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Posted By: RHV Time Outs With Safari - 02/09/14 02:57 AM
Using Safari (7.0.1) ) with Mavericks (10.9.1) on a 2010 iMac.

Go to my investment broker website. Log in. Shift around for a minute or so and then sometimes get a time out. Other times not. With Firefox or Google Chrome, never a time out.

No time outs with Safari on my bank website or other sites.

Wrote the broker website. It recommended the usual things -- reset Safari. and delete the broker website cookies. Did no good. The broker website reported no known problems there with Safari.

I think this all started with my downloading the 10.9.1 version of Mavericks. But not sure of that.

Running from my external drive Disk Utility Repair Disk or Disk Warrior -- on my iMac's HD -- does nothing helpful.

Can always use Firefox. Prefer Safari,

Any solutions from similar past experiences -- or just things to try?

Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/09/14 07:05 AM
The recent "all-purpose culprit" as respects Safari issues has been extensions, although your issue's being intermittent suggests otherwise.

It's an easy enough try, though, to open Safari's pref pane, turn all your extensions off in one shot with the switch, and see what happens.

Good luck.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/09/14 01:54 PM
Thanks. I had no extensions running in Safari.
Posted By: joemikeb Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/09/14 06:52 PM
Safari has always been more scrupulous about honoring various security features/standards in HTML and/or Javascript than other browsers so the difference in Safari and Firefox or Chrome would not be surprising. The fact Safari is not having the problem on other financial web sites would seem to indicate the issue resides in the particular web site. If one had the inclination, some hours spent in close scrutiny of the code from that site might reveal what is triggering the timeout. Personally I would look first at the Javascript used.

If you can find a link to contact the site webmaster you might inform them of the issue. It is highly likely they do not know it exists. Sadly it may be equally likely they do not care and work under the assumption that everyone uses Internet Explorer. (Here it is Sunday, the first day of the week and I have already gotten my weekly Microsoft Internet Exploder grumble off my chest. — What am I to do for the rest of the week? tongue )
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/10/14 04:03 AM
Thanks. I emailed the broker website, as I reported here. Don't know if the webmaster replied or just somebody else set up to handle complaints.

If the problem were Safari's scrupulousness, why can I go for several days with no time outs and then be hit for several days with many time outs. Or is Safari's scrupulousness hit and miss?

What about some other possible remedies? Reinstalling 10.9 and then 10.9.1. Or installing an older version of Safari in 10.9.1. Is the latter possible?

Posted By: dkmarsh Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/11/14 10:33 PM

Safari 7.0.1 is part of the OS X 10.9.1 update, so I doubt you can replace it with an earlier version. If you use Time Machine, I suppose you might try spinning the clock back to 10.9, which would revert your Safari back to 7.0. This would allow you to see if Safari 7.0.1 is indeed the problem.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/12/14 06:46 PM
Thanks. Don't use TM. I've got a bootable clone of my 10.9.1 HD via Carbon Copy Cloner on my external drive. Did the clone, I think, before the time outs problem with Safari manifested itself. Will boot the clone to see if Safari there is problematic or not.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/19/14 02:54 AM
I "think" I've solved it: 51/49 personal probability.

On another forum, I was told to empty Safari Cache in my User Library. One can't do that by merely resetting Safari -- emptying the cache is not (so far as I can see) included under that resetting.

I'm with 10.9.1. Safari in my user Library has no cache file in it!!! Yes .. there is a cache file in my User Library, but it's not restricted to Safari.

Some Googling got me this: Go to Safari prefs. Go to Advanced and click on "Show Develop on the Safari menu bar". Did that. Develop on the Safari menus bar holds lots of goodies (hitherto unknown to me) -- one of which is: Empty the cache. Did that.

So far no time-outs. But good short term results are not worth much.

Do you guys here know about the Develop menu for Safari? Probably you do.

If one has troubles, one good thing about them is that is one learns something new (and hopefully useful).

Likely I could empty the Safari cache in 10.9.1 by using some freebie apps that I never pay attention to. But it's nice to know that you can do it with just good old Apple. My first Mac was bought in early 1984 -- with all the guys signatures on the inside of the back panel. Got rid of it six years later (alas) without contemplating its $$$ value as a rather famous antique.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/19/14 03:14 AM
I hope your fix works.

I've always used command-option-E to empty Safari's cache (Safari 5.1.10 > Develop offers "Disable Cache", but not "Empty Cache".)

On the other hand, though, since Safari 5.0, my emptying cache via c-o-E has invariably resulted in Safari Web Content/WebProcess's crashing after a few emptyings.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/19/14 04:38 AM
Develop with Safari 7.0.1 (from 10.9.1) offers both empty caches and disable caches.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/19/14 09:21 AM
I'm not sure why "Disable" is still included; I may be misunderstanding its functionality, but it doesn't seem do anything.

I'll be interested to see if your cache emptying results in Safari's crashing.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/20/14 12:16 AM
No crashing so far. And no time outs either. But on both I'll have to wait and see.

I used Develop in the Safari menu bar to Empty Caches (surely Safari's), not remembering another route. But there is another route that somebody pointed out to me -- and that I should have remembered. Go to my user Library, Caches, and delete com.apple.Safari. Which I did.

But is it right to assume that Develop's "Empty Caches" does the same job that the deletion of the file named "com.apple.Safari" does. I assume so. But when different but similar words are used, one has to wonder whether that verbal difference means a substantive difference.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/20/14 01:19 AM
Originally Posted By: RHV
No crashing so far. And no time outs either. But on both I'll have to wait and see.

I used Develop in the Safari menu bar to Empty Caches (surely Safari's), not remembering another route. But there is another route that somebody pointed out to me -- and that I should have remembered. Go to my user Library, Caches, and delete com.apple.Safari. Which I did.

But is it right to assume that Develop's "Empty Caches" does the same job that the deletion of the file named "com.apple.Safari" does. I assume so. But when different but similar words are used, one has to wonder whether that verbal difference means a substantive difference.

I only experience the crashing when I empty Safari's cache multiple times between quitting it, so you may not be at risk.

Substantive difference assuming that this Snowy info holds true for Mavericks (and I suspect that it does): Since the introduction of Safari 5.0 there is no cache file in ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari, its location having changed to /private/var/folders/TE/TEdLZdGD2Rmh0U+F72QxX++++TI/-Caches-/com.apple.Safari. (1. The long string may be different on your Mac. 2. That location is also home to Safari's SafeBrowsing cache, which should not be deleted.)

Have you tried command-option-E (as I mentioned earlier)...the traditional way to empty Safari's cache?

Edit: A word of caution... Never delete folders without looking to see what's inside them first. (Extensions live, at least in part, in the folder you deleted.)
Posted By: tacit Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/20/14 08:17 PM
Deleting the folder com.apple.safari from your Caches directory does a little bit more than just deleting the Safari cache. It also deletes the caches your Safari extensions might use (if you have any extensions and if they use any cached information), and it deletes the previews used for example when you show the Safari Topsites.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/20/14 08:50 PM
1. Safari's cache has moved back to ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari in Mavericks and is no longer located in /private/var/folders/TE/TEdLZdGD2Rmh0U+F72QxX++++TI/-Caches-/com.apple.Safari as it is in Snowy?

2. I've got a folder for every one of my (Snowy) extensions in ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari, and their contents look more like ".../Extension/Contents" than caches; is caches all they actually are?

Thanks.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/20/14 09:00 PM
"Have you tried command-option-E (as I mentioned earlier)...the traditional way to empty Safari's cache?"

Yes. When one puts Develop into the Safari menu bar in 10.9, Develop's "Empty Caches" is given as option-command-E.

I used "Empty Caches", quit Safari, and then winged it by deleting com.apple.Safari from Caches in my user Library. I "seem" to have eliminated my time-outs with Safari. I've been in and out of my broker website (that prompted all my time-outs) a lot during the past 12 hours, getting info for doing my income taxes. No time-outs.

I don't know which of the two apparently did the job.
Posted By: dkmarsh Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/21/14 01:39 AM

In OS X 10.8.4, Safari 6.1, there is no Cache.db in /private/var/folders/pn/long_alphanumeric_string/C/com.apple.Safari/ [note that the path structure is a bit different as well]; the folder's only content is SafeBrowsing.db. I can't tell you if this changed in Lion, since I skipped from Leopard to Mountain Lion. The contents of ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/ in 10.8 are the same as in 10.5—Cache.db, Extensions/, and Webpage Previews/—but with two additional databases: Cache.db-shm and Cache.db-wal. I've been unable to unravel their functions.

The results of running ls -lSF ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/:

Code:
total 25840
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff  12435456 Feb 20 19:55 Cache.db
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff    758112 Feb 20 20:01 Cache.db-wal
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff     32768 Feb 20 14:23 Cache.db-shm
drwxr-xr-x  6 dkmarsh  staff       204 Feb 20 14:24 Extensions/
drwxr-xr-x  2 dkmarsh  staff        68 Feb 20 14:28 Webpage Previews/

After ⌥⌘E:

Code:
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff  12435456 Feb 20 19:55 Cache.db
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff    955872 Feb 20 20:02 Cache.db-wal
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff     32768 Feb 20 14:23 Cache.db-shm
drwxr-xr-x  6 dkmarsh  staff       204 Feb 20 14:24 Extensions/
drwxr-xr-x  2 dkmarsh  staff        68 Feb 20 14:28 Webpage Previews/
frittata:~ dkmarsh$ ls -lSF ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/

After quitting and relaunching Safari:

Code:
total 29296
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff  12435456 Feb 20 20:04 Cache.db
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff   2529712 Feb 20 20:04 Cache.db-wal
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff     32768 Feb 20 20:04 Cache.db-shm
drwxr-xr-x  6 dkmarsh  staff       204 Feb 20 20:04 Extensions/
drwxr-xr-x  2 dkmarsh  staff        68 Feb 20 14:28 Webpage Previews/

The only thing changing is Cache.db-wal…and it's growing.

Next, after moving ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/ to the Desktop, then quitting and relaunching Safari:

Code:
total 14752
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff  5070848 Feb 20 20:12 Cache.db
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff  2447312 Feb 20 20:13 Cache.db-wal
-rw-r--r--@ 1 dkmarsh  staff    32768 Feb 20 20:12 Cache.db-shm
drwxr-xr-x  5 dkmarsh  staff      170 Feb 20 20:12 Extensions/

Cache.db-wal is still more or less at its expanded size, but Cache.db has been cut by about 60%. (The Webpage Previews folder does eventually regenerate, under what circumstances I'm not sure. It's related to Top Sites, but only tangentially, since I never use that feature.)

Even a modest amount of googling reveals that the apparent dysfunctionality of Empty Caches/⌥⌘E in Mavericks has caused much gnashing of teeth. I can't recommend trashing ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/, but that's certainly what I would do, were I suspecting I had a cache-related issue. As for the Extensions folder, that appears to regenerate with no ill effects. There are slight changes in numbers of items within some individual Extensions' folders—perhaps the result of updated definitions or the like?—but my AdBlock customizations, for example, are still intact.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/21/14 06:22 AM
"Even a modest amount of googling reveals that the apparent dysfunctionality of Empty Caches/⌥⌘E in Mavericks has caused much gnashing of teeth. I can't recommend trashing ~/Library/Caches/com.apple.Safari/, but that's certainly what I would do, were I suspecting I had a cache-related issue."

DK --very helpful (as usual). Research takes time. And then there is the need for good judgment, such as yours.

I did not know about the apparent dysfunctionality of command ⌥⌘E in Mavs. So I used it first via the Develop menu in Safari 7.0.1. But I got time-outs afterwards.

But I blamed myself for that -- perhaps I did not use the command correctly (never used it before) or failed to shut down Safari afterwards before testing (I can't remember). So I did not mention the continued time outs. I should have.

And then, a longtime and quite reliable user on the OS X Forums recommended that I go to my User Library, Caches, and delete com. apple.Safari. I did that.

So far no time-outs -- and a lot of recent use of my broker investment account (that solely caused my time out problems) -- to get info for doing my 2013 income taxes. Four hours today. No problems or delays so afar. But i never want to judge success by the short term.

So, in retrospect, and after you, DK, have commented on the apparent dysfunctionality of Emptying Caches ⌥⌘E in Mavs (and my experience as above), I'll guess that by going to my User Library and doing the deletion there produced the "apparent" cure for my time out problems.

But I am a modest doubter of most things. Reported short term success often means little. Even carefully done tests in the natural and social sciences mean little unless they can be replicated independently by many others (who cancel often uncontrollable human biases and misunderstandings) and over a decently long length of time (to rule out random/accidental variations in results). Sorry for a mini lecture. But I was long ago a University prof lecturing on such subject matters.

Thanks DK
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/22/14 09:07 AM
Nice post; thanks for clearing that up.

That Cache.db-wal is, indeed, an elusive and mysterious little critter that I'd be deleting constantly if it were on my deuced Mac(hina).

I took a quick look for it (not Cache.db-shm, though) - knowing full well that I wasn't very likely to find very much if you couldn't - and found out little more than that it apparently first appeared in OS X 10.8.3, that it is apparently an iOS item, and that it seems to have something to do with an SQL database.

The complete absence of details about its contents, though, is pretty disconcerting.
Posted By: dkmarsh Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/22/14 12:19 PM

It turns out that .db-wal (Write-Ahead Logging) and .db-shm (Shared-Memory) files are associated with sqlite databases generally, not with cache files in particular. More specifically, they are parts of a mechanism by which changes to a database are recorded separately from the original as security against corruption due to a crash in the middle of a transaction (not unlike filesystem journaling in OS X—in fact, the traditional way of doing this in sqlite is via a rollback journal).

On the first page linked to above, mentioned as among the disadvantages of WAL mode are "an additional quasi-persistent "-wal" file and "-shm" shared memory file associated with each database."
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/24/14 02:52 AM
Great that you and Artie having an interchange.

As for me, none of what I have done has helped to eliminate my time outs on Safari as regards a particle website. I had a short term success only.

However, somebody on another website mentioned that doing a refresh after a Safari time out got him back to where he wanted to be. And, for me, it works most times -- not always.

Even when it works, it indicates a deficiency somewhere. Why would refreshing work -- even some of the time?

Posted By: dkmarsh Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/25/14 10:22 AM

Not sure what you mean by "refresh." Are you referring to reloading the web page?
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 02/26/14 04:05 PM
Yes -- reloading the page.

The Request Timeout error is explained here:

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/408error.htm

I've just downloaded the recent update for Mavs (9.0.2) which updates Safari to 7.0.2. I'll see if Safari 7.0.2 gives me Request Timeouts.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/02/14 04:45 AM
DK:

You NEED to fix up your FTM forums.

I started a post on my Safari TimeOut problem. Check to see the thread-- that you have posted to. Most of the posts do not relate to my problem. Most should have been sent to another topic heading.

When I came back to my topic at FTM, why did I have to see a bunch talking on other matters, no doubt possibly important matters that are congenial to them, but not addressed to my problem?

FTM seems to be, more and more, a bunch of insiders talking to themselves -- for lack of clients. And the insiders are not that with it on certain topics because, possibly, of the lack of demanding enquiries from clients.

Your guys/gals did not seem to know that my problem is fairly widespread -- no reference at all to my problem from other sites. Amazing -- as if my problem was a first for them!! Are your guys and gals a bit out to lunch?

Sorry to sound cranky. But I've pretty much given up on FTM from this recent experience. You MUST follow up on posted problems and not laden the follow ups with irrelevant insider and other talk. Dumb that FTM did not already know and cure that!! Your forums are NOT an alley for your insiders to learn and clog up responses to clients. The insiders must learn themselves from the outside and then help the clients from inside. The Apple and OS X forums are a good example of THAT WAY to meet what most users expect from forums.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/02/14 10:23 AM
I went out and walked a coupl'a miles in the vain hope that cyn, preferably, or one of the Mods would beat me to this, but, no such luck.

Your post made me laugh, albeit sadly.

Do you realize that you hijacked your own thread...spun it off in a totally unrelated direction to complain about others having veered off tangentially?

Your complaint would have been more appropriately posted in the FineTunedMac Feedback Forum.

Welcome to the club. wink
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/02/14 10:50 AM
By the way, you've never told us which Website is causing your grief; it just might result in some useful feedback from others who either visit the same site or are interested in visiting it to see if they can replicate your experience.
Posted By: dkmarsh Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/02/14 12:22 PM

RHV—

I agree that this thread has veered away from your issue and apologize for the extent to which I may have been responsible. Unfortunately, such digressions sometimes—as in this case—occur incrementally rather than in one fell swoop, and it’s much easier to measure the extent of the wandering in retrospect than it is in real time.

For instance, I wonder what you’d characterize as the first off-topic post in this thread? Clearly a question and answer session regarding the meaning of database terminology has no connection with Safari timeouts, but that discussion arose as part of an exploration of the effectiveness of alternative techniques for emptying Safari’s cache—an exploration which you initiated:

Originally Posted By: RHV
But is it right to assume that Develop's "Empty Caches" does the same job that the deletion of the file (sic) named "com.apple.Safari" does. I assume so. But when different but similar words are used, one has to wonder whether that verbal difference means a substantive difference.

My posting of Terminal output was an attempt to shed some light on this question. Unfortunately, my understanding of SQL and its variants was insufficient to derive useful information from the exercise other than to note that deleting the folder resulted in a much smaller cache.

Your gracious reply to my post didn’t seem to contain any indication that you found the discussion to that point to have lost its germaneness to the topic of your Safari timeouts. Now, was artie’s followup commentary regarding the mysterious additional cache files off-topic? Maybe so, and if that’s the specific post at which the database discussion should have been transplanted out of the thread, then I apologize for instead having responded to it. (Fact is, I had already done additional research and educated myself, at least in a cursory way, as to the function of those files, and given the fact that I had, in the post you responded positively to, indicated a complete lack of awareness of their function, I felt some responsibility to update that status.)

When you expressed your feeling that your issue was now being pushed aside, I responded by seeking clarification about what you meant by “refreshing.” In your subsequent reply, you said:

Originally Posted By: RHV
I've just downloaded the recent update for Mavs (9.0.2) which updates Safari to 7.0.2. I'll see if Safari 7.0.2 gives me Request Timeouts.

I can’t speak for other followers of the thread, but I was awaiting your report.

However, the ongoing discussion RE database transactions in which that exchange between you and me was submerged is clearly at an entire magnitude’s remove from relevance to your topic, and I’ve requested that the posts comprising that discussion be moved to constitute a separate thread.

Apropos of your issue, though: in your initial post, you say:

Quote:
With Firefox or Google Chrome, never a time out.

No time outs with Safari on my bank website or other sites.

This certainly seems to indicate that your issue is with a single site. How, then—when the site is unnamed—can you expect us “to know that [your] problem is fairly widespread?” If your research indicates that there’s a general issue with Safari timing out on individual sites, why not include a link or two in your own posts to direct our attention to those other sources of information? Contributors here are already investing at least some time and energy in following threads and researching answers; why denigrate them (“[a]re your guys and gals a bit out to lunch?”) for failing to do research you’ve already done? The guys and gals who contribute here do so voluntarily, out of a general shared interest in Mac troubleshooting topics. Nobody makes a dime, so it might be a stretch to refer to those seeking help as "clients."

I agree that you shouldn't have to mine your thread to extract posts of relevance, and I'm sorry that happened in this case. Can we assume that the Mavericks/Safari update did not fix your issue?

Edit: the referenced branch of posts has been moved.
Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/03/14 03:06 AM
RHV,

Let me personally apologize for your issue's treatment here. I too am using Safari by preference over Firefox and like you I am using Mavericks (now 10.9.2) and Safari's latest iteration. I too have noticed occasional slow downs or stalls when browsing, but rather than ascribe them to Safari specifically, I took them to be caused by the particular network I was using. I didn't take the time to research your issue further for several reasons….among them that most of the stalls I had seen were cleared by simply reloading the page, AND I personally hadn't been inconvenienced to the same level that you experienced with your financial institution's site….and for whatever reason, you hadn't made it clear that this was as widespread as you now have clearly let us know with your latest post.

The discussion on cache clearing and all of the side topics regarding the various releases of Safari are relevant, however, and should remain in this thread so that others can learn from that info. While not everyone else may be on the same version of Safari as you, they might also be experiencing similar symptoms and, for them, clearing caches could help.

I will be traveling like you for the next week or so and will explore the other forum's discussions to see what, if any, other suggestions for resolution have been raised.

Please bear with us a while longer…..
Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/03/14 04:46 PM
Researching some outside forums using a Google search for "Safari stalls Mavericks" has yielded limited progress….so far, the issues reported seem to be all over the page, but one suggestion I've seen seems reasonable.

https://discussions.apple.com/message/23893235#23893235

Linc Davis on the Apple Support Forums posted a possible solution noted above. I haven't tried it yet as I am away from MY Mavericks 10.9.2 / Safari 7.0.2 installation until later today, however, his thought that there may be an ACL and/or user permissions issue holds some credibility in my view. My particular case may be different from yours as my computer came with Mavericks already installed directly from the box.

I'll post back later today once I've tested his suggestion.
Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 04:25 AM
RHV,

I'm responding to your posts specifically so that we can try to reconcile your issue with Safari stalling when you go to your financial investments broker web site. If you are still tracking this discussion please let us know if the recent update to 10.9.2 (which included Safari 7.0.2) has had any impact.

I haven't seen any stalls since my update, but my setup is not quite the same as yours.....my computer came new with Mavericks installed as opposed to yours having been upgraded from an earlier OS.

The potential resolution I cited in my earlier post may be more appropriate to your installation.

Let us know.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 05:33 AM
"Do you realize that you hijacked your own thread...spun it off in a totally unrelated direction to complain about others having veered off tangentially?"

I hijacked and spun off my own thread in an unrelated direction by complaining about the too many irrelevant entries re: my Safari Time Outs problem in the thread I started?

How did I managed to hijack or spin off my own thread given that my complaint came last in the conversation? Most times the present does not cause things to happen in the past.

So, Artie, you must therefore be saying that my complaint hijacked and spun off my thread by foreclosing future advice re: my problem that has YET to come from FTM.

Artie, I dearly hope you are right in that. So … will you please forgive my complaint and advance that advice. I keenly await it. My problem is still unsolved.

In the meantime, what happened in my thread on Safari Time Outs at FTM was a good example of how a forum should NOT work. The helpers took over on topics of interest to them but unrelated to my problem. When the OP returns to his/her thread, all that’s in it MUST be clearly related to the OP’s problem. If the helpers want to help each other to be better educated in their helper tasks, they should do it in a helper education section of the forum — like the lounge but aimed instead at techie stuff. But not, of course, in an OP's thread. Goodness me ... that that, apparently, has to be said.

Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 05:41 AM
Artie, it's a broker website -- as I stated at the outset. You have to log in. Then my problem occurs. Im not telling anybody how to log in.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 07:29 AM
Originally Posted By: RHV
Artie, it's a broker website -- as I stated at the outset. You have to log in. Then my problem occurs. Im not telling anybody how to log in.

You didn't specify that your problem occurs only when you're logged in to...which Website was it, again, and if that's the case, you've omitted what may be a critical piece of your puzzle; don't forget that what others are experiencing are certainly similar to, but not necessarily identical to, your time-outs.

I most assuredly don't expect you to provide your own log-in details, but some others may use the same broker and have their own, other others may choose to create their own accounts in order to experiment, and still others may choose to experiment without logging in (if your broker's Website offers visitors' browsing options as does mine).

But MacManiac's contributions may have made all of that inconsequential, and we anxiously await your response.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 07:45 AM
Originally Posted By: RHV
"Do you realize that you hijacked your own thread...spun it off in a totally unrelated direction to complain about others having veered off tangentially?"

I hijacked and spun off my own thread in an unrelated direction by complaining about the too many irrelevant entries re: my Safari Time Outs problem in the thread I started?

How did I managed to hijack or spin off my own thread given that my complaint came last in the conversation? Most times the present does not cause things to happen in the past.

So, Artie, you must therefore be saying that my complaint hijacked and spun off my thread by foreclosing future advice re: my problem that has YET to come from FTM.

Artie, I dearly hope you are right in that. So … will you please forgive my complaint and advance that advice. I keenly await it. My problem is still unsolved.

In the meantime, what happened in my thread on Safari Time Outs at FTM was a good example of how a forum should NOT work. The helpers took over on topics of interest to them but unrelated to my problem. When the OP returns to his/her thread, all that’s in it MUST be clearly related to the OP’s problem. If the helpers want to help each other to be better educated in their helper tasks, they should do it in a helper education section of the forum — like the lounge but aimed instead at techie stuff. But not, of course, in an OP's thread. Goodness me ... that that, apparently, has to be said.

I'm in an awkward position, hardly being anywhere near as pure as the driven snow, but I'll respond by saying that perpetuating this line of discussion here, rather than in the FTM Feedback Forum, would be as inappropriate as you've found the other digressions in this thread to be.

Mods: It might benefit all FTMers if this line of discussion were to be relocated.
Posted By: artie505 Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 09:45 AM
And, by the way, I've alluded to my culpability but never apologized for it; I should have had the presence to realize that even though your thread had digressed, my question crossed a line.

Sorry.
Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 01:48 PM
So now that you and Artie have had your chance to clear the air....let's move on with resolving your issue successfully together.

I'm still waiting on some feedback from you to see where we are.....please.

(EDIT:) FWIW, I used the Console as described in the external post from Linc referenced above to look at the underlying errors on the only Safari stall I've experienced (just now) since updating to 10.9.2 / Safari 7.0.2 and found that it was a networking error under TCP/IP that complained of no path to host for a web page that hung....and when I refreshed/reloaded the page it came in immediately.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/04/14 04:47 PM
Thanks MacM -- and DK too for your interventions on my behalf. The problem continues with Safari 7.0.2.

Yes ... when I get a timeout page and reload that page, I get the page I was seeking. But if on that page I try to open a link and then get another timeout, reloading does nothing.

My Safari 7.0.2 works fine except on one website. And it often works fine there for a period of time. I am unable to detect any regularity in my behaviour that produces the time outs -- though I have been carefully watching in the hope of finding such a regularity.

I said earlier that Safari time outs were fairly commonplace. I was not, DK, referring to time outs under 10.9. The timeout problems I found mostly had to do with past versions of Safari. But if there was a past solution, it might also be a present solution. But there was, as I remember, a paucity of past solutions.

Right now, I don't have enough free time to want to pursue my problem. I'm just using Firefox. When I get more free time, I'm going to go back to those who administer my broker website -- and bother them again.

Thanks again for your interventions on my behalf, and goodbye for now.
Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/05/14 11:35 PM
Well, I don't have a solution to report, but I can say what HASN'T resolved things just yet....

1. Clearing caches
2. Changing DNS
3. Resetting user ACL's and permissions
4. Assigning a different User Agent (Chrome and Firefox work ONCE)
5. Looking for an entry in the Console while stalled...NOTHING shows!!!

So, whatever the issue is remains a mystery to me.....
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/06/14 12:32 AM
MacM -- I'm not now going back to my old problem. Giggle, giggle.

But ... what did your stall -- you mentioned previously, I think, one only -- consist in? I would say that a Request Time Out is a stall. But you didn't have that, did you? So what did you have?

Also ... I find this embarrassing. Though I DID have two Time Outs after installing 10.9.2, I have not had one for 48 hours. A delayed fix? Not likely ... but who knows?

Your are still in San D and flying? I remember you well and with appreciation on the forerunner Mac forums to FTM -- from way back. My wife and I are now in the Coachella Valley -- our sixtieth winter there. But at age 80, I don't how many more winters we can escape from the low temps of Winnipeg, Canada.

Best wishes to you and yours. Roy

Posted By: MacManiac Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/06/14 02:01 AM
Yep, currently in San Diego, and like yourself (I'm assuming) I've joined the ranks of RV ownership and in the last sixteen months (since purchasing a 1995 time capsule Trek 2430 turbo diesel) I've accumulated nearly 16,000 miles of experience. I was in Indio in January. Got to say there's a lot I find enticing in the RV world.....

My stalls / failure to complete a page load / interminable delays don't seem to be related to any specific site but MAY be related to the MiFi network that I am currently using....when I shift to the other available WiFi network, it seems as if the stalls MIGHT abate somewhat, but that's purely subjective at this point. It's merely a small annoyance for me as it stands, but when a page load stops progressing intermittently and requires a refresh/reload to get going again enough times it becomes a major annoyance.

I'll be heading back north to Oregon later this week....and not long after that, I should be back to work at that "far, far away" place overseas.

I really wish I could pin this performance issue down to one specific cause, but it just isn't happening so far.
Posted By: JM Hanes Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/16/14 12:58 AM
Quote:
Most of the posts do not relate to my problem….. Your guys/gals did not seem to know that my problem is fairly widespread….


I've only been a sporadic visitor for some time, so I don't know if this is part of some other ongoing discussion, but the dialogue in this thread all seemed pretty relevant to the subject to me, despite my personal lack of tech expertise (or maybe because of it!). Back when I was in regular attendance, it seemed to me that we expected everybody, not just the moderators, to bring anything they've learned, or scouted out, or experienced elsewhere, to the table. I know whenever I do stop by to ask for help, I also look around to see if there's a question I might be able to help answer too, before I leave. We thought of ourselves as participants, not (non-paying) clients.

At the risk of not speaking directly to your own request, I'd like to thank you for mentioning the developer menu, which I had completely forgotten. It includes a useful feature which will help with a problem I laid out in a separate query. Sometimes an idea that may seem a little off topic, will actually stimulate someone else's thinking in a way that ends up resolving a question which might otherwise have gone unanswered.
Posted By: RHV Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/17/14 03:39 AM
Good that the Develop menu was of some use to you. And thanks for mentioning that. Always good to know that one was useful.

But my reference to that menu was not at all off topic (not even a little) -- just in case you might be suggesting that it was. Using that menu allowed me in an easy way to empty my Safari caches -- an alleged possible cure for my timeout problems with Safari that was recommended by others.

I do realize that irrelevant material brought into the discussion of an OP's problem can help others who have problems other than the OP's. I do not to challenge that. I challenge the idea that such material -- especially if discussed at length -- should be allowed by the forum moderators in the OP's post, rather than being set up under another topic heading.
Posted By: JM Hanes Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/17/14 08:23 PM
I was mostly reacting to your expectations as an ostensible "client." If I'd refreshed the page, and seen all the subsequent comments, before I submitted my own, I probably wouldn't have posted it.

In any case, I didn't mean to suggest that the develop menu was off topic -- sorry for the confusing syntax. That really was just a thank you. In fact, I've used the drop-down menu to good effect more than once today, already.
Posted By: tacit Re: Time Outs With Safari - 03/17/14 11:12 PM
Originally Posted By: RHV
But ... what did your stall -- you mentioned previously, I think, one only -- consist in? I would say that a Request Time Out is a stall.


Well....it depends on what you mean by a "stall."

An HTTP Request Timeout is a particular HTTp error that means, put simply, your browser initiated a connection with a Web site but then either the browser didn't send any requests to the Web site or the Web server didn't reply back in a timely manner.

They're maddeningly difficult to track down, they can happen at random, and they usually don't depend on the browser itself. I wonder if it's just plain statistical fluke when one browser gets it and another don't; they can happen just base on the load on the server or the routing of information between you and the server.
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