In another posting Mac Maniac said:
"Looking at your weekly maintenance work-flow, I'm struck by how similar it is to what mine USED to be....since about the advent of Lion (10.7) and subsequent OS upgrades, I've not needed to intervene in the smooth working of my installed-base on any of the several different platforms I run. Up through Snow Leopard (10.6.8) I was much more likely to employ at least one or two of my various maintenance utilities fairly regularly.

I'm interested to see if my experience in this respect is valid or isolated...."

I would agree with you. In addition to regular backups, I used to run Disk Warrior and Disk Utility on a semi-weekly basis, just because they were there and for the perceived (actual?) benefits.

Now I don't use them (still backup, of course!) and I have not seen any change in "the smooth working of my installed-base".

Like you I used to use Disk Warrior regularly but now it's only periodically. The most likely event is when something seems not quite right and I'll do a directory rebuild. I did that several weeks ago but can't remember the time prior.

My most recent experience with Onyx, regarding booting into Safe Mode on my Mac Mini and resolving the subsequent issues I had with that (which the OS could not resolve), certainly re-enforces my belief in using it on a regular basis. Its cleanup tasks do save some disk space (not a great amount, but something is better than nothing), and thus when I eventually do my backups, they are as "lean and clean" as possible.

As for TechTool Pro, it rarely reveals any issues, but a primary reason for that is how often I use it (along with Onyx, and permanently removing deleted EMails in Outlook). I do see benefit in doing the Surface Scan of my drives, and also the Volume Rebuild for my drives.

I guess I could do these tasks less often, but as I previously stated, it is in my DNA, along with my firm belief in being proactive regarding disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs, and of course backups. But, that's just me.

To each his/her own, I guess.

I have TechTool Pro 6, which I use even less often than Disk Warrior and yet, like you, I rarely have issues. For me, like Mac Maniac, weekly preventive maintenance is history. My approach has become, "If it ain't broke....".


Of course, I could not agree more.

I'm pretty much a plank owner in the TechTool Pro world, having owned almost every version since inception. I used to employ it routinely to resolve minor (to major) issues on my own and many other Mac's in my circle. Today, I find myself delaying upgrades due to not having used the (then current) v7 that I've had since it came out....finally, if only to support the manufacturer, and "just in case" my El Capitan installed base shows a need, I upgraded to v8 just last week.

I bought an e-download of DiskWarrior a couple years ago to address a critical failure on my Mother-in-law's iMac when a power outage took out her directory....haven't really needed to use it since. Still at v4.4 although v5 has been out for a while. That "one trick pony" is still the go to utility for directory damage, but barring catastrophic external events, I haven't seen nearly the frequency or intensity of damaged directories that used to be almost routine....and the native Disk Utility has been able to repair nearly all that I've seen in the past two years.

I used to clone a backup regularly using Carbon Copy Cloner from Mike Bombich, however, when Disk Utility started to encompass the same capability natively (using the "Restore" feature) I haven't gone third party to make a clone for a REALLY long time.

With the advent of SSHD's in many of my machines, surface scans and defragmenting have actually become damaging to the longevity of the SSHD due to wear leveling and the limited lifetime of the underlying memory that replaced the spinning rust medium of a conventional hard drive. Something that many knowledgable folks often miss is that the algorithms designed to "defrag" or "optimize" a hard drive for faster read/write access move date on the drive into physical positions that allow the floating head to capture the data more efficiently as it flies past....this doesn't mean that the data is now located in adjacent sectors, but more likely that it is scattered across sectors and tracks that the read/write head can reposition to most conveniently. To run this same algorithm on an SSHD where there are no moving parts only creates unnecessary read/write events and ages the wear-leveling lifetime of the memory prematurely.....same goes for the surface scan function.

The CRON maintenance scripts that used to benefit from manual intervention using such tools as Cronnix, Cocktail, Onyx and many more are no longer run using CRON, but have been integrated into the launchd suite of background Unix level actions that "just work".....haven't dealt with Daily/Weekly/Monthly CRON jobs now forever.

So, at least in my case, the need for third-party utilities to maintain a properly optimized and smoothly functioning OS X install has almost completely been overcome by the progressive maturation of the OS X environment.

Understand. Also, if you were to upgrade the Mac OS, you would need to upgrade TechTool Pro.

And yes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is understandable. Given that I do some simple maintenance on my cars myself (not due to anything being broken, although when that does happen, I attempt to "fix" it on my own (if I can, which is getting to be more and more of a challenge with newer automobiles)), I follow the same practice with my Macs. Actually, Onyx is doing more "fixing" by all its cleanup related tasks. As I suspect you know, and based on what features I run, for TechTool Pro, the only "fixing" it is doing is the Volume Rebuild, and File Optimization tasks (for HDDs, it would also be fixing things via Volume Optimization, but for SSDs, that task is no longer applicable, nor recommended). For the other tasks I use it for, it is just checking things and letting me know if there are any issues. If TechTool Pro were to find any issues, I'd have to see what additional tools it, or Disk Warrior, have to get them resolved. Given that I never see any, I actually don't know what those are.

I do appreciate your take on this. For myself, the tasks I perform with Onyx and TechTool Pro are mainly for "peace of mind", although I also prefer to have "lean and clean" backups when I run SuperDuper! for backing up. My use of such tools is just about the same as the "extra" maintenance I am doing on our cars, so it could be overkill. As I mentioned before, about the only recent incident where this helped was when I had the issue of booting into Safe Mode on my Mac MIni, running OS 10.11.3. It did not happen on my MacBook Air, which made it more difficult to determine why it happened. El Capitan could not help, but Onyx resolved the issues for me. I actually do not know if TechTool Pro or Disk Warrior could have helped, given that Onyx actually does some "real" cleaning.

In any event, thanks for your comments.

Could you elaborate on how/where Disk Utility does a clone. Under 10.11.x a quick look at Disk Utility does not show anything along these lines. Thanks.

Regarding MacManiac's post above (too long to quote), I am well aware that Volume Optimization is no longer needed, nor recommended, for SDDs. File Optimization, on the other hand, appears to be OK. As for Surface Scans, based on what Micromat TechSupport says on their forums about that, they are not harmful. Here is a quote of one of those posts:

"The name of the Surface Scan test is not particularly apt for SSD drives, but the test is still valid. It is simply reading blocks, one after another, to make sure that they can be read. We have had customers run the Surface Scan to check SD cards used in cameras, and a few have been found to be defective.

Save the results of the Surface Scan, so it a later lest finds errors (unremapped bad blocks), you will have a good basis for a warranty claim."

So, it does not appear to be harmful. Again, it is not actually doing any repairs with the Surface Scan.

I also only have V4.4 of Disk Warrior, and if I do need to use it for looking at, and repairing, the SSDs inside either of my Macs, I need to boot from my SuperDuper! backup and run it from there. (TechTool Pro, on the other hand, lets one create an eDrive partition on an internal drive, similar to the Recovery HD partition created by the Mac OS). So, I also don't need to upgrade it, unless V4.4 becomes incompatible with a future version of the Mac OS.

Finally, there is the constant "back and forth" about what software to use for backups, and there are pros and cons to either argument. I use SuperDuper!, preferring to have an easy and fast way to recover from a catastrophe (and based on what I mentioned about Disk Warrior, it is required for me to have a clone). SuperDuper! does have one defect: it does not backup the Recovery HD partition, whereas Carbon Copy Cloner does. That is not an issue for me, given that there are at least two easy ways to recreate it. Also, I would use the tools on the SuperDuper! backup anyway to try and do any "serious" repairs to the SSDs inside either of my Macs. For the Recovery HD partition, only Disk Utility is available for such repairs. But on my SuperDuper! backups, I can choose to use Disk Utility, TechTool Pro, and/or Disk Warrior. I like that.

Another advantage of a clone (and especially if it is "lean and clean") is that if one were to get another Mac (especially a new one), and assuming one is using all the up to date items on their Mac (that is my situation), then one can get that other Mac up and running real quick via the SuperDuper! restore function. Yes, the OS is the same, but it would be the applications that one uses where this si an excellent advantage. (Additionally, when purchasing new Macs from third party sources, it often happens that the installed OS is Yosemite, instead of El Capitan. It's often even worse for older, used Macs).

Yeah, I'd like to see that also. I have yet to encounter that.

Yeah, Ira....

My bad!

In El Capitan, the "Restore" function has been pulled out of the visible selection choices, but remains available for you to choose under the "Edit" pull-down menu.

There is an Apple Support article HERE if you want to get it straight from the horses' mouth....

Hi Honestone, looks like you jumped in while I was drafting my reply to Ira...

(edited to include Honestone)

One of the additional tools that I didn't mention in my original review of third-party utilities is actually a native capability in OS X, that is the Unix command line accessed via the Terminal application in /Applications/Utilities.

Where I have found this to be increasingly useful is for late-breaking OS capabilities for which there isn't (yet) a graphic user interface access available.

When I upgraded my Wife's MB Pro 15" to an SSHD, I followed the guidance in the article linked HERE to enable the trim function for a non-Apple SSHD.....prior to Yosemite 10.10.4 and subsequent OS releases, a third-party enabler was required.

As your link states (and what I stated above), one can also boot to the Recovery HD partition to perform the same function/functions.



Yeah, such "timing/mis-timing" happens! I assume my comments are valid.

Yeah, when I upgraded my wife's MB Pro to an SSHD last month, I used the Recovery Partition to access Disk Utility and then Restore the contents of her hard drive onto the SSHD as a bootable clone......not quite as simple as I would have liked, but effective. FWIW, the clone on the SSHD included a recovery partition....

As far as validating your comments, I'm not here for that.....your comments stand on their own. Your processes as you've described them are obviously functional to your needs and have worked for a good while.....doesn't necessarily make them the ONLY way to get the job done and doesn't necessarily make them right or wrong if someone else has a different solution.

Glad to see you here.

(edited to add info on the clone's Recovery Partition...

That's where having a clone comes in handy.



I probably used some "incorrect" terminology, but I certainly DID NOT mean that my way is the only way. Heck, in one of my posts above, I agreed with Ira L's comments, and I still would echo those same thoughts. I am definitely trying to keep things cordial, ie, "Go along, and we'll get along". So far, I firmly believe I am accomplishing that. I think you are misinterpreting my statements, and I hope that changes based on what I am saying. And to put it more succinctly: honestone's way is NOT the only way.

In any event, glad to participate cordially in this discussion. I feel all of us can make various contributions to this discussion.

Thanks for the link to the article about DU's Restore function. One of the advantages of SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner is that they can make incremental updates in a fraction of the time needed for a full clone. On my SSD clone, for example (connected via Thunderbolt 2), the update takes between 2 and 3 minutes. On my Hitachi HDD (connected via Thunderbolt), it takes between 5 and 6 minutes. A full clone takes 25 or 40 minutes, respectively. For the record, I'm using CCC as my cloning app.

We were on the road away from home (and backups) when I did the upgrade, so working with the tools at hand (or waiting....never a good option with the bride...) was what I had to do.

Since the SSHD came empty and unformatted, I had to populate it with what was at hand.

I think you and I are both saying the same thing, i.e., "MacManiac's way is NOT the only way!" just as much as that applies to your way....

One of the cute sayings that I've been known to utter for the past several decades (while teaching other pilots new skills) as a flight instructor has been:

"There are a 1001 ways to skin a cat, so if at the end of the day you find yourself with a naked feline, then YOUR way must have worked!"

Once again, glad to see you here....and looking forward to more.

Understand. Hopefully, you did not keep your bride waiting! And of course, there is the old saying, "Keep the woman happy".



Like your quotes. I have some of my own that are applicable. One of course is:

"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Army way"

In the discussions at hand, there is certainly no right way or wrong way, but definitely no Army way!

And one I have said before, and I could have used it when I was teaching part time to inform the students how to be successful in the course: "Go along, and we'll get along". That one is certainly not obtrusive, is 100% valid, and is excellent, excellent advice, no matter what one is discussing or pursuing.

The factors that make volume optimization counter-productive are just as much in play with file optimization. Additionally by the very nature of SSDs there is little or no benefit to be gained by either file or volume optimization, so why use up all the CPU cycles it takes and risk shortening the useful life of the SSD?


First be sure the clone will boot the new Mac. Macs have only rarely been bootable from versions of OS X older than the one that shipped on the new machine and in El Capitan the closest thing to what used to be called a retail copy of the OS that would boot many different versions is the Recovery Drive so what you have on a given machine is relatively unique. You can still migrate from the clone but that isn't that much faster than migrating from a Time Machine backup.

I'd have to see if I am "hurting" anything by doing a File Optimization. I know that TechTool Pro specifically "warns" against doing a Volume Optimization for SSDs, but never for the File Optimization. There are only a few files that need to be "optimized", and also I don't use either of my machines for a significant number of hours each day.



I've never run into an issue about booting either of my Macs from the SuperDuper! backup, no matter which original OS each one shipped with. The only issue is how long such a boot process takes (I already posted something about that in the Peripherals area).

And yes, the speed of the migration process from a clone is not much different (if any) from a Time Machine backup. The huge advantage of restoring from a clone, of corse, is how quickly one can be back in business (assuming the internal drive is OK):

1. Boot the Mac to the clone.

2. Use the Restore - all files option in SuperDuper!.

3. It will then completely Erase the drive, and then restore everything exactly from the clone.

4. Reboot the Mac.

Of course, it is a good idea to make sure the clone is "lean and clean", which of course is what I do. And, one needs to update the information on the clone, assuming one is not doing any kind of incremental backups. That is my case, andI have an excellent handle on what kind of updates would need to be made in such a recovery. (It's mainly EMails, Quicken Account Files, and any software updates that were available).

I guess if I really wanted things to be clean, I could first launch Disk Utility from the clone, Erase and Format my SSD drive (only need the 1 partition), and then launch SuperDuper! to do the restore.

Edit: Unless, of course, you're aware of something that I haven't run across.

Hmm, did not know that. However, I just launched Disk Warrior V4.4 on my MacBook Air (am using that machine to enter this), running OS 10.11.3, and it ran fine. I could only 1) test my internal SSD, and 2) Check Files and Folders, but those worked fine. For Repairing Permissions, it gave the message "diskutil did not recognize the verb "repairPermissions"; type diskutil for a list". I know also that recently I did run Disk Warrior from my Mac Mini SuperDuper! backup to do other repairs, and it worked fine.

Oh well, I do have Onyx for repairing permissions and other disk cleanup tasks, and TechTool Pro for more disk cleanup, and for disk maintenance/repairs.

The Repair Permissions function in TechTool v8 has been properly tested by MicroMat prior to release and is safe for use on OS X 10.11.x El Capitan.....this is why MicroMat didn't release v8 until after El Capitan had been released -- they were still testing it against the final version of the OS.

As I recall, MicroMat was burned pretty badly several years ago when one of the functions in an earlier version of TechTool Pro (that had worked in testing against the pre-release beta of the OS) played havoc with the final release due to some last-minute adjustments that Apple made to the final version....

Disk Warrior v4.4 (and most likely all other legacy utilities), while it might appear to run correctly under El Capitan does NOT have the capability to properly rebuild the directory now because there are MORE functions within the OS today than it (and the legacy utilities) knew about when originally designed and released....this is exactly what ALSOFT has cautioned their user-base about with the warning directing an upgrade to v5.

Ahh yes, menus to choose from. What a concept!

That's pretty nice. Thanks! The copy is bootable? The article only says "exact" copy.

As pointed out above, the time to create a new and complete copy every time is significantly greater than by other methods mentioned.

Yeah, I thought about that rebuild directory business with V4.4 of Disk Warrior. Fortunately, that same functionality is part of TechTool Pro.

Regarding when TechTool Pro was upgraded to V 8.0.3 (note the .3) for El Capitan compatibility, as you said, that actually happened AFTER the release of OS 10.11, but before the release of OS 10.11.1. I also suspect that the delay in that release was not due solely to the Repair Permissions feature. I actually never planned to upgrade from Yosemite, OS 10.10.5, to that first version of El Capitan because the first beta of OS 10.11.1 appeared in early August, just about 8 weeks before OS 10.11 was released, and thus I planned to upgrade to OS 10.11.1 anyway. However, it was still my requirement that 5 critical applications needed to be compatible with El Capitan before I upgraded: 1Password, Onyx, Office 2011, SuperDuper!, and TechTool Pro. The upgrades for the first 4 did come out prior to the release of OS 10.11, but as was mentioned, the one for TechTool Pro did not come out then. Even if the upgrade for TechTool Pro would have come out prior to the release of OS 10.11, I still would have waited until OS 10.11.1 was released, which was only 4 weeks later.

Speaking of Repair Permissions, are there any differences for that feature between Onyx and TechTool Pro? I did previously ask that same question on the TechTool Pro forum for El Capitan compatibility, and I never got a definitive answer.

Looking at the release notes for Onyx v3.15 (specifically released for El Capitan), I would be re-assured that the utility should perform properly for the functions it is designed to perform on an El Capitan install.

The Onyx developers have a very credible history of maintaining parity with OS changes as they are released.....the major caveat for most folks would be to ensure that the version of Onyx which they have is appropriate for the version of OS upon which they wish to use it.

As to how it compares under the hood to TechTool Pro v8.x, I couldn't begin to guess....maybe a side by side comparison of each running a permissions repair while monitoring the process using the Terminal and the Unix "top" command line tool????

Using the Terminal to monitor the underlying process, I ran both Onyx3.1.5 and TechTool8.0.3 permissions repair functions in order and saw that both make calls to the same Unix repair_packages tool....so apparently they seem to be identical in their approach.

(edited to add disk permissions repair comparison...)

Thanks for your insights/comments, MacManiac. For Onyx, it looks like Titanium Software "recently" went to specific versions of Onyx for specific versions of the Mac OS:

http://www.titanium.free.fr/onyx.html

I have no idea what would happen if I, for example, downloaded V 3.0.1 of Onyx, and tried to use it, given that I am now running El Capitan. I don't want to try!

Also, I took a previous item you pointed out to test. I just completed my weekly maintenance tasks, and I just re-booted my MacBook Air from the just completed SuperDuper! backup (was the second one). Although somewhat slow, it did eventually complete booting successfully from that just made backup/clone. So, at least one of them is fine. (I'll try the one for my MacMini soon, as I am entering this post on it).

I still want to look at purchasing a Samsung 512 gig SSD (not sure if it will be an 850 EVO model, or an 850 Pro model) to place in an external case for my backups. Once again, though, I still need to find such a case with a Firewire 800 connector. I'm assuming such a combination, instead of my present hardware for that (a Firewire 800 connection, but a 7200 rpm Seagate HDD), would be faster.

The booting of the Mini from the most recent SuperDuper! backup also worked, although once agin, it was somewhat slow. (Edited for that additional comment)

Whenever I have upgraded to a major OS (e.g. from Yosemite to El Cap), the old version of OnyX has refused to open, saying that it is not compatible. I assume that the same would happen if you downloaded an older version.

Yes, that makes sense. As it is, before I upgrade from one OS to the next one, I already know that at least 5 of my critical applications need to be compatible with the new OS, or else I will wait for upgrades to such software. That is exactly what happened prior to El Capitan coming out. 1Password, Office 2011, SuperDuper!, and Onyx had updates for El Capitan compatibility prior to the release of OS 10.11, and for TechTool Pro, it was shortly after OS 10.11 was released. It was a couple of weeks later that I upgraded from OS 10.10.5 to OS 10.11.1.

I have read of some "rare" instances of software that needed updates within releases of an OS. Fortunately, I have never needed to do that. But, it could be something to be aware of. In fact, I can't remember any such need to "mainstream" third party apps like 1Password, SuperDuper!, Carbon Copy Cloner, Onyx, etc. The recent one for TechTool Pro was somewhat rare, although as MacManiac previously pointed out:

"As I recall, MicroMat was burned pretty badly several years ago when one of the functions in an earlier version of TechTool Pro (that had worked in testing against the pre-release beta of the OS) played havoc with the final release due to some last-minute adjustments that Apple made to the final version...."

I certainly sensed that while reading the TechTool discussion regarding El Capitan compatibility of TechTool Pro. Prior to the official release of V8.0.3, the Micromat participant in the discussion mentioned quite a few times about insuring TechTool Pro would be compatible with OS 10.11. I guess I took a little risk by moving to OS 10.11.1 after V8.0.3 of TechTool Pro came out, even though it was "only" certified" with OS 10.11 (same was true, of course, with the other apps I use). And, in fact, and knock on wood, things have been fine for 10.11.2 and 10.11.3. 10.11.4 has been in beta testing for quite a while, and I have not seen anything regarding third party product compatibility and OS 10.11.4.

Of course, I insure to apply each update for any of my apps that come out right away, so that I am current.

If you have the cash and a Thunderbolt port, buy a Thunderbolt dock for your hard drive. The combination of TB and SSD can't be beat.

For my MacMini, the connection is via direct Firewire 800. The backups themselves actually are speedy enough. For my MacBook Air, I have a Thunderbolt-to-Firewire 800 adapter, and again, the backups are fast. My MacMini does not have a Thunderbolt port, so I'd have to purchase another adapter that would be the reverse of the one I have. And, in actuality, except for keeping one of the old external drives with the Firewire 800 interface (I would sell the other one), that is the only reason I would need the current adapter I have.

Ideally, I would like a slim, external 2.5" enclosure (like the one I have now for another drive I had inside my Mac Mini) that has a Firewire800 port. But, if such a device has a Thunderbolt port, and is not too expensive, I would consider it (again, though, I would need another adapter so I could use it for backing up my Mac Mini).

To the best of my knowledge there ain't no such animal.

Apple's Thunderbolt FireWire adapter is a one-way connector

You might want to take another look at the back of your mini:

sp659_mac_mini-late2012-connections.jpg

Permission repair in OnyX, TechTool Pro, TinkerTool System, MacPilot and a number of other utilities all rely the same Unix command line function with only minor tweaking of the output display. Since Apple has deprecated that functionality the underlying UNIX command will eventually be removed from OS X and most likely support for the library files permission repair is dependent upon to know the correct settings (hat information isn't there for App Store and drag and drop installed applications already). At that point the functionality will have to disappear from the OnyX Et. Al..

Yeah, unfortunately that seems to be the case. It was wishful thinking on my part.

Duh! Why did I not see that Thunderbolt port? I swear I have not been drinking!

Thanks for that.

Yeah, I have read about/heard that before, regarding the fact that such products all use identical same Unix command line function.

I also hope that even if Apple "deprecates" such functionality more and more, that there could exist other ways to accomplish the same thing that those utilities are now doing. But, I suspect you are correct, and that such functions as Repair Permissions will "go the way of the dodo".

And why not?!

I find that a nice glass of tempranillo or shiraz or cabernet or ... definitely improves the vicissitudes of daily life.

Ha Ha! My wife actually makes excellent red wine from the blackberries we pick in late summer, and it is WAY better than any of the stuff sold in stores. I drink one glass of it with dinner. In fact, I have been doing that for about 5 years now, and I suspect it is a contributing factor as to why I am still in very good health (besides exercise and eating sensibly, and healthy food. My wife is a superior cook, and I am not the only person who says that).

Last September, I found a place close to where we live where I picked sweet, ripe green grapes. Once again, my clever wife made wine from it, but it is fermenting as I write this. I suspect we will be able to have some in a couple of months, and I truly expect it to taste wonderful!

I plan on also picking more blackberries and grapes this summer. Besides being out in the fresh air, it is excellent exercise! In fact, with spring forward two weeks away, I will start switching my exercise regimen from swimming to hiking towards the latter part of March. I can't wait!