I installed 10.5.8 via Software Update and it went without a hitch. As often happens, there was a second restart. So far, so good.

Waiting for reports before upgrading my netbook, but am doing my G5 straight away. Man, combo updates have grown to CD size...

They will be smaller in Snow Leopard, but then so will the entire OS.

Jon,

Did you notice any updated apps or operational consequences? Speed improvements, over the hood benefits, that sort of thing?

For information on the content of 10.5.8 see this Apple Knowledge Base article. For the security enhancements see this article. The most immediately obvious change is the update to Safari 4.0.2.

That happens only if you had not previously updated to version 4.0.2. I had so there was no change in that regard.

So far, I haven't noticed any changes but I haven't been using it for more than a few hours (interrupted by a fine supper and a bottle of Chateau Domaine de Chevalier 2003). After that, everything seems good!

nessuk: not replying to anybody, because I'd have to pick between several that would be appropriate Edit: I used the New Reply button, but my post says Re: jchuzi, the previous poster. So, the "habit" lamented elsewhere is hard to break.

Are you guys saying that if I update to 10.5.8 I will automatically get Safari 4.0.2 along with it? (I'm still using Safari 3.whatever.)

What if someone wanted to get 10.5.8, but not Safari 4? Just wondering.

I was waiting to test my web-based e-mail site on Safari 4. Just did that moments ago. Seems to be one minor improvement in performance, with no ill effects. I was going to update Safari tonight or tomorrow, but now I will wait until I come back here.

Nope. Your post says Re: jchuzi, the original poster; click on that Re: jchuzi to confirm this.

Yeah, I saw that explanation in the other thread...

So, that makes either the New Reply button or the Reply button in the original post redundant, doesn't it?

Yes, at least with the Combo updater I used. I don't know what the Delta does in this respect, but based on the KB article joemikeb linked to above it looks like it also updates to 4.0.2.

so is 10.6 dropping PPC support?

From what I heard, yes.

This has just given me a thought, inasmuch as does this mean that one will have difficulty "Migration Assistanting" from a PPC to a Snow Leopard Intel??
Or am I just missing the/a point again - I can't get my head 'round it at the moment (still nothing unusual there 'tho?
Regards. Mike

That shouldn't be a problem. Migration Assistant would be running on the Intel machine. It's just copying files from the PPC, not trying to run any programs on it. (And if it's using File Sharing to get at those files, it'll let the PPC continue to use it's own file sharing routines. Migration Assistant doesn't care what software gives it access to the files, as long as it gets access.)

Two things to keep in mind about Migration Assistant:

1. Email is not automatically imported. Make sure you have access to the original email, so you can import it into the new installation of Mail. It is not necessary to export it from the original installation first.

2. Migration Assistant does not support migrating from Panther to Leopard. I hope the PowerPC machines are not still running Panther. There is a work-around, but it requires making two clones of the Panther volume, one to a drive with an Apple Partition Map, and a second clone (a clone of the first clone) to a drive with a GUID partition map. If a retail Leopard installer is used to update the second clone, then Migration Assistant will work to allow migration to a new Macintosh.

> The most immediately obvious change is the update to Safari 4.0.2.

Thanks for mentioning that before I took the leap. (I should *not*, of course, have needed the reminder.)

I installed Safari 4 at the outset, reverted to 3 within minutes of seeing that SnapBack had disappeared, and will neither update nor upgrade to *any* version of OS X in which Safari does not include SnapBack. (Before running A&I to restore Safari 3 I tried to uninstall 4 one piece at a time [to see if it could be done, of course] and wound up with an unbootable system.)

If you update to 10.5.8, it is apparently possible to revert to Safari 3 from Safari 4 (and I remember reading about this at MFIF recently). I did a Google search and came up with this page. There are several posts that give a method that doesn't involve A&I. I have not tried this myself so, if you go for 10.5.8, you're on your own.

I also don't like the lack of Snapback in Safari 4 but I've gotten used to it by opening links in new tabs, making it easy to get back to the original.

Thanks for the link, Jon; it's moot, though, because I won't update/grade until SnapBack snaps back.

Why not write to Apple about this issue? I did it and, if enough people complain, they may restore Snapback in a future update to Safari 4. You can express your sentiments here.

Well, how old is your newest Mac? If you buy another, and snapback is still banished, will you downgrade the OS, or just Safari?

I'm teasing a little, of course, but it could become an issue for you.

ganbustein, MicoMatTech3
Thanks for the replies/advice.
I really shouldn't think so much. It's not good for my "brain".
Regards. Mike

To force Safari to open links in a new tab just open Terminal (/Applications/Utilities/) and type in the following command:

defaults write com.apple.Safari TargetedClicksCreateTabs -bool true

Once you restart Safari, all clicked links will open in a new tab. If you want to reverse the command for some reason, just replace "true" with "false."

Or, you can check the command-click opens a link in a new tab checkbox in Safari's Preferences -> Tabs pane. I have my middle mouse button set to act as a command-click, so it's really simple for me to open links in new tabs.

One advantage of doing it this way is that it's easy to just click instead, in cases in which you don't want to open a new tab.

> You can express your sentiments here.

I did that within minutes of discovering that SnapBack was missing, Jon.

As you know, Apple rarely acknowledges such stuff, so I can only guess what's going on in Cupertino.

> Well, how old is your newest Mac? If you buy another, and snapback is still banished, will you downgrade the OS, or just Safari?

I'm teasing a little, of course, but it could become an issue for you.

My MacBook is only 5 months old, Gregg, so a new one is nowhere in the cards, and, under any circumstances, you're forgetting that a Mac *cannot* be downgraded from its "shipped-with" version of OS X.

As for downgrading Safari, I still have not determined whether that is possible without downgrading OS X at the same time, but this Apple Discussions thread suggests that it can be done. (I may experiment with my backup, but I'm not all that certain that I even need 10.5.8.)

Bottom line is that Apple will be supporting Leopard for a few more years, so I'll live behind the times (as I did until I skipped past Tiger and installed Leopard), if necessary, until I decide that I *must* catch up with the future.

Who knows... I may have to learn to live without SnapBack some day, but for the moment it is such an integral part of my browsing experience that I'm not about to give it up.

Snap-back, command-tab, tabs in the window label and then not, again! I guess we need to get used to change!

Never used 'snap-back' so I don't miss it. Have always opened to links in a new tab, no matter what browser. Changes on those never touched me. However, I really, really liked having an extra line for information in every single web page, not just when one link occupied and entire window! I guess I'll have to get used to seeing the single-windowed page jump down a line when I open that first new tab...

I guess my point is, many of these things are simple Terminal commands for settings already in the app. Why does Apple insist on making them inaccessible to the "masses?!" I dunno.

I don't mind a few changes, but I like choices, even better!

As for reverting to Safari 3, I'd suggest a standard upgrade/update I use for almost every app, Apple or not. Before updating any app, I 'archive' it and as many of its prefs I can find. Then, if the update has bugs that I didn't wait long enough to find out about, it's a fairly simple matter to unarchive the previous version. After several weeks of using the new app, I'll delete the archive to save a little disk space...

Another advantage of this archive method is that sometimes it becomes very hard to find a previous version of some apps (Apple being one of the worst offenders). YMMV.

I'm not quite sure where you're coming down on the question of using Terminal to make adjustments that aren't available in the GUI. Are you saying you don't or won't use Terminal in these cases?

I only ask in case you're not aware that you can force the tab bar always to be present with the

defaults write com.apple.Safari AlwaysShowTabBar 1

command.

...or just go to the View menu and select Show Tab Bar (Shift-Command-T).

> I guess we need to get used to change!

While I've never been averse to change I've also never been an immediate "jumper into the pool."

What mystifies me about this instance of change, though, is *why* SnapBack has been removed; maybe it's a coding thing that's beyond my comprehension, but I don't see any way it was because of lack of interest...certainly not because of complaints!

I am going to express a sentiment here, admittedly off topic, but this thread seems to have a lot of you present:

Great to see you all! I thought MF Forums was lost forever (CNET forums just didn't cut it). A special thanks to Cyn who e-mailed me to ask where was I (Kauai was the answer).

I feel better connected again.

Thank you one and all.

welcome back, Ira!

Nice to see you, again, Ira! (Your absence has been notableiced.)

Welcome home Ira