Given the popularity of Here's Mud in Your Cup, I thought that it would be enjoyable to start a thread about tea. As a tea enthusiast, I appreciate some of the finer points of the art of brewing. For those who crave additional knowledge, visit Tea (Wikipedia).

When I was child, the only tea that I encountered was bagged tea by Lipton or Tetley. I was not impressed. There's nothing wrong with tea bags, per se, but the problem was that the quality of the tea therein left much to be desired. Connoisseurs tended to prefer loose tea for that reason. I get most of my tea from Harney&Sons and prefer to go directly to their store in Millerton, NY (about a 50 minute drive from my home). There, one can request that a cup be brewed and sampled before buying, as well as the opportunity to enjoy any of their teas in their small cafe (now there's an oxymoron!). John Harney, the founder, is semi-retired but his son Michael and Brigitte, Michael's wife, run the business. Michael is often away buying teas in exotic places while Brigitte minds the store. I highly recommend a visit, if possible. You will find it to be a pleasant, rewarding experience.

I tend to disagree with those who advocate brewing by timing the steep (the Harneys brew that way). My method is to place loose tea in a permanent tea filter and brew it from there. I put water into a Bodum electric water kettle, let it come to a boil, and then pour it into a Pilyvuyt teapot until the pot is half full. This allows the water to go slightly below boiling temperature (tea leaves, like coffee grinds, should never be boiled). I then immerse the tea filter into the pot (it hangs on the rim so it doesn't fall in) and pour more water into the teapot until it is full. I don't time the steep, but instead, I wait a short time, swirl the filter, and then temporarily remove it. This allows me to taste the tea to see if it is ready. Usually, it isn't because I prefer to err on the light side. I then put the filter back and allow some more time, repeating the process until the tea tastes right to me. When it is brewed to my satisfaction, I remove the filter and serve.

I have tried many teapots but I prefer the Pilyvuyt to all others. It retains heat admirably, so the tea does not cool too quickly. In addition, the pour spout is designed very well, making it easy to pour without dripping onto the table. I recommend that a white teapot be used, regardless of the brand, because you will be able to see the color of the tea, an indispensable aid in judging if it is correctly brewed.

The amount of loose tea added to the filter varies with the capacity of the teapot and the type of tea. My teapot brews about 4 cups and I use 4 teaspoons (what else?) of tea. For some teas, Darjeeling in particular, I prefer to use heaping teaspoons because of the high concentration of tannins in that variety. The bouquet appears before the tannins and, if you don't use extra tea, you will have to steep the tea for extra time to extract the flavor; this also brings out the tannins. Tannins cause an astringency that I find to be unpleasant. By adding extra tea, the bouquet can be emphasized without getting too much tannin.

Oolongs, on the other hand, have little tannin and need to be brewed for a long period of time. Naturally, I add extra tea so that I don't have to wait until the next day for a good cup! Green teas seem to require extra time as well, and can be tannic. As with all matters culinary, personal preference is paramount so you will have to experiment to see what suits your taste.

Not all teas are constantly available. Here are my favorite Harney teas, in no particular order:

Sungma (from Darjeeling)
Kenilworth (from Sri Lanka, although they are still called Ceylon teas)
Earl Grey Supreme (better than Earl Grey)
Fanciest Formosa Oolong (Oolongs from Taiwan are better than those from mainland China)
Gyokoru (Japanese)
Black Currant
Rose Scented
Hot Cinnamon Spice
Jasmine
Citron Green
Golden Tip Assam (from Assam, naturally)

Undoubtedly, I have left some out. Another fine tea company is In Pursuit of Tea. I am very fond of the Nantou Oolong. Check out Palais des Thés as well. I particularly like Thé Des Moines.

Hopefully, others will add to the list and share their favorite brewing techniques. Drink tea, live long, and prosper!

Just a small comment re: tea bags. Like you I drank Lipton or Tetley tea for years, until my wife found PG tips locally. If you have to use bags and like 'black' tea, this sure is a step or two up from the two other brands.

....about the drinking part. Do you add anything to the final brew? Or does that depend on the tea? My wife's mother, who is British, has always had tea with milk and always put the milk in her cup first, so she was adding the tea to milk rather than milk into the tea.

ryck

The Brits seem to have a penchant for adulterating tea with milk in just the fashion you describe. (But what would you expect from a culture which has given the world "bangers and mash" and cold toast put out in a toast stand the night before breakfast?!)
The practice carried over into the Raj, with a vengeance, so that even today chai tea is polluted with milk and sugar. {gag – in spades}
Color me purist; I want to savor the taste of the individual tea varieties.

I like my tea unadulterated; no milk, no sugar, no honey, and definitely no ketchup. When I visited England, I saw that the Brits had the habit of sticking teabags in the pot and leaving them there. They had a separate pot of plain water that was used to dilute the tea in the cup after it had become over-brewed (and, I might add, very tannic). The only tea that I had in UK was from Tetley teabags. I concluded that the English may like their tea, but they don't know squat about quality or brewing techniques. Of course, that's not surprising considering the quality of English food.

Although my wife is a tea drinker, I am not. Alternatively my wife hasn't had coffee for about thirty years. My not drinking tea isn't that I don't like it, I simply never started. I find it interesting that you, like others, not only drink both tea and coffee but are very particular about preparation with each.

Are you also particular about when you have tea, or is it just what you feel like drinking at the time? For example, have you found that certain foods are best followed by a cup of tea rather than a coffee?

ryck

We tend to have tea after supper. Tea leaves have a lot of caffeine but the caffeine is extracted much more slowly than in coffee, so a cup of tea tends to have considerably less caffeine than a cup of coffee. So, tea doesn't interfere with sleep. I like coffee in the morning precisely because it wakes me up.

Sometimes, on a cold winter day, we'll brew a pot of tea mid-afternoon. Food is an afterthought because we just enjoy the tea.

Ditto here on the waking up part. My evening drink has tended to be hot chocolate but perhaps I've been missing out on something. Maybe it's time to give tea a try.

Good thread.....very interesting.

ryck

Both tea and coffee, in moderation, are good for you. One benefit they have in common is caffeine, which may help to protect the blood-brain barrier:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7326839.stm

Although you may want to check out Murray Carpenter's "A Century Later, Jury’s Still Out on Caffeine Limits" in The New York Times (and other newspapers [eg, in the Tuscaloosa News], if you don't have a digital subscription to NYT) on March 29.

I have realized, at age 66, that "knowledge" about the effects of different consumables (alcohol, caffeine, you-name-it) changes periodically. When I was a kid, chocolate was blamed for causing acne. Now, chocolate has anti-oxidants and is good for you. I also have come to realize that, if I do everything "right", I still won't be immortal. Consequently, moderation is the key. I'm going to enjoy what I enjoy and not worry about the consequences.

The grave awaits, no matter what any of us does.

That's for sure. About 20 or 25 years ago, so the details are fuzzy, I watched a TV item featuring an elderly black lady who was then the oldest person in the U.S. It seems to me she was something over 110 years old. Her mind was clear as a bell, she had a great sense of humour, and she remained standing for the interview.

The interviewer asked what she attributed her longevity to, and she replied "These", holding up a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

So I figure if I add something to my consumables, like tea, maybe I improve the longevity odds and get a "quality of life boost" while I'm at it.

ryck

Well, now you've done it. I gave tea a try the other evening and quite liked it.



When I was told "You can't take it with you." my response was "Well, if I can't take it with me, I'm not going." Are you saying it's not that simple?

ryck

In the immortal words of Woody Allen, "It's not that I'm afraid of dying; I just don't want to be there when it happens." At least the words are immortal, sort of.

Allen also said (paraphrasing), "I don't want to be immortal through my works. I want to be immortal by not dying."

Mark Twain said, "If there's no sex in heaven, I don't want to go." I have never read anything to that effect about tea.

From Errol Flynn's autobiography...


Forgetting about the number (I wonder what it would be if he were writing today?), I love the sentiment, namely that you don't have to worry about taking it with you or leaving it behind if you've enjoyed it all before you go.

That reminds me of an old joke:

The family gathered at the lawyer's office to hear the reading of the late patriarch's will. It said, "Being of sound mind, I spent every cent before I died."

Forgetting about the number (I wonder what it would be if he were writing today?), I love the sentiment... [/quote]


My guess is that it'd be: "Your bank balance should be zero and your last cheque should bounce."

ryck

Getting back on topic..........



My tea drinking has begun with what my wife uses which are Tetley tea bags for her day-today consumption and Lee Valley (yes, the famous tool company) Ceylonese Orange Pekoe.

Lee Valley talks about their tea being grown at high altitude (5,000 feet) and being hand-picked. The latter has the advantage of not including older leaves and bits of twig which would make the tea bitter. They also say that hand-picked means they get only two young tip leaves plus the bud.

I'll leave that debate to those much more knowledgeable than newcomers such as I.

I do, however, have a couple of questions. Where does freshness fit into the equation? With coffee you can grind as you need but I don't think there's the same option with tea....or does it matter?

And, if a person was going to try something more exotic what would you recommend from your list?

ryck

RE if a person [were] going to try something more exotic what would you recommend from your list?

Given your location you might want to head to Chinatown on East Hastings the next time you're in Vancouver and look for 6 Happiness Tea.
It's been a long time since I was there (so I don't know where or if it's still findable), but I still have some from way back when and it's fabulously tasty (and I'm not a diehard tea drinker).
It does have the odor of a wharf at low tide, but don't be put off; it'll grow on ya.

In my experience, black teas and oolongs keep quite well. Green teas are a bit more perishable. I keep all my teas in airtight tins and, if the green tea is particularly valuable, in the refrigerator. Otherwise, they are stored at room temperature.

As to exotics, I didn't think that my list included any. Still, if you are unfamiliar with something, by definition it is exotic. Lately, my wife and I have become rather addicted to Hot Cinnamon Spice. It is not, in reality, spicy and the heat is from the water temperature, not anything else. It has a very intense cinnamon flavor and is made from three varieties of cinnamon mixed in with the base tea. Once you start drinking it, it is hard to stop.

Actually, my favorite of all teas is Kenilworth. I have had several Ceylon teas but I'm most fond of this one. If I were trapped on the proverbial desert island and could only choose one tea, that would be the one. The Ceylon bouquet is very pronounced and it feels almost honeyed on the palate.

Thé Des Moines makes a very nice cup. It is a flavored tea with a black tea base. The name means Tea of the Monks in French and is made with a secret recipe of flavorings by real monks. It reminds me of sarsaparilla but undoubtedly that's not in it.

Well, not to shunt this discussion into the cheese aisle , that reminds me of Lapsang soochong. The first time I smelled some, it reminded me of a burned down circus (don't ask...). I've since lost that particular association, but I still remember it vividly.

I just stuck my shnoz* in both.
Indeed, lapsang souchong is quite smoky. 6 Happiness is a fair bit different, with perhaps an algal scent.

* I prefer Leo Rosten's transliterations over the usual Yiddish ones, in this case sh- for the usual sch- (based on the German origin, pronounced [sh] vs Italian or Dutch [sk]). Whatever.

[somewhat off-topic]


Not to quibble too much, but that sk in Dutch should be sch, with the 'ch' pronounced as in the Scottish loch. Lachen, toch?

[/somewhat off-topic]

Until April of 2010, when it closed, Ito En on Madison Avenue in New York was said to be the only place in the USA that kept its green tea inventory under refrigeration. I was fortunate to be able to buy two Japanese chawan there for $60 each right before the potter bacame famous and started exhibiting in galleries.

Ito En still has a Website:

www.itoen.com

The company is famous for having solved the problem of bottling brewed green tea without having it oxidize.

As always, a retail store has its fans and its detractors.

There was a restaurant above Ito En named Kai that served three teas with dinner:

Jasmine Green Superior #262 as “welcome tea.” (Ito En carries three jasmine teas.)

Next, Kaiseki Hojicha tea #142 (“roasted twig tea, toasty and warm”)

Finally, a Honyama Sencha (“‘bright’ green tea, generous and soft”).

I had dinner at Kai with some friends once. A woman at a nearby table objected to every dish on the menu. I watched with satisfaction as the waiter finally asked, very politely, why the woman had come to a Japanese restaurant if she did not like Japanese food. It appeared that the only thing to which she did not object was the Kirin beer, which was served in distinctive asymmetric glasses from Japan that I believe are in the design collection of the Museum of Modern Art, New York.

I'm sorry that I did not know about Ito En before reading your post. I would definitely have tried it. It's also a pity that Takashimaya went out of business. My wife and I often had lunch there when we came into New York. The food was impeccably prepared and the tea was outstanding.

Closer to home, in Kingston NY, we have a very good Japanese restaurant called Kyoto Sushi. It may not be up to similar establishments in NYC but the food is excellent nonetheless.

I do like Japanese teas. Hoijicha (at least that's the spelling that I am used to) and Genmaicha are two favorites. Harney used to carry a first flush Sencha that was, in my opinion, better than Gyokoru. For those not familiar with the terms, Sencha is used for ordinary green tea while Gyokoru is considered the finest grade. If I ever travel to Japan, I will avail myself of the opportunity to experience the tea ceremony.

Jon,

I do not get to New York very often, but I was able to visit Takashimaya several times. The last time, they had devoted an entire floor to exhibiting textiles from various craftspeople, including felt items by Pai Wallen.

Two interesting Japanese sites:

http://www.hibiki-an.com/

http://www.2000cranes.com

There was in 2002 an exhibit in New York about the tea ceremony that was held partly at the Asia Society and partly at the Japan Society. I made these notes, probably on an ATM receipt:

"New Way of Tea“ exhibit:

The exhibition video said that Samurai warriors engaged in tea ceremony to escape the sights, the sounds, and the stench of battle, and practised the ritual to have an escape that required total concentration (a good break from thinking about war). They conducted the ceremony with their guests as if they would never again see each other in this world.

[The virtual tour at Asia Society that requires QuickTime is not working for me.]

It's interesting that so many of the teapots have the handles on the side. I assume it has something to do with the fact that it's easier to turn one's wrist sideways than to bend it forward.

ryck

ryck,

I think you are correct about the ergonomics of the teapot.

I am reminded of the time when I found out that Japanese saws cut on the pull stroke, so the blade has a better chance of being straight. Years later, I would use one to cut down, very precisely, a kitchen cabinet so a new refrigerator could be installed in a semi-emergency.

RE Not to quibble too much, but that sk in Dutch should be sch, with the 'ch' pronounced as in the Scottish loch. Lachen, toch? laugh

No, your quibble is quite correct. I should have been clearer, namely the way Dutch sch- (IPA [sx-]) was taken over into English in words such as Schenectady, from the Iroquois Skagh-nect-ha-tie, although the etymology is far from proven.

Think also of Italian bruschetta, which most people, including restaurant workers, pronounce as 'brushetta' rather than 'brusketta'.

When i was in college, I became quite fond of drinking tea on a daily basis. I prefer black teas; green teas aren't really tea as far as I'm concerned. English breakfast tea and Russian caravan tea quickly became favorites.

Then I stopped drinking tea for decades. I've picked it up again since I went to visit two of my sweeties in London; even to this day, tea is the only thing that the English do well in the world of things to put in one's body. It almost (almost!) makes up for the horror of black pudding.

It's not surprising, really, that the English love tea so much that it became the cornerstone of a worldwide slave empire. I still can't quite abide the way they adulterate it with milk, and took mine without, thank you very much. It is quite nice, though, that preparing you a cup of tea is basically how they say "Hello!"

Since I got back, I've started drinking tea again. English breakfast mostly; haven't found any Russian caravan here in Portland, though my sweetie here says she may have found a lead on some.

So Tacit, do you favor OTHER Beverages as well????

While I like you prefer my tea without milk, I do occasionally drink it with and so far I have survived that just fine. I also make it a habit to try things at least once, on the off chance I might like it. After all, if you don’t, you’ll never find that incredible food/drink/experience.

That said, there is something to local food and drink habits that may go beyond mere taste, while your taste itself is not immutable either and perfectly capable of adjusting to circumstances. I distinctly remember a visit to Nepal’s Langtang valley glaciers where I actually liked my tea spiked with slightly rancid salted butter. Of course, the daily exertions of the trek there required more salt and calories than my diet initially provided. And sure enough, once back in the city and certainly later at home that particular tea additive never had the same appeal…

I'm shocked by the price tag on that bottle!

When I first drank Louis Tres it cost $300/bottle, was a $25 shot, and was wonderful; when it got to $1,200 and $125, about 20 years ago, it had long since become something of a fool's errand...a waaay overpriced way for guys with a lot of money to demonstrate it...to impress their buddies or dates.

Tacit,

Teavana does not sell Russian Caravan, but they might be worth a visit:


Pioneer Place Mall

700 SW Fifth Ave.
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: (503) 274.6227

I had heard of Russian Caravan, but did not know which teas were in it. The story is quite interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Caravan

I prefer high-end rum to high-end cognac, actually. In fact, I sampled cognac for the first time ever while on vacation about six months ago in a French castle, and it struck me as being quite like having flaming battery acid poured on my tongue, with a chaser of ammonium nitrate to wash it down. Once I'd finished rolling on the floor in agony, I'd have been quite willing to cut off my tongue just to avoid a repeat of the experience...



Thanks, I'll have to check them out! BTW, I looked for Micromat at MacWorld SF in January but didn't see you guys. Were you there?

> Once I'd finished rolling on the floor in agony, I'd have been quite willing to cut off my tongue just to avoid a repeat of the experience...

That's pretty extreme...goes far beyond personal taste issues.

Which cognac were you drinking?

And which rums you prefer? (I've never been much of a run drinker, but Gosling turned my head around.)

High end (meaning high price) Cognac is not necessarily good. Sometimes, there is no relation between what you pay and what you get. My favorite Cognac is Delamain. I was fortunate to be able to obtain a bottle of the Reserve de Famille, aged for 50 years. To my understanding, it is no longer available in the US and my wife and I finished it long ago. Extraordinary! I have not liked any of the Hennessy Cognacs that I have tried.

That said, I prefer Armagnac and the best Armagnac that I ever had was also fairly cheap.

> High end (meaning high price) Cognac is not necessarily good.

Not necessarily good according to your taste, that's got to be. "Good" cognac is pretty much a totally subjective matter; consider the number of Remy Martin VSOP, which I find undrinkable, lovers. And I love Courvoisier VSOP, but I never go near my Courvoisier Napoleon... a practically undrinkable $70 bottle.

I agree with you about Delamain, though, going back to when it was "Pale and Dry..." Wonderful stuff!!!

As for Hennessy, its VS and Martel's VS are huge sellers, but I can't stand the taste of either; I do like Hennessy XO, though.

Armagnac's got many fans, but I've never gotten into it.

Delamain Cognac Reserve De La Famille (750ml - Full Bottle)     $535.00
Quantity Available:  In Stock
http://www.2020wines.com/
http://www.2020wines.com/delamain-cognac-reserve-de-la-famille-750.html
Twenty Twenty Wine Merchants
2020 Cotner Avenue
West Los Angeles, CA 90025
Phone: (310) 447-2020
Fax: (310) 447-0330
Is this what you are looking for?

Thanks, Mark. That's the one. The price is a tad steeper than I would like. If memory serves, we paid around $300 for the original bottle, but that was many years ago. Considering how slowly we emptied the bottle, we got a lot of time out of it.

Actually, I remember some of the circumstances quite well. My wife had bought it as a Christmas present to ourselves. We spent the holiday with family, intending to try that Cognac after we returned. On the return flight, the plane took a sudden dive that seemed to last forever until the pilot regained control. My first thought was that I would never get to taste the Cognac.

Of course it's subjective. How could it be otherwise? My wife loves goat cheese and lamb; I find both to be nauseating.

Tacit,

We stopped doing trade shows a while back. I really enjoyed going to New York, but on a cost-per-copy-sold basis, trade shows are not a good investment in a recession. I will miss them.

On the spirits topic, I have had a few bottles of Armanac de Montal, which came in a wooden box useful for storing short, flexible cables.

Hi Jon
You made it sound so attractive that I almost bought it.
Mark

That doesn't address what I meant but, obviously, failed to get across.

I've never run across a high-end cognac that wasn't "good" in the sense that it was well-bred, well-produced, well-aged, and smooth, but I've run across any number of them that I've simply found personally unpalatable despite their qualifications.

I hope that makes sense.

I actually have no idea. The cognac was selected by my sweetie Maxine's other boyfriend Lex, and he's known on two continents for his impeccable taste in this matter, so I assume it was (reputedly, anyway) good cognac. Still seemed rather like flaming battery acid to me.

But then, I also don't like Scotch (or whiskey generally), wine (always tastes harsh and kind of like turpentine to me), or beer (I've never sampled a beer that wasn't so bitter it made me want to heave), so I'm willing to concede the issue may be with the peculiarities of my taste buds rather than with the drinks themselves.



I quite like Gosling, but I've recently been introduced by a friend of mine to a brand called Seven Tiki. It's less expensive than Gosling but tastes smoother and richer; I've become quite a fan. In fact, i was delighted to discover that one store in Portland now carries it; in the past, I've had to travel to San Francisco to find it. (When that friend and I were in SF for MacWorld, we picked up seven bottles between us--one for me, two for him, and the rest for other friends who've likewise acquired a taste for it.)

> Still seemed rather like flaming battery acid to me.

Well... In all honesty, the really good cognacs do give you the sensation of drinking liquid fire, but they're sooo smooth and taste sooo good, and that's what cognac is about.

Thanks for the heads-up on Seven Tiki; I'll see if I can find a taste.

That's what I have concluded about my aversion to goat cheese and lamb. I have found the taste of lamb to be disgusting ever since I was little. Goat cheese has similar components to me. My wife can't understand this since she has always liked both. Once, she got me to try a small sliver of, according to her, an excellent goat cheese. I spent 10 minutes bent over the sink trying to wash the taste out of my mouth. Needless to say, she never asked again. In fact, even the slightest hint of "lambiness" or "goatiness" makes me want to gag.

Considering that so many people like these items, it must be something in my genes.

Yet another, and perhaps most basic reason to respect the common wisdom that there's no arguing about taste.

Take this thread for example.

Oh, I'm quite willing to argue taste, even in subjective matters.

Salut! And have at it!

I'm at a convention at the moment with a couple of my sweeties, one of whom is British and has the habit of preparing tea for everyone on a regular basis. It's a lovely habit that's almost nice enough to make up for that whole "globe-spanning slave empire built on tea" thing.

I'm sitting in the hotel suite sipping a cup of tea as I type this, and it's reminded me all over again how pleasant it is to make tea a normal part of the daily routine. (Not that there's anything particularly routine about being at a convention, but you know what I mean.)

Unfortunately, there's not enough research done to completely clear up the distinction between what's culturally induced and what is biologically determined with respect to the flavors we perceive in our mouths, but living in the southwest I am well acquainted with the controversy over cilantro, which arouses such passionate love or hate that it may be one of the most studied examples of differing tastes in food.

Those who are interested can follow some of the links in this NPR report from 2008 and read this 2010 story in the NYT.

As usual, I find I don't fit neatly into any of the categories that the experts like to set up to describe the situation. I hate half the things supertasters are supposed to hate, but love the other half. I love cilantro, by the way, though I can sort of taste the soapiness that others decry.

As far as taste in the fashion sense of the word, I can't begin to understand what creates those preferences in people. I think my main objectives in fashion are to find clothes that actually fit (a hard enough task if you are buying ready made clothes) and to not call attention to myself. The things I see in fashion magazines and on some celebrities just look comical to me. Makeup and body modifications, while seen by some as a form of individual expression, to me just obscure a person's individuality and uniqueness.

I recall being horribly embarrassed as a child when my mother, following the current fashions, started buying red, white and blue striped bell-bottom pants and the like for me and my brother to wear. Perhaps that's what traumatized me into adopting my current bland fashion sense!

I saw a couple of kids on the bus yesterday who looked to be around 6 years old and were sporting mohawks and pierced ears, and they seemed perfectly comfortable with their appearance. Times have changed.

I guess I should comment on the original subject of the thread, too. As far as teas go, I prefers fruity herbal teas (probably not considered to be "real" teas by true tea aficianados since they don't actually contain tea!). Give me a cup of Celestial Seasonings Raspberry Zinger or Lemon Zinger (hot in winter, iced in summer) and I'll be happy.

I found cilantro to be a bit off-putting when I first tried it but I now like and appreciate its flavor. A friend of ours cannot abide peppers, whether of the red, green, yellow or orange variety. By way of contrast, I love all of them.

You're right about herbal "tea" not being tea. By definition, tea is made from the Camellia sinensis plant. By that definition, mate is also not included as tea. For those who have never tried it, it has a unique flavor that I really enjoy. For me, it has the effect of caffeine but, oddly enough, doesn't keep me awake.

But have you noticed that yerba mate translates as "killer herb"?

Actually, mate has muchas significaciones. Take your pick:
teapot, bald head, checkmate, ....

Amusingly, this Wikipedia article clears up that misconception, but still uses the improper accent in its title!

"Checkmate" I get, but not "teapot", and I thought a bald head was a "pate" not a "mate". What am I missing?

RE What am I missing?

A good Spanish-English dictionary?!

TeaSource in St. Paul, MN has Russian Caravan.

Apparently, there's a place called Limbo here in Portland that carries Russian Caravan too, or so I'm told. Have to check it out when I get more time.

Limbo's Wall of Herbs

Coffee drinkers have their feces-processed beverage, Kopi Luwak, but it appears tea drinkers are to be blessed with one of their own - Panda Poop Tea - at only $200 a cup.

The entrepreneur described the first brew as "fragrant and smooth". I wonder how he defines fragrant.

Well, I don't want to rain on your parade (or p€€ in your tea as the case may be ), but this panda p°°p tea lacks a certain je ne sais quoi that makes the kopi luwak so extra special, don't you think? Not to put too fine a point on it, we're talking about fertilizer here, it's not like we brew the p°°, right?

We're on the same page. I guess I should have used one of the faces but I didn't see one with a tongue fixed firmly in a cheek....hence the speculation on the entrepreneur's definition of "fragrant".

In another press story they quoted an Englishman who said it tasted like s**t, and my guess is that he didn't say salt.

Even the French are getting into tea. France's silent tea revolution. I can personally recommend teas from Mariage Freres and Le Palais des Thés.

And, aside from the glass and pot of water, they do have one quite elegant touch, milk arriving hot. My wife would like that.

As much as you like tea, Jon, I have a feeling you're not about to surpass Monsieur de Landgrave who would have 40 cups. Talk about bladder control.

Of course, you might want to add where you can get them, shy of hopping over to Paris or to NYC's upper West side for that matter. For instance, I know that in 'your' neck of the woods Zabar's carries Kusmi teas, Dean & DeLuca offers Mariage Freres products, while Le Palais des Thés recently opened up shop near Zabar's. These purveyors may be on your regular shopping route, but what for the rest of us who cannot stick our noses up those tea bins?

How about the tribal chief who drank 40 cups and, that night, drowned in his own tea pee?

Thanks for supplying those links.