GEt this constantly. all time now. Especially with APFS, volumes... Need to force eject cause one of more problems may be using it. IN fact nothing is using the disk. Then says may cause problems if force eject STuck, what going on? thanks!

There may be an unseen process using it. Before you force-eject, see if Activity Monitor shows anything. You can kill the offending process via AM.

That you know of, but there may be all sorts of activity going on in the background or it may be that a previous task that has already completed but failed to release the drive.

Thanks guys great. Yes when look at dock, is seems nothing using is. Ok will try to remember to look at activity monitor, but monitor wont way what using app either right?

Another question. Just notice, if you choose to force eject, little sign comes up saying not Kosher.. ha ha.. ie creating damage doing that to the drive? Correct. So all recommended not force ejecting if don't have to?

In the past (a different OS, can't remember which), the Force-Quit dialog box named the application that was in use. Do you see anything like that?

EDIT: I just remembered that the situation was slightly different. I had booted from a clone in order to run Disk Warrior on the internal drive. I got a message that that drive could not be unmounted by DW because it was in use, and two Adobe processes were mentioned. I used Activity Monitor to kill those processes and was able to use DW.

Don't think so Jon.

Activity Monitor tells you what tasks are reading and writing to a disk. and it tells what user the task belongs to. It does not tell you what disk or what volume the task is reading or writing to. In the case where a task quits without releasing the drive then Activity Monitor may not tell you anything. There used to be a Terminal command that would tell you what tasks are accessing what volume, but either it has been deprecated and removed from macOS or I forgot what the command is/was.

There are any number of both system and user tasks that may be accessing any given drive at any given time. The most common system owned suspects are Disk Utility, Time Machine and Spotlight. Among user tasks, Carbon Copy Cloner, Hazel, SpamSeive, Keyboard Maestro, and almost any app that monitors the system in any way have all been implicated at one time or another.

If this is happening often Spotlight would be high on my list of suspects and the classical "fix" for anything to do with Spotlight is rebuilding the Spotlight index following Apple's Instructions then leave your computer running, go to bed, get a good night's sleep and by the time you wake up the next morning it should be finished.

Works for me in 12.4/10.16.4 Monterey.

Have to ask; how bad is doing force eject. IS much better to try not to ever do that, as harms hard drives?

I'm getting now on even sparse, "virtual" drives, and quit Word, still wont eject unless do force ,or wait it out.. For sparse same question if do force eject too much could corrupt the sparse drive?

When an app opens a file for read/write access, a "flag" is set in the OS indicting a file is open. Normally that flag is removed when you take any action in the application to close the file, including saving the file or quitting the application (⌘S, ⇧⌘W, ⇧⌘S, ⌘Q, etc.). The principal risk arises when the file directory is being updated. A disconnect in that brief instant of time can leave the volume directory in an undetermined state and therefore damaged and increasing the possibility of a "cross-linked" file. Twenty years ago, cross-linked files were relatively common, but changes in hardware and software over the past two decades have made cross-linked files almost unheard of. I don't remember the last time I heard of one occurring but, the possibility, and the warning from the system, still exists.

In summary: force disconnects are undesirable, but the risk is minimal. The risk is the same each time a force disconnects occurs. However, force disconnects should not be necessary and consistent force connects is unacceptable.

Refresh my memory:

1. Is this only happening in any application other than Word?
2. are you running the latest version of Word for Mac available? If not, why not?
3. have you reinstalled Word? If not, why not?
4. other than familiarity, is there any reason you cannot use a different work processor?

Thanks Joe,

Word is a guess, though when opened Sparse image today, I did open word, typed, saved, quit, no hope, still needs a force eject.

Am I over worrying or would you just do the force eject and not worry about it? That's what been doing.

Does not come up every time, but yeah, see them, disc is being used, with other externals.. (The sparse, is what.. it's virtual?)

So worry is negligible to force eject? AGain, not consistent, but enough to be annoying, but if you say, just force eject those desultory instances, I'd go with that.. checking seem how harmful

Was the file you typed, saved, quit on the file/volume/sparse image you had to force quit?


I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but it should not be happening and is a possible indicator of underlying issues.


Specifically, are you having to force quit a physical drive, a sparse image volume on a drive, or what? What is being used with what other externals?


When you use the term virtual I would remind you that every data structure seen by the user in APFS is virtual in that the organized structure we see and interact with has little or nothing to do with how, or where, that data is physically stored and organized. It is merely one layer in a deep stack of virtualizations. A convenient illusion to make the computer comprehensible to e poor benighted humans, like us. It is an over-simplification to say, a sparse image file is a file that appears to the operating system as if it were a volume. Sparse images are that, but with numerous complications, and were originally used for Time-Machine storage. APFS volumes are also virtual but at a much deeper level in the hierarchy, making them more stable, and have supplanted sparse image files in Time Machine. I don't know why you use sparse image files, but I have to believe APFS volumes would be a significantly superior option.


To reiterate: "I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, but it should not be happening and is a possible indicator of underlying issues" and I would want to know why they are happening at all in case there is something else untoward going on.

You ducked my previous questions...

and now I have added

1. Was the file you typed, saved, quit on the file/volume/sparse image you had to force quit?
2. Specifically, are you having to force quit a physical drive, a sparse image volume on a drive, or what?
3. What is being used with what other externals?

If you are interested in pursuing this further, specific answers to those questions could help save a lot of time spent chasing our collective tails.

Ok Joe, just quit, restarted, opened that sparse image, opened a Word doc, saved, closed, and then ejected fine.

Checked Word, and says up to day. So who knows.. (I do have Crash plan running I guess in background, but that sparse is excluded from being copied to cloud (crashplan).

Then earlier in thread, someone mentioned could have things in the background..... TM who knows..

So can't seem to pin point this. Happens on sparse, but also intermittently on externals... not sure what pattern is.. (try to keep the "what I doing before ejecting" antenna up. Good into..

Intermittent issues like this are notoriously difficult to troubleshoot, and often the only way of finding out what is going on is by looking at the log files. Unfortunately, the log files are generally comprehensible only to developers with access to the actual code. However, with a bit of luck, someone here might be able to discern what is going from the log entries.

The next time you get the disconnect error and
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE...

1. In the /Applications/Utilities folder, launch Console
2. In the Console sidebar, click on system log
3. Copy the last 20 or 30 lines from the log
4. paste those lines into a reply to this thread and post it
5. keep your fingers crossed for luck

With luck, someone here will be able to interpret the log and identify the problem.

Thanks Joe, this is not a disconnect error. The hard drives are are not disconnecting.

They were before... bailed on 2 and bought 2 new one, that is ok now...Now it's me ejecting and occasionally getting the "hard drive is still in use would you like to force eject"

Let me rephrase my previous response...

The next time you attempt to disconnect any drive and receive the "...Drive in use" message...
BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE...

1. In the /Applications/Utilities folder, launch Console
2. In the Console sidebar, click on system log
3. Copy the last 20 or 30 lines from the log
4. paste those lines into a reply to this thread and post it
5. keep your fingers crossed for luck

With luck, someone here will be able to interpret the log and identify the problem, but to be honest, drive use is generally highly transitory, and is likely to prove very difficult to trap.

NEW QUESTION:

Just to be sure we are dealing with the right issue, I need to know WHY YOU ARE DISCONNECTING DRIVES?

Joe, well the sparse ones are password protected, so when done looking I eject.

And then often some of the external volumes I have up, maybe I want to clear the desktop....
but , ok hold onto this and keep antenna up and do that.. report back. Thanksl

Have you tried running the Terminal command I posted?

Next time that alert comes up, before you do anything else, enter in Terminal, and you'll get a looong list of every process that's running on your Mac at the moment.
Then, post the entire list and tell us the exact name of the volume, and that will enable us to search the list to see which, if any, processes are running in it.

here Joe logs

com.apple.mkb.internal".
Output parameters from ASL Module "com.apple.mkb.internal" override any specified in ASL Module "com.apple.mkb".
Jul 19 00:30:04 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: Configuration Notice:
ASL Module "com.apple.mkb" claims selected messages.
Those messages may not appear in standard system log files or in the ASL database.
Jul 19 00:30:04 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: Configuration Notice:
ASL Module "com.apple.MessageTracer" claims selected messages.
Those messages may not appear in standard system log files or in the ASL database.
Jul 19 00:36:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 00:46:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 00:57:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 01:08:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 02:59:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:10:45 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:21:49 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:32:34 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 03:44:20 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 04:06:45 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:07:43 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:21:14 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:31:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:41:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 06:48:56 iMac-2 DriveDx[595]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 19 06:49:26 --- last message repeated 71 times ---
Jul 19 06:52:10 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:00:44 iMac-2 DriveDx[595]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 19 07:01:14 --- last message repeated 79 times ---
Jul 19 07:02:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:14:21 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:30:07 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:46:23 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 07:56:27 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 08:06:30 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 19 08:25:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics




What weird this one today upper right monitor

https://imgur.com/a/PKqV2ZR

Super Duper did a 7am smart update, but that is set to no do anything, and in face all the externals are on desktop, don't see anything was ejected... and did not do a reboot to bring that back, so odd.

The notification in the image you posted above reminds me of some of the messages I used to get. Turns out they were the result of a power fluctuation during the night. Not enough to cause a power outage, which I would have noticed (reset the microwave clock ), but enough to cause the Mac to "hiccup", even with the Mac on a battery backup power supply, causing the notices of improper HD ejection. This was with hard drives connected directly to the Mac's USB ports. The problem seems to have disappeared for me, and I don't recall doing anything in particular.

Thanks Ira, and your external hardrives were not really ejeted?

That looks like a different issue to me. There is a known issue with Thunderbolt drives disconnecting, but I had not previously associated it with USB connected drives. Apple is known to have been working on a fix for years now, but the work-around is: In system Preferences > Energy Saver...

• Click on "Power" and turn on (check) the item labeled "Prevent your Mac From Sleeping when the display sleeps"
• Turn off (uncheck) the item labeled "Put hard disks to sleep when possible"
• Click on Schedule be sure "Sleep" is not turned on

Try that for a while and see if the disconnect messages do not go away. It cured a similar problem with drives in my RAID array disconnecting, disappearing, and getting out of sync.

As to your log file, I don't see anything untoward in what you sent.

NOTE: If the idea of your computer drawing power and not being productive bothers you, as it bothers me, consider downloading and installing BOINC, pick a few interesting projects and donate those unused computer cycles to various scientific endeavors. (Over the years I have contributed over ten million computational units to various projects such as mapping the galaxy, and looking for a cure for cancer.)

Thanks JOe, energy saver I have what you say first two, but last I do schedule to sleep from midnight to 7am.

What said, what guess on this error of ejecting, especially since, I still see the hardrived are mounted? Is that odd?

From my experience, it would appear the issue may be one of timing rather than the drive being actually dismounted. The system attempts to access the drive and because it is asleep (powered down) and has to spin up the disk and position the read/write heads, so the drive is abnormally slow to respond. As a result, the I/O request to the drive times out and an error condition is raised. The system "sees" this as a disconnect. The workaround keeps the drive rotating, thus reducing the response delay below the timeout threshold. In other words, the system momentarily sees the drive as disconnected. As far as I know, this only effects hard drives.

As I think about it, a long (say 2 meters, or more) or poor quality connecting cable could contribute to a delayed response from the drive and increase the risk of raising a disconnect error.

They were ejected—that's why the "not properly ejected" notice appeared for me—but re-mounted once the power hiccup passed. And as joemikeb points out in the post above, my issue could also have been what he describes. They were USB connected hard drives.

Joe just happened right now. Was writing on word doc, which is in sparse disk, and got the cannot eject something using .... Quit word, still got i. HEre are last 20 lines in system log:
Seeing a lot of Drive X there, could it be culprit?

Ah, good news, quit, DriveS, still would not eject.

Then did quit all with my 3rd party app application wizard, and then it ejecte ok. But 8 things up so not sure which one culprit, but at least know... to single that out new round.. hopefully find out.


ul 24 10:27:11 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 10:27:41 --- last message repeated 126 times ---
Jul 24 10:32:27 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 10:37:32 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 10:38:02 --- last message repeated 135 times ---
Jul 24 10:43:01 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 10:43:33 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 10:44:03 --- last message repeated 135 times ---
Jul 24 10:56:46 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 10:56:47 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 10:57:17 --- last message repeated 135 times ---
Jul 24 11:07:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 11:19:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 11:24:57 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 11:25:28 --- last message repeated 271 times ---
Jul 24 11:30:17 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 11:49:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 12:04:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 12:16:39 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 12:22:53 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 12:23:23 --- last message repeated 189 times ---
Jul 24 12:25:26 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 12:25:26 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 12:25:56 --- last message repeated 246 times ---
Jul 24 12:34:16 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 12:37:40 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 12:38:10 --- last message repeated 131 times ---
Jul 24 12:46:19 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 24 12:55:58 iMac-2 DriveDx[564]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 24 12:56:30 --- last message repeated 131 times ---
Jul 24 12:56:52 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics

Regarding all the mentions of DriveDX in the system log, those are normal. I have no valid explanation other than it may result from the fact the USB standard does not provide for reporting S.M.A.R.T. or NVMe data, but there is an open-source utility that somehow tricks USB into allowing the information to be reported. But that utility is essentially a hack and could easily result in the system log messages because it is forcing USB to do something it was never intended to do. That utility/hack is widely used to get around other limitations of USB by companies such as Micromat, Microsoft, Apple, and any number of open-source developers. I believe the Thunderbolt standard does provide for reporting S.M.A.R.T. and NVMe attributes.

Keys, I go to thinking about this and once again I strongly urge you to switch from sparse image files to APFS volumes. I cannot guarantee it will eliminate this problem, but it will eliminate at least a few under-the-hood processing steps, and you would gain additional speed, reliability and stability.

Thanks Joe, I could do that. I think you may have even introduced me to sparse images (dmg) years ago. Now key here is these 2 sparses, it was one, I broke up to 2, I could bring back again to one.. are password protected, the only password protected folders on the imac.. (financial records, more...).

What love about sparse in you eject and they are gone, dont' see then until choose to bring up again.

With APFS Volume can't do that.. I spoke to an Apple tech. hence always going to come up on desktop when reboot, whereas, with spare, dont' come up when reboot, so less clutter on desktop.

That said, you think sparse is more unstable than apfs volumes? This issue perhaps is happening more with sparse than with other externals lately. I thought happening with externals as much, maybe not.. If that is so, why would sparse have this eject issue (being used ) more than other externals?

Sparse image files are file systems on top of the drive's file system, where an APFS volume is entirely at the level of the drive itself. One less layer to process and one less opportunity for an error to occur. Change one character in one file in an image file, and Time Machine has to back up the entire Sparse Image. Change one character in one file on an APFS volume, and all Time Machine has to back up is the one data sector the character was in. With an encrypted Sparse image, the encryption and decryption is an extra step on opening and closing the file. With an encrypted APFS volume, the encryption and decryption is part of the read/write operation.

The point about sparse image only appearing on the desktop when it is open is valid, but I know that anything on the desktop makes significant inroads in system resources such as cycles and memory so unlike my physical desktop, I keep the computer's desktop empty and never have any disks appearing on the desktop (Finder > Preferences > General). I work on the theory that since I have to be in finder to access any drive or volume I can see, and open or close, the drives/volumes are available in the Sidebar. I have customized the sidebar so that even my most frequently used folders appear there. I have to log on with a password, my Apple Watch, or fingerprint anyway, so all my drives and volumes are encrypted, but I only have to log on to my account and everything is automatically opened. That also means when my system locks automatically, the volumes lock as well, a handy security feature.

But, that is my story, and I am sticking to it. When you started using sparse image files, they were the best available option, but that was long before APFS volumes. It is your choice, and I am dropping the subject unless you have questions.

Thanks JOe, great post/ perspective. Where in finder preferences do you see to " I keep the computer's desktop empty"

Don't see it... yet.. for some reason..

You don't see that because it is a personal choice and policy, and not a setting. What you will see in Finder > Preferences > General is this which permits or prevents system items from appearing on the desktop and this where you configure the sidebar. The resulting sidebar looks like this.

I think you mentioned perviously you use Application Wizard, as do I. The yellow dot in the Application Wizard menu bar will show you volumes, too, so you can hide the APFS volumes joemikeb suggests and still see them in Application Wizard.

Thanks Ira and Joe.
Ok what saying is it's all or nothing.

You can choose to show nothing on desktop or all externals and internal HD on deektop.

Hmmmm. I'm so used to seeing and accessing quickly things from Mac HD and the external Data.... But you cannot be selective, correct of which one you may or may not want to mount on desktop after a reboot?

IRA, wow never gone into Application wizard to see volumes, but just tested something. An unmounted volume is there in application wizard greyed out, and when you click on it in quickly mounts it. Thats fantastic, because otherwise you have to tediously fire up DU -- which itself can take something a minute to get going, and then tediously find the volume there on it's convoluted cluttered list..... great tip!

ps App wizard for some reason does not show Time Mahine, but if not on desktop, the finder sidebar, can show it, so between App Wizard and finder sidebar, I can finally get Hardrive off the desktop.. less clutter there.

Lots of apps do not show Time Machine drives because they belong to the system, not the user, and should never be accessed other than through the Time Machine app. There are also APFS volumes on the boot drive that not even Finder or Disk Utility will show, for the same reason.

Joe I for years, just would grab what need in TM direct through finder. Now learned not to do that, but have to say, I yesterday, went through TM, and like full minute to get thing up to the past folder.. So much faster doing it in finder.

I see my Time Machine drive in my Application Wizard (via the yellow dot).

You can see just external hard drives OR just the internal HD OR both on the Desktop. They are separate check boxes in Finder>Preferences>General. For example, I see externals but not the internal on my Desktop. You could choose to have the opposite arrangement.

Ira, thanks, can send screenshot of TM under yellow dot? Just tripled checked, wont come up for me.

Joe, made APFS moved sparse to that, think good long term idea what said, but alas, this "wasn't ejected because one or more programs may be using it come up still..
I know program using, viewing images, closed that still come up. From Console


OH forgot, that solved this last time by quitting all. Ok so from app wizard, just quit first thing bottom on list Window 10 (part of parallels), and solved issue. But keep test that isolated quitting to see if that it.

BTW, advantage Ira/ Joe of App wizard in App wizard, it SHOWS what been unmounted greyed out, great. Whereas side bar if unmount it's gone there, and do preference to not show on dektop then you really have to go into DU, but app wizard has whole list of volumes always.

ul 27 11:33:14 --- last message repeated 287 times ---
Jul 27 11:40:29 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 11:53:00 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:03:06 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:13:28 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:16:44 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:17:14 --- last message repeated 287 times ---
Jul 27 12:18:19 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:18:19 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:18:49 --- last message repeated 430 times ---
Jul 27 12:18:49 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:19:19 --- last message repeated 215 times ---
Jul 27 12:19:27 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:19:27 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:19:57 --- last message repeated 358 times ---
Jul 27 12:20:28 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:20:28 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:20:58 --- last message repeated 70 times ---
Jul 27 12:20:58 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:20:58 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:21:28 --- last message repeated 142 times ---
Jul 27 12:21:51 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:21:51 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:22:21 --- last message repeated 70 times ---
Jul 27 12:23:15 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:23:15 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:23:45 --- last message repeated 70 times ---
Jul 27 12:24:20 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:24:20 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:24:20 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:24:50 --- last message repeated 200 times ---
Jul 27 12:33:24 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:33:24 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:33:55 --- last message repeated 262 times ---
Jul 27 12:36:34 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:54:37 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 12:54:38 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 12:55:08 --- last message repeated 263 times ---
Jul 27 13:02:04 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:02:04 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:02:34 --- last message repeated 138 times ---
Jul 27 13:04:54 iMac-2 syslogd[133]: ASL Sender Statistics
Jul 27 13:06:24 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:06:54 --- last message repeated 199 times ---
Jul 27 13:08:57 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:08:57 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:09:27 --- last message repeated 376 times ---
Jul 27 13:09:53 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:09:53 iMac-2 DriveDx[616]: Could not find io classes of disk
Jul 27 13:10:23 --- last message repeated 152 times ---

The logs are not showing anything of value so you can drop that. I was unaware you were running Parallels, but that could easily be the culprit.

Thanks Joe, got it, hmmm parallels, specifical window 10 was up to try, but how could it be culprit -- It has nothing to do with that apfs drive at all....

Refer to my post #62085.

Joe final question on sparse vs password protected volume. With Sparse, reboot, and nothing pesters me on the reboot. With password protected volume every reboot forever you get this on your desktop,

https://imgur.com/a/JNQvs4U

So dismiss is, ok. pesty thing. Imagine if you have 3-4 of those.. No way around that, hence actually prefer sparse. Is sparse not as stabile? Sure, is worth that nuisance to do password protected volume instead of sparse?

There is also this slow loading of password volume, but maybe I don't see that with sparse as it has to load the volume at beginning, maybe just used to that better/ more?

Simply enter your password at the prompt and check the box to remember the password and you will never see the prompt again. But the volume will be unlocked. Offset that by...

• In System Preferences > Security & Privacy > General and checking the box labeled Require Password and select how long to wait before setting a password.
• In system Preferences > Users & Groups > Login Items and set Automatic login Off.

After that, any time you leave the computer press ⌘Q to lock the computer and anyone coming in the room would have to know your password to access anything on the Machine. By-the-way this is easier to setup on Ventura because a Lock Screen panel has been added to Settings.

Sure, here it is.

And note that I have my Finder Preferences set so that the Macintosh HD does not show on my Desktop, but it is still listed here.

Thanks Ira, ok, not show for me, I'll email them ask. Also new password protected volume had a problem ejecting, while DU ejected it fine.. so maybe not so robust? as DU?

Darn Joe, did not understand a word of that second paragraph, way over head.

I never check to remember, for what you said, the person comes in room -- not way going to that - private stuff why take chance on that?.
Now you wrote, some qualifications on that being negated, but convoluted, did not get that at all.

Again though: No issue with sparse on that... but ask: prefer apfs volume as more stabile? Why sparse not as good again? Is this really a must do? Sorry, may be impossible in forum to understand what wrote out remembering, but do this to forget.... complex stuff... even to know trying to say.

It is definitely NOT A MUST-DO. It is at best a recommendation. If you are not comfortable with it, then forget it.

Ok , just that one nuisance of reboot, and having the pesty password box come up.. If you said something inherently better apfs...one level up something like that... or maybe Sparse will be eliminated soon/ not supported?. Could live with apfs password protected, if superior.

I hope someone can prove me wrong!

There's one loophole in your scheme, namely that if you bring your Mac in for service, there's no way to lock your keychain.

Keychain Access used to offer us an option to have different Admin and keychain passwords, but it disappeared, unannounced and leaving much confusion in the wake of its disappearance, lots of years ago.

In recent years, Keychain Access > File has offered us options to lock our "login" and "Local Items" keychains, but in my experience, they've invariably been greyed out.

Any ideas?

What loophole? The technician at the Apple Store will never ask for your account password, nor should you ever give it to them. This denies them access to your keychain, KeePass, or password-protected files or volumes. All you have to do is deactivate automatic login — it is already deactivated if the boot drive is encrypted — and either activate the guest account or create a temporary user account for their use.

The logon process is not on the boot volume (Macintosh HD), it is on the Preboot volume. So, even in the case where the boot drive is encrypted, the only password they need is the boot drive password. But unless that is the same as the account password, they still cannot access the user's keychain, KeePass, or password protected volumes. If the boot drive password is in your keychain, it unlocks automatically when you log on your account, and the log on only requires the account password (or the presence of your unlocked Apple Watch). You will need the boot volume password any time you boot to the Recovery drive. (note: YMMV on an Intel Mac)

I very clearly remember being asked for my password, but it was a bunch of years ago, and I'm not certain whether it was at an Apple Store, 3rd party repair facility, or both.

Encryption or disabling/changing automatic login is, of course, the answer, and thinking about it, Apple is seriously remiss in not not making a point about protecting your passwords, same as they do about backing up your data, when you bring your Mac in for service. I wonder what percentage of Macs left for service are vulnerable to password theft? (I brought this subject up with an AppleCare tech once, and he didn't even think of the obvious answer.)

(Rhetorical) Why on Earth does Keychain Access show options to lock your keychains when, to the best of my knowledge, they've NEVER worked?

I can't vouch for your Apple store, but if memory serves I have been asked to enter my password while I was sitting at the Genius Bar, and I have been asked to create a temporary account before sending a MacBook to Austin for second or third level repairs, but I have never been asked for my password at any Apple Store in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. It should also be pointed out security has been significanty enhanced in Monterey and Ventura and apparently on Macs with Apple Silicon.


I was once called and asked if I had a good backup or did I want to pay an additional charge not covered by AppleCare because Apple was going to erase or replace my drive, but I was assured that the restoration would be a bit for bit copy (akin to the clone utility used in CCC?) so they would not actually open or read anything.


I vaguely remember those from OS X and they made sense at the time, because of the way Keychain worked. But keychain functionality has changed significantly since then and If those options still exist in macOS 12.5 (Monterey) or macOS 13.0 (Ventura), I can't find them.

It would be nice if it were the case, but I guess we can't expect every "Genius" in every Apple Store to be equally well educated and fastidious.

There really shouldn't be any, but...

Here they are.