again when the time comes b/c I don't want to make a mistake and end up with only one computer again.

By unlucky OS installation, do you mean things can go wrong with a download and need to be redone?


I doubt that the refurbishing job, itself, was at the root of your problems; I'll opt for an unlucky macOS installation.

macOS 10.12.5 was released on May 15th; I guess it wasn't pre-installed on your new MBP because of timing.


I thought you'd take your old MBP to the Apple Store and have them reinstall Mavericks for you; didn't it go bad in the process of doing just that in the first place?

I'm not exactly sure what you're proposing to do with your old MBP and external, but when you're up to speed with your new MBP we can deal with them.

Under any circumstances, though, there shouldn't be any need for you to buy a new external drive; your 1 TB should more than suffice. [/quote]
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/08/17 06:12 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't take in my old MBP b/c it's no longer covered by AppleCare. Maybe they would have thrown that in for me but I never thought of that. I assumed they would charge me.

As far as what I want to do with the external on my old MBP, you probably forgot our conversation about it though you do seem to have a good memory for past posts. smile. I'll bring it all up again when the time comes b/c I don't want to make a mistake and end up with only one computer again.

By unlucky OS installation, do you mean things can go wrong with a download and need to be redone?

Oops!!! You missed my "I've got my fingers crossed for both of your MBPs."

Specific instance: Apple discontinued install discs secure in the knowledge that everybody in the entire world has access to high-speed internet, but just on the very outside chance that there might be a handful of people in some obscure corner who haven't got it, they provided these helpful options:
  • imposing on a friend,
  • imposing on your boss,
  • imposing on a neighbor,
  • imposing on a relative,
  • aaand just in case none of those options is viable, bringing your Mac to an Apple Store.
And the bottom line of all that is since you couldn't connect to the internet they'd have installed an OS on your old MBP at no charge.

In general: From all accounts, the Geniuses are very accommodating (They've given me two new batteries for out-of-warrantee Macs.), and assuming that they WON'T do something can be a BAD mistake. Give them a chance; you can always say no if they want to charge you more than you're willing to spend.

As for your old MBP, yeah, I remember what you want to do, but I'm still wondering why you want to perpetuate an old OS rather than keep it up to speed.

Things absolutely can go wrong with an OS installation, particularly a d/l, and it's most likely that your problems with your new MBP resulted from a bad install, as your current problem with your old MBP certainly did.

And also as for your old MBP, I realized that we've been obsessing with getting into it through the back door and have overlooked the fact that there may be a front door, so here you go:
  1. Boot your MBP from your external.
  2. Navigate to the App Store.
  3. Click on the "Purchased" tab.
  4. Enter your Apple ID and password.
If you're lucky, Mavericks will be listed with an appended "Download" button, and since you'll already be connected to the internet you'll be able to download it, select "Macintosh Hard Drive" (or whatever it's called on your old MBP) as your destination volume, and install it with no problems.

If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

More: I'd erase the second line, your boot volume, rather than the top line, your entire HDD.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/08/17 03:31 PM
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

A Mac tech once told me on the phone that I could call after AppleCare expired and still get free help, depending on the tech I got. I didn't have the nerve to do that considering everything I need help for takes a lot of time.

The customer I sat next to when at the Apple Store did experience that, though. he had a problem and had come in two weeks in a row. The tech told him they figured out it was the power cord and they would give it to him for free! Nice.

When going over your steps to install a new OS I got a little confused.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

1. I understand that I attach my external hard drive (already attached).
2. Go to App Store and blah blah blah and get to the OX I want.
3. Download the OS to my internal hard drive
The part that confused me was
If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Do you mean download the OS but don't install it until I know it's completely downloaded? I still won't know if I got lucky and it was a good d/l. Plus when I d/l the new OS don't I have to pick where I want it to download first. If so, erasing the HD afterward erases the OS. I know I'm missing something.

Then I erase the Mac HD and THEN install the new OS?

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different. But if I install Sierra then it WILL look like the one your are describing I am assuming.




Oops!!! You missed my "I've got my fingers crossed for both of your MBPs."

Specific instance: Apple discontinued install discs secure in the knowledge that everybody in the entire world has access to high-speed internet, but just on the very outside chance that there might be a handful of people in some obscure corner who haven't got it, they provided these helpful options:
  • imposing on a friend,
  • imposing on your boss,
  • imposing on a neighbor,
  • imposing on a relative,
  • aaand just in case none of those options is viable, bringing your Mac to an Apple Store.
And the bottom line of all that is since you couldn't connect to the internet they'd have installed an OS on your old MBP at no charge.

In general: From all accounts, the Geniuses are very accommodating (They've given me two new batteries for out-of-warrantee Macs.), and assuming that they WON'T do something can be a BAD mistake. Give them a chance; you can always say no if they want to charge you more than you're willing to spend.

As for your old MBP, yeah, I remember what you want to do, but I'm still wondering why you want to perpetuate an old OS rather than keep it up to speed.

Things absolutely can go wrong with an OS installation, particularly a d/l, and it's most likely that your problems with your new MBP resulted from a bad install, as your current problem with your old MBP certainly did.

And also as for your old MBP, I realized that we've been obsessing with getting into it through the back door and have overlooked the fact that there may be a front door, so here you go:
  1. Boot your MBP from your external.
  2. Navigate to the App Store.
  3. Click on the "Purchased" tab.
  4. Enter your Apple ID and password.
If you're lucky, Mavericks will be listed with an appended "Download" button, and since you'll already be connected to the internet you'll be able to download it, select "Macintosh Hard Drive" (or whatever it's called on your old MBP) as your destination volume, and install it with no problems.

If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

More: I'd erase the second line, your boot volume, rather than the top line, your entire HDD. [/quote]
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

The part that confused me was If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different.

My bad for not being specific; I assumed that you'd bring your old MBP to the Apple Store on a lark, if nothing else, since you were going anyhow.

By "If you do get lucky...." I meant if you find Mavericks in your "Purchased" tab, because it's not necessarily there. (You've mentioned Mavericks so many times that I thought you wanted to stick with it.)

Sierra is available (free) from the App Store, so log in, d/l it, and choose to install it your old MBP's HDD. (It will d/l to your your boot volume, i.e. your external HDD, and Installer will offer you all connected volumes including your old MBP's HDD as installation options.)

You should erase your old MBP's HDD before you before you install, but I"m confused about what you're seeing in Disk Utility, so please post a screenshot.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 04:22 AM
Disk utility in Mavericks looks a whole lot different than in Sierra, that's all.

So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't miss your crossing fingers statement, I misinterpreted it. I don't remember you saying I should bring it to the Apple Store so I thought you meant you hoped that what I did to reinstall Mavericks onto my hard drive worked.

First, I am not married to Mavericks. So, if there is another version or even Sierra available, I will download that.

The part that confused me was If you do get lucky, I suggest that you launch /Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility and erase your old MBP's HDD before you install the new OS.

Also, this line didn't show the image. But, in Mavericks there is no second line. The Disk Utility looks very different.

My bad for not being specific; I assumed that you'd bring your old MBP to the Apple Store on a lark, if nothing else, since you were going anyhow.

By "If you do get lucky...." I meant if you find Mavericks in your "Purchased" tab, because it's not necessarily there. (You've mentioned Mavericks so many times that I thought you wanted to stick with it.)

Sierra is available (free) from the App Store, so log in, d/l it, and choose to install it your old MBP's HDD. (It will d/l to your your boot volume, i.e. your external HDD, and Installer will offer you all connected volumes including your old MBP's HDD as installation options.)

You should erase your old MBP's HDD before you before you install, but I'm confused about what you're seeing in Disk Utility, so please post a screenshot.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 05:15 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

You can always get to the internet...even if you erase your entire drive or replace it; it's part of the apparatus Apple has provided in lieu of install discs. If the boot process can't find a volume to boot into it defaults to the internet. Your problem was that your MBPs were unable to join a network, which had nothing to do with what was or wasn't on their drives.

Thinking about it, it doesn't matter if you erase your entire drive or just your boot volume; a complete erasure will take your recovery partition with it, but you'll get a new one along with whichever OS you d/l.

You ought to give some thought to what you want on your external, i.e. how many partitions you'll need and how big each one should be, so you won't get caught short down the road. Once you set your scheme, changing it isn't easy and may even be impossible without erasing your entire drive. You've got a golden opportunity to start from scratch without losing any data; I suggest that you take advantage of it.

As for keeping Mavericks, you've complained about the state of your current installation, so if you really want it, why not erase it after you get all your data off of it, and then install a fresh d/l from the App Store?

The App Store doesn't offer interim upgrades because Apple wants everyone to be current; that's part of why there's a thriving market for installers on eBay.

More: If you d/l Sierra, log in to the App Store first, so it gets to your "Purchased" tab (not that I had any luck).
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 03:19 PM
Sorry, but I am so skittish about erasing anything until I get what I want on my external and internal drives and I just don't want to do it. It was going to Disk Utility and erasing my HD the first time that caused me a problem. I just can't. Perhaps if I had an Apple Store close by I might take a chance but....I don't.

I really dislike dealing with d/l of OS's. It's been so long since I partitioned my external drive and put something on it that I can't remember how. I think I just want Sierra on it and Sierra on my internal drive for now.

I looked under "Purchased" again and there is Mt. Lion and Mavericks but Sierra isn't there. I can only find it on the App Store.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
So, when you say erase the HDD you mean my boot volume only, right? Because if I erase the HDD, I'm in the same pickle I was before with no way to get to the internet.

I don't particularly want to erase my external drive, just maybe get Lion and Mt. Lion off. Keep Mavericks on just I case.

I looked under Purchased Items in the App Store and Mavericks is still there. I may or may not download that. I didn't realize I couldn't get Yosemite or El Capitan unless I had it before. That's weird to me.

You can always get to the internet...even if you erase your entire drive or replace it; it's part of the apparatus Apple has provided in lieu of install discs. If the boot process can't find a volume to boot into it defaults to the internet. Your problem was that your MBPs were unable to join a network, which had nothing to do with what was or wasn't on their drives.

Thinking about it, it doesn't matter if you erase your entire drive or just your boot volume; a complete erasure will take your recovery partition with it, but you'll get a new one along with whichever OS you d/l.

You ought to give some thought to what you want on your external, i.e. how many partitions you'll need and how big each one should be, so you won't get caught short down the road. Once you set your scheme, changing it isn't easy and may even be impossible without erasing your entire drive. You've got a golden opportunity to start from scratch without losing any data; I suggest that you take advantage of it.

As for keeping Mavericks, you've complained about the state of your current installation, so if you really want it, why not erase it after you get all your data off of it, and then install a fresh d/l from the App Store?

The App Store doesn't offer interim upgrades because Apple wants everyone to be current; that's part of why there's a thriving market for installers on eBay.

More: If you d/l Sierra, log in to the App Store first, so it gets to your "Purchased" tab (not that I had any luck).
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 04:00 PM
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 05:09 PM
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 05:13 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/09/17 05:37 PM
I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. I named my Computer, etc. but I probably couldn't have remembered the password to it anyway. I always have to look it up and I didn't bring it with me. So, probably not.


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 12:16 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Originally Posted By: artie505
You won't find Sierra in your "Purchased" tab until after you've d/l'ed it; just having it on your new MBP doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
Well, they downloaded it at the Apple Store. I guess that doesn't count.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Did they log you into the App Store before they did the d/l?

Originally Posted By: plantsower
I can't remember for sure, but I don't think so. I named my Computer, etc. but I probably couldn't have remembered the password to it anyway. I always have to look it up and I didn't bring it with me. So, probably not.

Having given it some thought, you couldn't have been logged in to the App Store, because your MBP wasn't booted into a bootable volume when they did the d/l.

Putting some pieces together, I come up with an OS upgrade not appearing in your "Purchased" tab unless you d/l it not just while you're logged in to the App Store, but when it's offered to you as a d/l BY the App Store, as well (which explains Sierra's not appearing in my tab).

And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 03:35 AM
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it. [/quote]
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 05:42 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


Originally Posted By: artie
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.

Don't sell yourself short! You're doing pretty good with this "stuff", but since you're not dealing with it constantly it's not fresh in your mind, so it's daunting, not to mention that I imagine that you're still in shock over what you've just been through with not just one computer, but THREE of them.

The Geniuses have access to diagnostic tools and other resources that we mere mortals don't even know exist until we see them in use. (I'll bet it didn't take hir very long to install Sierra on your MBP.)

In theory, your Sierra d/l should successfully overwrite whatever's on your old MBP's HDD and leave it with a functional installation.

GOOD LUCK! smile

More: Since you'll be initiating your Sierra d/l from a Mavericks volume, I think it will be offered to you in your "Purchased" tab, and if it is, click on the offer, and it should remain in the tab for future d/l.
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 12:53 PM
Originally Posted By: artie505
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.
Apple Stores have their own in house servers with a variety of OS and iOS updates and upgrades as well as proprietary diagnostics. If you want to see a Genius panic, be in the store when that server crashes.

🙀

Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 03:44 PM
LOL!!!



If you want to see a Genius panic, be in the store when that server crashes.
<p style="font-size:48px;">🙀</p> [/quote]
Posted By: Virtual1 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 05:24 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, so I called Applecare for my email problems. They pretty quickly went right to erase HD and redownload the OS. I didn't want to but they had no other answers.

So, we erased the HD and now I cannot connect to the internet to get to recovery. When I had to do this with my older MBP, I could do recovery after connecting to Ethernet. Of course, the MBP I have now doesn't have that port and I don't have that adapter.

It was reckless and irresponsible of them to start you down a format without verifying you have the capability to do a restore. That should merit some compensation from Apple to fix your problem, even if it involves sending a genius out to your house. (my opinion)

It's unfortunate that a lot of people on Applecare's line are so quick to leap to the "nuke and pave" solution. Been there, more than once. Very few of them have the necessary skills to troubleshoot and fix anything much out of the ordinary.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 05:36 PM
Right. And I learned a lesson. My gut told me not to do it but then my lack of knowledge told me to do what they say b/c they know best. That won't happen gain! It ain't just the tech, it was also the "senior advisor" who went that route.

Seeing as how I live a good hour away from the Genius Bar, they would never send someone out. Kind of like doctors, no more house calls. frown



Originally Posted By: Virtual1
Originally Posted By: plantsower
OK, so I called Applecare for my email problems. They pretty quickly went right to erase HD and redownload the OS. I didn't want to but they had no other answers.

So, we erased the HD and now I cannot connect to the internet to get to recovery. When I had to do this with my older MBP, I could do recovery after connecting to Ethernet. Of course, the MBP I have now doesn't have that port and I don't have that adapter.

It was reckless and irresponsible of them to start you down a format without verifying you have the capability to do a restore. That should merit some compensation from Apple to fix your problem, even if it involves sending a genius out to your house. (my opinion)

It's unfortunate that a lot of people on Applecare's line are so quick to leap to the "nuke and pave" solution. Been there, more than once. Very few of them have the necessary skills to troubleshoot and fix anything much out of the ordinary.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 07:55 PM
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I didn't know that was possible. Of course, I don't know a lot of things about computers. Stuff that's easy for you and others just throws me off like using my external drive. I don't understand all the ins and outs so I am at a standstill.

I am going to try to download Sierra to my old MBP and see what happens.


Originally Posted By: artie
And at any rate, I'll bet that they didn't d/l from the App Store, but from some proprietary source that doesn't even interact with it.

Don't sell yourself short! You're doing pretty good with this "stuff", but since you're not dealing with it constantly it's not fresh in your mind, so it's daunting, not to mention that I imagine that you're still in shock over what you've just been through with not just one computer, but THREE of them.

The Geniuses have access to diagnostic tools and other resources that we mere mortals don't even know exist until we see them in use. (I'll bet it didn't take hir very long to install Sierra on your MBP.)

In theory, your Sierra d/l should successfully overwrite whatever's on your old MBP's HDD and leave it with a functional installation.

GOOD LUCK! smile

More: Since you'll be initiating your Sierra d/l from a Mavericks volume, I think it will be offered to you in your "Purchased" tab, and if it is, click on the offer, and it should remain in the tab for future d/l.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

It can only be on your boot volume, i.e. your external; take a look in /Library/Updates.

Don't worry about where it is, though, because when the d/l completes it will automatically open Installer. (If you either click and hold or control-click[?] on the d/l's Dock icon I think you'll be able to see where it's going.)
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 08:31 PM
Clicking on it either way does nothing. The first time I control clicked it awhile back it made it pause. I then control clicked again and it resumed. But this time nothing happens. I thought this was going to be the way I got it onto my internal drive. I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I'm in the process of downloading Sierra to my old MBP. It didn't ask where I wanted it downloaded to, so it could be onto my External Drive or my Internal drive for all I know. Time will tell. A lot of time. Unless there is a place I can look to see where it is downloading to during the download. It's not showing up under the download folder for now. I can see the progress bar on the dock but that's about it.

It can only be on your boot volume, i.e. your external; take a look in /Library/Updates.

Don't worry about where it is, though, because when the d/l completes it will automatically open Installer. (If you either click and hold or control-click[?] on the d/l's Dock icon I think you'll be able to see where it's going.)
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 08:42 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Clicking on it either way does nothing. .... I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

I spaced out about the d/l's correct location; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/10/17 09:01 PM
It's showing in my apps folder. Last time it took about 14 hours to d/l so it will be awhile before I can do anything with it. Probably tomorrow. Whew, glad it's only the installer and I have a choice as to where to put it. I'll relax now, sorta.


I forgot about the d/l's correct location for the moment; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them. [/quote]
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/11/17 05:06 PM
OK, it's done!!! I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

I am only going to use this old one in my office to pay bills, etc., and use the other one to use wherever I want to. So excited!

Thanks for all your time and patient help.


Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?


Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Clicking on it either way does nothing. .... I thought it was going to ask me where I wanted it and I was going to pick my HDD. Darn it, anyway. I don't need it on my external drive.

I spaced out about the d/l's correct location; it should be in your Apps folder.

You're not d/l'ing the OS, only the Sierrainstaller.app (or some-such), and when the d/l completes, Installer will open it automatically and give you your option of which volume you want to install Sierra on, and your MBP's internal HDD should be one of them.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 12:05 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

Thanks for all your time and patient help.

Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?

Whew! That was an ordeal. Thank goodness for the App Store.

Your old MBP probably isn't slow at all, other than by comparison to your new one with its SSD. (Just think how much more quickly your new MBP starts up as compared to your old one.)

joemike recently said "No" to the possibility of a clone of one machine booting the other, so please try, and let us know. (Based on very limited personal experience, I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Command-shift-G works on one MBP but not the other? That's curious. But under any circumstances, I thought /Users/xyz/Library came out of hiding and no longer has to be searched for.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 12:34 AM
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.


Otherwise,
Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I am typing on my old MBP via the HDD!! It's still kinda slow about it but it is working! Now I need to hook up SuperDuper to my new MBP and see if I can back up Sierra there, oh, and here. I think I would only have to get Sierra on it and then use that with both machines I would imagine. What do you think?

Thanks for all your time and patient help.

Update: Ok so I'm complaining again but I just tried to get to the library by going to finder-Option-Go and it doesn't work. It works on my new MBP. Any other way to get to that particular library?

Whew! That was an ordeal. Thank goodness for the App Store.

Your old MBP probably isn't slow at all, other than by comparison to your new one with its SSD. (Just think how much more quickly your new MBP starts up as compared to your old one.)

joemike recently said "No" to the possibility of a clone of one machine booting the other, so please try, and let us know. (Based on very limited personal experience, I'm inclined to agree with him.)

Command-shift-G works on one MBP but not the other? That's curious. But under any circumstances, I thought /Users/xyz/Library came out of hiding and no longer has to be searched for.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 05:05 AM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.

Otherwise,

You also forgot about Finder > Go > Go to Folder..., but as I said, ~/Library should be visible if you navigate to it in Finder; if it's not there, let me know, and I"ll post a Terminal command.

I'll pass on your Super Duper! issue until you've heard from tech support, and if they don't resolve it I'll d/l it and take a look.

But I've realized that whether one clone will work with both MBPs is moot. Since you're going to use your MBPs for different purposes, you'll want a separate, current clone for each one.

"Otherwise,"...what?
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 03:42 PM
I finally got SuperDuper to work. The guy at S/D told me D/U is always changing and pointed me to an article by Apple. Haven't found it yet. But, when I went back to S/D I realized the Apply button wasn't there because my drive was already partitioned from before. That was just for prepping the drive. I was reading instructions for a new drive.

I don't see why I couldn't make a 4th partition and name it MBP 2015 Sierra. I don't want to buy another drive. And I still don't get why I can't use the same partition and same Sierra clone for both Macs. I need an explanation from JoeMike other than, no you can't. I couldn't find his actual post about it.

When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace. That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.



Originally Posted By: artie505
Originally Posted By: plantsower
Uh oh. I was only doing option-G. I tried Command-Shift-G and it worked.How quickly we forget. Ok, me.

Did you read my other post about not being able to get SuperDuper to work? I have an email into S/D. I named my partition (the miscellaneous one) Sierra. Then I am supposed to click on "apply" only there is no "apply" button. This could only happen to me. frown. If I ever get it going, I will let you know how it works with two computers. Otherwise, maybe I can clone my new MBP on a different (another) partition and name it something else containing the word Sierra so I can keep it straight. Maybe best to name if 2015 MBP Sierra so I won't get confused.

Otherwise,

You also forgot about Finder > Go > Go to Folder..., but as I said, ~/Library should be visible if you navigate to it in Finder; if it's not there, let me know, and I"ll post a Terminal command.

I'll pass on your Super Duper! issue until you've heard from tech support, and if they don't resolve it I'll d/l it and take a look.

But I've realized that whether one clone will work with both MBPs is moot. Since you're going to use your MBPs for different purposes, you'll want a separate, current clone for each one.

"Otherwise,"...what?
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 05:55 PM
Originally Posted By: plantsower
I don't see why I couldn't make a 4th partition and name it MBP 2015 Sierra. I don't want to buy another drive. And I still don't get why I can't use the same partition and same Sierra clone for both Macs. I need an explanation from JoeMike other than, no you can't. I couldn't find his actual post about it.

The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace.

Since ⇧⌘G (Shift Command G) is the keyboard command to access the Finder > Go > Go to folder action there should not be any difference between the two. I have no explanation for the difference you are encountering

Originally Posted By: plantsower
...That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.[/color]

What you see in Safari > Preferences > Extensions reflects the contents of a property list (a.k.a. plist, a.k.a. preference) file named Extensions.plist found in ~/Library/Safari/Extensions (/Users/yourid/Library/Safari/Extensions ) along with the actual .safariextz files themselves. That property list file is updated when you install or uninstall an extension using Safari > Preferences > Extensions. If one of those .safariextz files is removed by you or another app without going through Safari > Preferences > Extensions to do so the property list does not get updated and the extension still be listed in Safari > Preferences > Extensions although there is no executable code behind it. To remove the listing you need to "uninstall" the extension in Safari.
Posted By: plantsower Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/12/17 08:11 PM
OK. I"m sure that makes sense to somebody. smile. I did read up on it and it said if you use the same external drive to clone let's say an OS and use that same partition on another machine to update the same OS (like Sierra), it creates a mess. So, nuff said. I will make another partition.

I'm thinking somehow my plist or whatever disappeared and it still shows that extension but it's dead like you intimated. I"m going to leave it on there just I case. smile

Thanks for the explanations.


The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

Originally Posted By: plantsower
When I use Go-Go to Folder I can't bring up my third party plugins/extensions. But when I go to Library with the Shift-Command-Go, I can find them all except for the one that went into cyberspace.

Since ⇧⌘G (Shift Command G) is the keyboard command to access the Finder > Go > Go to folder action there should not be any difference between the two. I have no explanation for the difference you are encountering

Originally Posted By: plantsower
...That one still shows on the extensions in my Safari prefs. I also used EasyFind and found all my extensions except that one. I don't want to spend the rest of my life on it, but I find it odd.[/color]

What you see in Safari > Preferences > Extensions reflects the contents of a property list (a.k.a. plist, a.k.a. preference) file named Extensions.plist found in ~/Library/Safari/Extensions (/Users/yourid/Library/Safari/Extensions ) along with the actual .safariextz files themselves. That property list file is updated when you install or uninstall an extension using Safari > Preferences > Extensions. If one of those .safariextz files is removed by you or another app without going through Safari > Preferences > Extensions to do so the property list does not get updated and the extension still be listed in Safari > Preferences > Extensions although there is no executable code behind it. To remove the listing you need to "uninstall" the extension in Safari. [/quote]
Posted By: Virtual1 Re: Cables, Cables, Cables - 07/13/17 12:43 PM
Originally Posted By: joemikeb
The problem is the installer checks the specific system model and only installs kernel extensions (.kext) and other bits parts and pieces that are specific to that particular machine and none other. Therefore the installed drive image will boot ONLY a Mac of that particular model. Whether that image will boot a a different model Mac is a crap shoot. The Recovery Drive image, on the other hand, is very limited but it can boot any Mac compatible with the particular version of MacOS but about all you can do from there is run Disk Utility, recover your system from a Time Machine or other backup, and install MacOS.

It's been my experience that the installer on the Recovery partition only installs kexts and libraries that are required by the hardware on the machine. The installer on the app store however, is a full installer that supports all of the macs that the version of software supports, to within a few months of the latest release at least. (so if 10.12 has been out for awhile, and apple releases a new iMac, it may take the app store a month or two to get 10.12 updated to support the new computers) But as long as you're not working with bleeding-edge hardware, the latest os installer on the app store will install a "universal os" that will boot on any supported computer.

I work in a very mixed environment, and have to make sure I get a universal install going for the images that I send to the various machines. Having to keep track of and maintain separate images for separate hardware would be a nightmare. As it is I have six specific load outs, and I don't want to have to multiply those by different hardware. So when we get in new computers the first thing I do is back up the factory install and go to the app store and download and run that to see if it will work on the new computer. (it usually does) If it doesn't, then that machine will require a custom image, at least until the App Store gets updated. Then I can download that and refresh my images to that newer OS so I once again have a small set of images that all work on any hardware on campus.
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