Try Disk Utility first. If that doesn't solve things, you can reinstall the OS. The software is downloaded from Apple and installed automatically; no disks were provided nor needed for Mountain Lion.

Try Disk Utility first. If that doesn't solve things, you can reinstall the OS. The software is downloaded from Apple and installed automatically; no disks were provided nor needed for Mountain Lion.

Shame on both of us, Jon, for forgetting to advise Rita to rerun "Repair Disk" until she got either an "all clear" or a persistent, uncorrectable error.

Try Disk Utility first. If that doesn't solve things, you can reinstall the OS. The software is downloaded from Apple and installed automatically; no disks were provided nor needed for Mountain Lion.

Do you have a heavy-duty utility like Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, or Drive Genius? They are more powerful than Disk Utility.

I can't give a definitive answer, but if the problem can be fixed, one of those utilities is more likely to fix it than Disk Utility. In particular, I'm a fan of Disk Warrior.

Do you have a heavy-duty utility like Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, or Drive Genius? They are more powerful than Disk Utility.

No. Do you think that would make a difference at this point? That sounded facetious, but I didn't mean it that way.

I can't give a definitive answer, but if the problem can be fixed, one of those utilities is more likely to fix it than Disk Utility. In particular, I'm a fan of Disk Warrior.

Speaking from personal experience, a few years ago my daughter did something really bad to her MacBook. I have no idea what she did but it ended up with her machine grinding away for at least 24 hours and no apparent advance.

Although it sounded to me like there was no hope, I asked her to shut the machine off until I could come over with Disk Warrior. It took Disk Warrior about two hours but, in the end, her machine was back to working as normal.

Whether you were to go for Tech Tool Pro or Disk Warrior, it seems to me you're going to have to decide if you want to gamble 100 bucks that might keep you from spending a couple of grand.

I shut my computer down every night. Should I keep it on to prevent having to go to Disk Utility again? Or if I shut it down without ejecting the external drive, will be up and running tomorrow?

A normal shutdown automatically unmounts all disks safely. You can, if you like, go to System Preferences > Startup Disk and select the external as your default. When you restart, it will automatically start from that disk.

It has already ben mentioned, but if you haven't run Disk Utility > First Aid a second time it is worth trying. DU has never been any great shakes at volume repair, but sometimes a second or even third pass will finally clear up an otherwise implacable error.

FWIW, my advice would be, if you are looking for an excuse to get a new MacBook, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, this is the best excuse you are likely to get. If not the ~$100 cost of Diskwarrior, TechTool Pro, or Drive Genius would cost is a LOT cheaper than a new Mac but there is no guarantee that any one of those will fix the problem. Of those three DiskWarrior has arguably the best reputation for repairing volume errors, but TechTool Pro will run a surface scan and provides detailed S.M.A.R.T. data reports which are far and away the best means of identifying impending drive hardware failure.

If you're in New York City you're up way past your bedtime go to bed. Zzzzz

I live backwards, Rita; unless it's a beach day, I sleep 'til 5 PM and stay up all night...been like that for 60 years since all the way back in high school when I realized that the world didn't end when my parents went to sleep. [/color] Well, you live in the city that never sleeps so that can happen. I live where the crickets and frogs start in around bedtime and all the stores and most of the restaurants are closed by 10 p.m. Good thing I'm not a night owl!! [color:#FF0000]

WHY IS MY COLOR CODING SHOWING UP? WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

I'm going to recommend that you stick with your Mid 2012 MBP.

This screenshot is a side-by side of Mactracker's enumeration of the specs of your current MBP and the October 2016 model you're considering. (You can double-check that I've got your Mac right by navigating to /Applications/Utilities/System Information > Hardware Overview and verifying that its Model Identifier is MacBookPro9,2.)

The critical piece of info is the October 2016 "Discontinued" date for your MBP, which, translated into simple english, means that you've essentially got a new machine. (The Apple Refurbished Store is currently selling YOUR EXACT MBP [one of which I recently advised my daughter to buy, by the way]. $829 = VERY .)

[/color] I get what you're saying and I still want to keep my MBP but since my iBook bit the dust (I mean really bit the dust more than my MBP) I need a backup so my old MPB will be just that. I really dislike using my iPhone for surfing. It's just so limited compared to using the computer, at least in my view. I'm no teenager.[color:#FF0000]

Macs go "Vintage" five years after they're discontinued, at which point Apple will no longer service or supply parts for them, but since your MBP was first discontinued in October 2016 (By comparison, its 15" brother was discontinued in October 2013.), it will be "Supported" until October 2021 and be able to benefit from at least several future macOS upGRADES.

I don't think the newer machine offers any necessary for you performance upgrades, and even though it's significantly lighter than your current one (which I don't think is important to you), it's at the cost of a disc drive, a number of useful ports, and assorted other features. (Found it!)

[/color] I've looked at the specs and did some comparing and I still want a MBP. I'm not so happy about losing a HD to a 125 gig SSD but they have more RAM than I am used to and after having my MBP for over 5 years I am yet to use over 50 gigs of HD. I think I said somewhere else that I used only 400+. That was an error. I have over 400+ Gigs free'd up. I found out I can live without a superdrive as I rarely used it. I think the new MBP (see link below) still has a headset input and 3.0 USB ports along with the Thunderbolts and HDMI port. MBP[color:#FF0000]

I'll stick with my suggestion that you get your MBP to a Genius Bar and have it diagnosed...before you buy a new Mac or even spend $100 on DiskWarrior.

I don't see anything in any of your posts that convinces me that you actually NEED a new Mac, and unless you're hot to spend money, I say stick with what you've got. [/color] The only reason I feel I need a new computer is that now I won't have a backup and that's important to me.[color:#FF0000]

You've lucked into the Mac that's been blessed with perhaps the longest life Apple has ever bestowed on a machine. Why waste it?

(If you'r really desperate to spend a few bucks, I think you ought to upgrade your RAM as suggested by tacit in another thread and upgrade your HDD to an SSD [assuming that the Genius resurrects you MBP]; I'll bet that you'll be immensely pleased with the outcome.)

FYI Apple's Vintage policy and current list of vintage and obsolete products world wide.

I won't argue with Artie's opinion. It is inarguably valid from his point of view and that of many others who are perhaps just on the backside of the standard distribution curve of Mac users.

My viewpoint is from the bleeding edge of that same standard distribution curve and there are a lot more who hold Artie's viewpoint than hold mine. From my bleeding edge viewpoint the Touchbar feature is a significant new feature that like many others is hard to grasp until you have actually used it. Although there was a lot of initial criticism of Apple's choice of the Thunderbolt 3 port and grumbling abut external converters for backward compatibility with older standards, in actual practice it has proven to be no big deal. Now we have to wait for the PC builders to catch up again — but by the time they do Apple will have gone on to the next new I/O port standard.

I think I am hearing you say you want a new computer and, if that is the case, then no amount of backing and filling, upgrading, or enhancing your current Macbook Pro is likely to ever satisfy you. At least it has never satisfied me in my 40+ years of experience in personal computing. (OMG — I wish I hadn't added all those years up, it makes me feel old 👴🏻)

LET ME REITERATE:: I wouldn't buy anything for a Mac until after the WWDC (June 5 - 9, 2017). There are potential announcements/changes that could render even the various volume repair utilities in need of a complete rewrite (in fact many of their standard optimization routines can actually reduce the lifespan of SSDs. There are unlikely to be an huge changes announced for the MacBook Pro as it is the most recently ungraded model line, but it is likely they will be refreshed with kaby lake model processors in the third quarter time frame. Those would offer a bit more speed and longer battery life and just might might be worth waiting for.

Perhaps Which Mac should you buy? will have something useful.

WHY IS MY COLOR CODING SHOWING UP? WHAT DID I DO WRONG?

You typed {color:#FF0000][/color] at both the beginning and end of what you wanted colored.

Since all you need to type is {color:#FF0000] at the beginning and [/color] at the end, the leading [/color] and trailing{color:#FF0000]show up as extraneous text, like so:

[/color] Well, you live in the city that never sleeps so that can happen. I live where the crickets and frogs start in around bedtime and all the stores and most of the restaurants are closed by 10 p.m. Good thing I'm not a night owl!! [color:#FF0000]

I think you'll see what I mean if you look at this post by hitting "Quote".

(I had to substitute { for [ in several places to get this post straight.)

More later.

{color:#FF0000]Good Morning, Artie!! I just used the color icon in the tool bar. There are no instructions that I could see so I expected it to work with just the color in front. But the color continued on into what you said in the email so I ended what I said with the color icon again. I'll try it your way here.{color/] Well, that didn't work!

You typed [/color] at both the beginning and end of what you wanted colored.

Since all you need to type is [color:#FF0000] at the beginning and at the end, the leading [/color] and trailing show up as extraneous text, like so:

[color:#FF0000] Well, you live in the city that never sleeps so that can happen. I live where the crickets and frogs start in around bedtime and all the stores and most of the restaurants are closed by 10 p.m. Good thing I'm not a night owl!! [/color]

I think you'll see what I mean if you look at [color:#FF0000]this post by hitting "Quote".

(I had to substitute { for [ in several places to get this post straight.)

More later.

You typed {color:#FF0000][/color] at both the beginning and end of what you wanted colored.

Since all you need to type is {color:#FF0000] at the beginning and [/color] at the end, the leading [/color] and trailing{color:#FF0000]show up as extraneous text, like so:

[/color] Well, you live in the city that never sleeps so that can happen. I live where the crickets and frogs start in around bedtime and all the stores and most of the restaurants are closed by 10 p.m. Good thing I'm not a night owl!! [color:#FF0000]

I think you'll see what I mean if you look at this post by hitting "Quote".

(I had to substitute { for [ in several places to get this post straight.)

More later.

And good evening to you, Rita.

It didn't work because you used { instead of [, so the software didn't recognize the tags. (I substituted { for [ to "fool" the software, because it would have displayed red text in all sorts of weird places otherwise.)

Here's what my earlier post would have looked like if I hadn't done the substitution:


Confusing as all get-out, huh? Yep!! I give up![b][/b]

After you hit the "Color" icon you insert your text between the two bracketed items...here; you don't hit it at the beginning and end as you've been doing. (Hit "Quote", again and look at how I typed here.

Nope... Green and Yep!! I give up!

The correct coding is

Which renders as insert text here

The correct coding is

Which renders as insert text here

OK, trying again. This should be green

Yay!!

I think you meant Yay!

You forgot to say "Yay!" in bold face.

I think I am hearing you say you want a new computer and, if that is the case, then no amount of backing and filling, upgrading, or enhancing your current Macbook Pro is likely to ever satisfy you.

From my bleeding edge viewpoint the Touch Bar feature is a significant new feature that like many others is hard to grasp until you have actually used it.

...something that is tried and true more than brand new but not real old.

...I still want to keep my MBP but since my iBook bit the dust (I mean really bit the dust more than my MBP) I need a backup so my old MPB will be just that.

When the conference happens in June and they maybe feature new macs, does that mean they will be available then or at some future date?

...something that is tried and true more than brand new but not real old.

When the conference happens in June and they maybe feature new macs, does that mean they will be available then or at some future date?

When the conference happens in June and they maybe feature new macs, does that mean they will be available then or at some future date?


I don't think I want to wait that long. The link I sent you from LA Computer Company seems to have the most bells and whistles by which I mean inlines than any new ones. I wouldn't have to have the hemorrhoid look by attaching so many adaptors. Are dongles the same as adaptors? It's also eligible for AppleCare since the original warranty is still good until 1/18.

The MBP to which you linked is a MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015), and yes, its 2 x USB 3.0 ports and combined headphone/line in jack, etc, provide functionality that's missing from later models. (By definition, a dongle is either a software unlocking or Internet connectivity device, but I think the word has fallen into the vernacular as [almost?] anything [other than a cable, of course] that plugs into a USB, FireWire, or Thunderbolt port, so under that definition, an adaptor is a dongle.) OK, thanks.

I don't like the Force Touch trackpad one little bit, but that's personal preference related to my usage habits. Why don't you like it? I read where you can control the pressure feel of it in sys prefs I think. I'm a little concerned about it, too but they say you can get used to it.

Personally, I'd like to know why this open box MBP is available...buyer changed mind or out of the box defective. Good question. I just emailed the store owner to find out. If all the new Macs are coming with less and less inlines, then I definitely want an older one like this.

Apple hasn't got any similar MBPs listed in the Certified Refurbished Store at the moment, but I'd be curious to see their prices when they come up.

I'm not sure why they are not in the Apple website but lots of places are selling them including New Egg and Amazon. I really don't think there is hope for it and it's so old I am just going to toss it. Want it?

Funny that early on you expressed disappointment at having to replace the "only 5 year[s] old" MBP, and now you seem to be hell-bent to buy a new one.

I think I am hearing you say you want a new computer and, if that is the case, then no amount of backing and filling, upgrading, or enhancing your current Macbook Pro is likely to ever satisfy you. At least it has never satisfied me in my 40+ years of experience in personal computing. (OMG — I wish I hadn't added all those years up, it makes me feel old 👴🏻)

To me it is typical of the human condition. Thus my previous comment…
I thank God for our differences.

|I found out that the reason the Macbook Pro I am looking at is an open box and returned so soon is b/c the person who bought it wanted a touch bar instead so returned it to the shop for a different model.

Omnibus response...

Thanks, but no thanks. Since the iBook seems to be bricked, you might pile some dirt on the keyboard and plant ivy.

Keeping stuff together...


Forever the sceptic, I don't buy that.

Had the original purchaser bought the 2016 model I could see the mind change and upgrade, but since se went for the $200 cheaper 2015 model in the first place, I'll scratch my head. Is that because the Touch Bar wasn't available back then anyway?

At any rate, the same MBP is available from the Apple Refurbished Store for $1,099 as I type.Yeah, but the refurbished one is not eligible for AppleCare which I like. Also, the one I was looking at is eligible. So should something major go wrong, I can get it fixed or replaced for free, depending on his bad it might be.

And last, but not least, back to square one...

If these steps can be followed, they should get your MBP working with no need for your external drive:

1. Boot from your external.
2. Navigate to Disk Utility.
3. If it appears in DU's sidebar, select your MBP's "Macintosh Hard Drive" (or whatever it's called). (Don't select the top line, i.e. the HDD, itself, but the one immediately below it.) (*)
4. Click on the "Erase" tab.
5. If you're offered options, select "Write all zeros".
6. Let 'er rip, and be prepared to wait a while.
7. Since you've got a bootable external, I assume that you've got a cloning app, so now clone your external back to your MBP.
8. I've got SuperDuper if that's what you mean but I don't know how to get it back onto my MBP just back onto the external drive. I'm willing to try since I can't get to my internal drive anyway. If Steve Jobs is smiling up on Olympus, the MBP should now be good to go on its own.

(*) Erasing only your OS X volume, not your entire HDD, will preserve your recovery partition.

I'm still fearful of doing what you said with my SuperDuper because I'm not completely sure what to do. I usually plug it in and then the three partitions show up and I click Erase and then it erases the one partition I choose and then puts back all the info from the hard drive. I really don't know how to go backwards from that to go the other way.

Reformatting your posts is insanely difficult, so I'll respond thusly this time...

1. artie: Had the original purchaser bought the 2016 model I could see the mind change and upgrade, but since se went for the $200 cheaper 2015 model in the first place, I'll scratch my head.

Rita: Is that because the Touch Bar wasn't available back then anyway?

Yep! The Touch Bar was first introduced in October 2016, so an upgrade from the 2016 non-TB to the TB would make some sense, while an upgrade from the 2015 non-TB to the 2016 TB doesn't...in my eyes anyhow.

2. artie: At any rate, the same MBP is available from the Apple Refurbished Store for $1,099 as I type.

Rita: Yeah, but the refurbished one is not eligible for AppleCare which I like.

That's incorrect! All Apple refurbs come with their standard one year warrantee and are eligible for AppleCare...same as their new machines.

3. Rita: I've got SuperDuper if that's what you mean but I don't know how to get it back onto my MBP just back onto the external drive. I'm willing to try since I can't get to my internal drive anyway.

I've never seen the SuperDuper! GUI, but I imagine it's similar to that of Carbon Copy Cloner, which I'm running.

Presumably, you created a SD! task that clones from your internal HDD to your external, so look at what you did, and create a new, reversed task, i.e. treat your external as your source and your internal as your destination.

This is the text of first question or item you are responding to

This is the text of second question or item you are responding to

This is the text of third question or item you are responding to

Replying between the lines is useful but may I suggest a different format that will make the replies easier to read and follow at the expense of a bit more work.


That appears as...

Your response to the first item goes here

Your response to the second item goes here

Your response to the third item goes here.

NOTE: each item being responded to has both a beginning and ending "Quote" tag which places the item in its own unique quote box. Your responses are outside of the quote boxes so that clearly separates question/item and response.

I looked at the Apple Store refurbished models per your link and I found one right below the $1099 one for $1189 and it has twice the SSD space! I am also looking forward to bossing Siri around.

I am thinking you probably tried this to make the track pad more to your liking but I will quote it anyway from what I found online: Use your Force Touch trackpad more like a traditional trackpad, you can easily do that too. And if you later change your mind, you can turn it right back on. Launch System Preferences. Click on Trackpad. Uncheck Force Click and haptic feedback to disable.

I'm still fearful of doing what you said with my SuperDuper because I'm not completely sure what to do. I usually plug it in and then the three partitions show up and I click Erase and then it erases the one partition I choose and then puts back all the info from the hard drive. I really don't know how to go backwards from that to go the other way.

I thought that is what I was doing. I think I will just answer all from the top like this from now on.

The machines in the Refurbished Store come and go...sometimes pretty quickly, so when you see what you like, it's best to jump on it unless you don't mind waiting around for the next one, which may not come up for days...even weeks. (All else aside, the MBP from Apple will have about 5 months more warrantee time than the one from the other guy.)

You'll never catch me talking to Siri unless I'm locked away in solitary.'


Thanks for posting that, but that's the way I"ve been running.

I guess I"m just stuck with the Force Touch's quirks and eccentricities.


You've pretty much answered you own question.

Launch SD!, click "Erase", choose "Macintosh Hard Drive", and SD! will erase it and clone over the data from "the hard drive", i.e. your external.

By the way, what are the three volumes that show up...Macintosh Hard Drive, Recovery Partition, and your external?

Note: I advise your doing the DU erase despite the fact that SD! does its own; the DU erase will leave you with a cleaner slate.

My three partitions are Mavericks, Mt. Lion and Misc

We still aren't exactly communicating about the external drive. Don't get exasperated. I am just gonna leave it alone and work off the external drive any time I need my old MBP since I can't get a grip on what you are saying exactly unless you want to say it again and number the steps!.

So even after you changed the track pad back to "normal" you still don't like it? Yikes for me.

OK. Thanks for doing the d/l, etc. I have Mavericks and Mt. Lion on my external drive. I have Mavericks on my internal drive. I can't remember if I partitioned my internal HD to include Mt. Lion but I think so, I just never use it. The miscellaneous partition is empty. I probably just named it that until I put something in it. It's been awhile.

OK, I'll assume that you still want Mavericks on your internal HDD.

If you partitioned your internal to include Mt. Lion the partition would appear in SuperDuper!'s GUI, and since it doesn't, you probably didn't.

I'll work on this later.

I thought that if Mt. Lion was on SuperDuper that meant it was also on my hard drive since that's how I got it onto my external drive in the first place just like Mavericks.

I'll guess that you first cloned Mt. Lion to a partition on your external, then you installed Mavericks, which overwrote Mt. Lion on your internal, i.e. your Mt. Lion volume morphed into your Mavericks volume, and finally, you cloned Mavericks to another partition on your external, which could explain, but isn't necessarily why you've got Mt. Lion and Mavericks on your external, but only Mavericks on your internal.

OK, thanks. I can't see all those shots of the D/U very well but I will get something that I can see to do this. (I sure don't like how they've change it. It used to be simpler.) I will keep this info until I buy my new Mac because I could screw it up and end up with another brick!!

I guess I must have done all you said because you're right, I can't find Mt. Lion on my HD, just my external drive. So complicated. I thought I had Mt. Lion on my HD and cloned it to SD and partitioned my HD so I could go back to it if I didn't like Mavericks which is also on my HD. OH well. Plus, just now I went to spotlight and pulled up D/U. Three things showed up: Mavericks which worked, Machintosh HD which worked (meaning I could go to d/u when clicking on it) and Mountain Lion which, when I clicked on it brought up this error message: "You can't use this version of the app D/U with this version of OS. You have d/u app 13." What? Mavericks and Mt. Lion DO show up in S/D. I see them right on my desktop as I am typing.

As I said earlier, every volume on every drive shows up in SD!'s pane, so if it ain't there, you ain't got it.

OK, here is a visual 1, 2, 3.

The shot of Disk Utility is to make sure you understand to erase not the top item, but the one immediately beneath it on your internal drive. (I guess it will be named "Mavericks", but it may be "Macintosh Hard Drive", "Untitled"...whatever.) Note that the "Erase" pane gives you the option to change the volume's name, so if you like, you can change it to something uniquely recognizable for the moment; you can always rename it later.

The top SD! shot shows your sources, and as you can see, each one's location is identified by its icon...Mac HD for internal volumes and USB for externals in my instance...maybe FireWire in yours.

Select "Mavericks" on your external as your source.

The middle shot shows your destinations, with their locations also identifiable by their icons.

Select "Edgar" (the volume you just renamed) on your internal as your destination.

The bottom shot shows something similar to what you should see (unless you external is FireWire, in which case you'll see a FW icon on the left).

Click on "Copy Now".

After SD! has done its thing, navigate to System Prefs > Startup Disk and select "Edgar".

Shut down your MBP.

Disconnect your external.

Start up your MBP.

If all went according to plan, your MBP should start up in Mavericks.

I don't know if you've been following, or are even aware of, Why does a laptop die?, but - I know you're past your iBook (...love your new sig, by the way ); this is in the interest of science. - extrapolating from tacit's post, I'm going to ask you to yank your iBook's battery and try to start up without replacing it. (Think positively: if it works, you'll have a backup for your backup until you get a new machine. )

Thanks.

I read the thread. Interesting. So I yanked the battery but it still won't start up. I know the power cord is good because as I plug it in, sparks fly from the wall plug.

👺 You should NOT be getting sparks when you pug in a properly functioning power supply. Your issue may be a malfunctioning power supply which in turn is failing to charge the battery. It could also be a bad wall plug.

👺 You should NOT be getting sparks when you pug in a properly functioning power supply. Your issue may be a malfunctioning power supply which in turn is failing to charge the battery. It could also be a bad wall plug.

In case you're unaware of it, you should ALWAYS plug you power adaptor into the wall BEFORE you plug it into your Mac.

Really? I've never heard that. But it is probably a bad adapter from my little test.

Really? I've never heard that. But it is probably a bad adapter from my little test.

I'll guess that you first cloned Mt. Lion to a partition on your external, then you installed Mavericks, which overwrote Mt. Lion on your internal, i.e. your Mt. Lion volume morphed into your Mavericks volume, and finally, you cloned Mavericks to another partition on your external, which could explain, but isn't necessarily why you've got Mt. Lion and Mavericks on your external, but only Mavericks on your internal.

As I said earlier, every volume on every drive shows up in SD!'s pane, so if it ain't there, you ain't got it.

OK, here is a visual 1, 2, 3.

The shot of Disk Utility is to make sure you understand to erase not the top item, but the one immediately beneath it on your internal drive. (I guess it will be named "Mavericks", but it may be "Macintosh Hard Drive", "Untitled"...whatever.) Note that the "Erase" pane gives you the option to change the volume's name, so if you like, you can change it to something uniquely recognizable for the moment; you can always rename it later.

The top SD! shot shows your sources, and as you can see, each one's location is identified by its icon...Mac HD for internal volumes and USB for externals in my instance...maybe FireWire in yours.

Select "Mavericks" on your external as your source.

The middle shot shows your destinations, with their locations also identifiable by their icons.

Select "Edgar" (the volume you just renamed) on your internal as your destination.

The bottom shot shows something similar to what you should see (unless you external is FireWire, in which case you'll see a FW icon on the left).

Click on "Copy Now".

After SD! has done its thing, navigate to System Prefs > Startup Disk and select "Edgar".

Shut down your MBP.

Disconnect your external.

Start up your MBP.

If all went according to plan, your MBP should start up in Mavericks.

Since I am a little nervous about erasing Mavericks from my external HD before I put it back onto my internal HD with the steps you gave me, here is what I am thinking:

(I have no real experience with Time Machine so I'm not clear how to do this)

Would it make sense for me to back up my HD (actually my external hard drive if that makes sense) with a Time Machine backup on my third partition called Misc that already exists and is empty? Then I could try to restore my internal HD from that copy and not worry if it doesn't work because I still have my Mavericks partition to use should something go haywire.

Also, I went to T/M and chose "options". A window came up that said "exclude these items (Mt. Lion and Misc) from backups." Nowhere does it even mention Mavericks which I am using as my start up drive.

So, I'm not sure what steps I take to B/U my ext. HD with T/M onto the misc. partition so I can try to restore it to my HD.

I am not doing this until I get my new computer but I want to be prepared. I am dreading learning a new OS which is maybe why I haven't ordered it yet.

Your opening statement doesn't compute; if you erase Mavericks from your external HD before you put it back onto your internal HD you'll have nothing to put back.

It never hurts to have another backup, so TM (Is your destination partition sufficiently large?) is a good idea; a TM restoration may even be a more desirable way to get Mavericks back onto your old MBP's internal HD than cloning. (I still recommend erasing the HD first.) But I'm not the guy from whom you want to get TM assistance; I haven't even got it on my MBP. (If nobody picks up on this thread you can start a new one.)

And then again, you can forego the Mavericks restoration and restore or clone Sierra to your old MBP after you've got your new one up, migrated, and running.

Update: Oh on my internal drive, not external. But I only have an external drive at this point.

Earlier to said erase the mavericks part of my hard drive:

Did I misunderstand again?

Also, I thought TM came on all Macs.

No misunderstanding; my instructions stand. I was just making certain that you weren't confused and tracked into something self-destructive.

Correct, TM does come on all Macs, but I trash it, because I clean everything I"ve got no intention of using out of my Apps folder. (I can always restore it with Pacifist if the need arises.)

Oh, I'm confused. I will muddle through somehow.

I reported it but it's still happening. For some reason I couldn't find his post directly by using search.

Anyway, I can always try that. When I do it, I will ask for help.

Thanks, as always.

Rita



When the time comes, we'll discuss what's best for you to do, and I"ll walk you through it...no need for muddling.

Thanks, Artie. I know you tried to walk me through but I still had questions. Nothing is very straightforward to me.

Joemike suggested cloning Mavericks over to my empty miscellaneous partition and use that. That sounds like a plan. Also, cloning Sierra when I get my new computer and using that in my backup computer. I couldn't get back to him because this kept coming up: There was a problem looking up this post in our database. I reported it but it's still happening. For some reason I couldn't find his post directly by using search.

Anyway, I can always try that. When I do it, I will ask for help.

Thanks, as always.

Rita

Any time I"ve seen that "There was a problem...." message it has meant that the post in question was deleted.

Stop agonizing; when the time comes, we'll figure it all out.

What connections has your external drive got...FireWire, USB, both? I ask because you need to think about how you're going to do your migration, and then, after you've migrated you info to your new MBP you can give some thought to which OSs you want to keep, and where.

And as for joemike's "cloning Sierra when I get my new computer and using that in my backup computer", a few posts back I suggested "And then again, you can forego the Mavericks restoration and restore or clone Sierra to your old MBP after you've got your new one up, migrated, and running."

By the way, I've been ignoring your post a while back in which you asked a bunch of questions because it seemed pointless to answer before you're ready to proceed...too far before the fact.

My Ex. Drive is plugged into my USB 3.0 port. I don't think it works with FireWire. Different end, right?

I've made the mistake of reading the FTM emails only sometimes and then found out they don't always contained the whole post, so I stopped doing that.

At the risk of sounding sexist, your ignoring my posts because it's too early to deal with it is such a guy thing!! But thanks for explaining silence on some issues. I AM agonizing and wish I knew so much more and didn't have to ask all the time, even after doing my research first. And when explanations don't make sense to me I feel like a dunce.

1. USB and FireWire are completely different protocols (right word?) that use unmistakably different connection ports, and since your external connects via USB you won't have to buy a FireWire to USB adaptor to go along with a new MBP.

2. I read every post at FTM, so I don't bother with emails, but I used to get them back in the MFIF (same software) days, and I stopped, because they came as "quotes", i.e. including all the [xxx] formatting, and were virtually impossible to read.

3. At the risk of sounding equally sexist, then, I'll say that lack of pragmatism and focus must, accordingly, be girl things.

I can't say that you're putting the cart before the horse, because there is no horse; you can't decide which MBP you want or from whom you want to buy it, much less bring yourself to order it, and you're totally distracting yourself from the business at hand by agonizing over what you're going to do with your current MBP and external once you've got it, not to mention that waaay deep down inside you maaay even be dealing with the very strong possibility that there's probably nothing wrong with your current MBP that necessitates your spending ~$1000 for a new one.

Do yourself a favor, and either get a new MBP or try to resuscitate your current one, put off worrying about anything else until you've got a fully functional machine one way or the other, and when you're past that issue you'll be far better able to focus on others.

Sorry; it's a bartender thing.

Oh, and never forget that we're all here to help and never judge anybody poorly for wanting to learn and asking intelligent questions in the process.

After reading all kinds of stuff about "new" no more warrantied macs, (2015 models for example) and refurbished macs, I guess I will go the refurbished way on Apple. Now I need to just quit being cheap and spring for the $929 before it goes away. Do you happen to know how often they discount refurbished Macs? Will the next discount be way down the road?

• FWIW you have IMO made a good decision 👍👍👍
• The prices of factory refurbished Macs are what they are and seldom, if ever, discounted 👎
• You have heard of the law of supply and demand? Apple is unlikely to discount the refurbished prices unless they find themselves overstocked and by far the most common condition for a specific model refurbished Mac is "out of stock". 0️⃣

Anyway, there is definitely something wrong with my Mac, even using the external drive, it's acting wonky now and then. So, I need a new one and will use this as a backup.

You read every post? Wow, that must be time consuming!

After reading all kinds of stuff about "new" no more warrantied macs, (2015 models for example) and refurbished macs, I guess I will go the refurbished way on Apple. Now I need to just quit being cheap and spring for the $929 before it goes away. Do you happen to know how often they discount refurbished Macs? Will the next discount be way down the road?

Thanks, Artie.

Can you be more specific than "wonky"?

If you've never run Apple Hardware Test, you ought to consider running the extended version.

On the other hand, though, chances are that it's no more than your clone having the same issues that were causing your internal to beachball.

Reading every post doesn't take all that much time; composing responses is what eats up my time. At MFIF it took me considerably more time to deal with only the OS X posts, so much so, in fact, that I never looked at any of the other forums.

Wise decision to buy a refurb from Apple, but the price of the discontinued 2012's never varied from $929, and I wouldn't hold my breath for the price of the 2015s to do any differently; Apple's refurb price is their price, same as their current model prices.

It sounds like you've decided on the 128 GB model, and you can expect those to be around for a while, almost continuously at first, but erratically and more erratically as time goes by, because it's the stock model. The configured models, the 256 GB model, for instance, turn up erratically from the get-go, so if you want one of those you should probably act quickly.

I guess FTM was out for awhile. I couldn't get on and neither could anyone else I asked to try it.

By wonky I mean, besides slow and spinning beach ball too often, it's started to get harder to wake up just the screen from sleep. It wanted to stay black. That's really motivating me.

I did the hardware test, extended, and all is well. I've done it twice within a few weeks and no difference.

I got an email from LA Computers and the Applecare is, for sure, $189 for the Macbook Pro so I will get Applecare from there and my computer from Apple Refurbished Store.

I've been watching for my model with the increased SSD but I don't want to pay $175 more so I will probably just go with the 128. It's in the "bag" now just waiting for me to push the button.

I DID IT! Just ordered my Macbook Pro! I could barely wake up the Mac so I got motivated and hit the button. I just read where if the price changes within 14 days I can get a refund for the difference. I highly doubt that will happen, but it's good to know.

By wonky I mean, besides slow and spinning beach ball too often, it's started to get harder to wake up just the screen from sleep. It wanted to stay black. That's really motivating me.

I did the hardware test, extended, and all is well. I've done it twice within a few weeks and no difference.

I've got no idea what's up with that; I don't recall running across those symptoms before.

After you've got your new MBP up and running, we can hopefully get both your old MBP and your external running as expected, and with no data loss.

Are you having problems getting into FTM? It started yesterday when I couldn't get in at all. Today it hangs up. I thought it was my computer but my friends and even my ISP are having problems with it.

The FTM server was having issues yesterday. It started out with UBB being unable to contact the database server and it was downhill from there.

I hope it's nothing that can't be taken care of. Do they need donations?

Thanks for the kind offer but we don't own or operate the server we just rent hosting services from them. So repairs are their responsibility. FTM is a really really low (more like no) budget operation.

Are you having problems getting into FTM? It started yesterday when I couldn't get in at all. Today it hangs up. I thought it was my computer but my friends and even my ISP are having problems with it.

Also, as far as wonkie, I can hardly ever send mail out of my outbox without shutting down mail and reopening it first. I have rebuilt my mailboxes but that doesn't do much, maybe temporarily. Hopefully, that will change with Sierra.

Yes, I really want to fix what's wrong with my MBP here. Thanks for being willing to help, even though I don't always get what you're saying. If that happens, I will ask you to clarify a step I don't understand. I looked for you on other forums yesterday just to tell you I couldn't get on FTM but no luck.

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