Home Forums Hardware Mac Desktops & Notebooks Go Fusion drive or all SSD?

I 'm poised to buy a new 27" (my old one is 6 years old). In the Apple store today the rep said the Fusion drives only have 24 SSD on them and the rest it old style platter -- about.. 40 to 1 ratio!. Yet online Apple says it this type of magic drive knows what you have been using and opens it up with SSD. I was leaning toward just getting a 500GB SSD which cost more, but want to ask how fusion works first, he could not explain that well.

Also, he kept saying the OS is only 4GB. But on my macbook air (60GB Mac HD) it keeps running out of space (will be replacing soon), and all I have on that is 10GB of apps and 5 GB of imap mail. That's it!
The rest is Library, system, and other hidden obtuse system things like Private folders which I have no idea what is in there. So to me there the OS is taking 40GB for all intents and purposes.

Finally, the consensus seems to be 16 GB Ram is enough? And don't buy Apples, save $ and go crucial?

Thanks.

My 27" iMac has a 1 TB (nominal) fusion drive. TechTool Pro lists the SSD portion at 121.33 GB and the conventional part at 1 TB. The first thing that I noticed about it was the speed at which it cold boots, around 15 seconds. Everything seems to work very fast. I also have an external thunderbolt SSD clone, which boots even faster. I haven't run anything from the clone so I can't speak about relative speeds.

As to the size of the system, my System folder weighs in at 8.53 GB. I haven't tried to add up all the Apple apps that are included, but probably that would add about another 2 GB or so.

As to RAM, I added 8 GB of OWC RAM when I bought the machine, making a total of 16 GB. Apple RAM is way overpriced, so I agree about buying another brand. For my needs, 16 GB is quite enough. If you do a lot of video editing, I don't know, but I don't do that.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on the 500 GB SSD. The Fusion drive gives great performance with twice the capacity.

My 2¢.

Thanks JC

1) The guy at the store said very clearly the 1TB has just 24 GB SSD period. Do you have a link that states online what it is?

2) He also said twice that the OS is just 4GB, yet my mabook (60GB) is full to the brim with just OS/ system / and apps! ???

3) Ram I could call crucial, but how many slots and how many cards, you just add to the 2 4 sticks they give you...?

4) Finally someone said somewhere,,,,? that the Fusion SSD only helps with OS, or app speed, not with Data, is that true, if not, what do I do copy over 100 GB folders of images and wait for the copy to end, then play around, delete that, and repeat in future for other folders of images I want a speed bump? But again, I just heard today that the Fusion SSD is only for the OS/ app speed not data.

1) The guy at the store said very clearly the 1TB has just 24 GB SSD period. Do you have a link that states online what it is?

That guy was probably right. Read Apple slims 1 TB Fusion Drive down to a measly 24 GB of flash storage. Until you posted, I hadn't realized that Apple had changed the specs from my model.

2) He also said twice that the OS is just 4GB, yet my mabook (60GB) is full to the brim with just OS/ system / and apps! ???

All I can say is that the El Capitan installer takes up 6 GB (per Apple).

3) Ram I could call crucial, but how many slots and how many cards, you just add to the 2 4 sticks they give you...?

There are 4 slots, of which 2 are occupied by Apple RAM. You can keep that and fill the other two, or replace OEM RAM with RAM of your choice. According to MacTracker, the new 27" iMac can handle up to 64 GB, despite Apple specifying 32.

4) Finally someone said somewhere,,,,? that the Fusion SSD only helps with OS, or app speed, not with Data, is that true, if not, what do I do copy over 100 GB folders of images and wait for the copy to end, then play around, delete that, and repeat in future for other folders of images I want a speed bump? But again, I just heard today that the Fusion SSD is only for the OS/ app speed not data.

I can't answer this one.

Thanks JC 16 Ram seems to be the consensus is that is all you need. Final bit:

Are there online links that actually show what SSD you get with the Fusions and if not is that odd?

The issue: The Fusions only work for OS/ apps, not data, if that is the case then it's quite limited...

I can't speak to the exact fusion drive that Apple is using, but my past experience with putting a Seagate fusion drive into my 2009 MacBook (and now installed in an early 2009 Mac Mini) has been quite favorable.

The drive only has 6 GB of SSD out of the 500 GB stated capacity, but makes the mini significantly more responsive in startup and use.

As I understood it at the time, the NAND component of a fusion drive is not used for primary storage but rather as an enhanced buffer to reduce repeat access of the main platter when fetching data (both OS and otherwise). The end result is to have a kind of blend of the "best of both worlds" by using the NAND to expedite throughput and the conventional component of the drive to provide more storage at reduced cost.

I think you've got a good handle on the RAM question, and hopefully this description will give you what you need to make an informed choice on the fusion drive.....FWIW, 24GB of NAND in the fusion drive creates a HUGE buffer to speed LOTS of fetches from the drive.

Thanks Mac, others..


Ok thanks, I'm down to this, 27" with as Mac HD pure 500SSD or 3 TB fusion, which has 128 GB SSD. The are about the same price, within $100. The fusion is cool as it's one less external to buy. I've heard good things about Fusion, but I don't know what to choose: I'd have to live with both for awhile and see if there is a big speed difference and that will never happen, since I'll never guy both to compare, hence how to decide?

I've always stored most data on externals, so the Fustion 3TB would eliminate an external being my main data point. The externals then would only be for backup. So that would be a new benefit. And for the first time ever my date (which is mostly excel files and Photoshop files would reside in the MacHD, not an external). But I'm open to suggestion between these two choice.

Oh, and I may buy new external, (5 years old now), and just keep about 1TB of images I hardly ever look at into the closet in the "old" which now current externals. I could have 3 copies of that -- hope they wont disappear on the little used "archive" externals over the years...

My 2¢:

I would opt for the 3 TB fusion drive due to the large amount of storage. I would then get an external Thunderbolt enclosure with a SSD. My current external setup includes a OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual Multi-Interface Performance RAID Enclosure Kit with two 2 TB Hitachi Deskstars (one dedicated as a Time Machine drive, the other a clone). At some point, I may replace them with SSDs by using two NewerTech AdaptaDrives. I also have an OWC Drive Dock with a 480 GB SSD (my second clone) installed in one bay (the other is currently empty).

At any rate, my 1 TB fusion drive is in no danger of running out of room anytime soon. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks Jon, you set up exteranlly is a bit to complex for me, but I leaning to just getting it all on the 3TB and then backing up externally, maybe storing in closet one TB that I never use hardly ever.

Whatever you decide, I highly recommend having both a Time Machine backup and a clone. Awhile back, I accidentally deleted all my photos (probably over 1000). Unfortunately, I had updated my clone before I realized that they were gone. I was able to restore them from my TM backup.

I have made use of the ability to boot from a clone in order to run diagnostics (chiefly Disk Warrior) on my internal drive. You can't boot from a TM backup. Also, I was able to restore an entire system by cloning back, and in about 3 minutes, from my SSD clone. That's faster than restoring from TM. This happened when Apple issued a security update that broke my ethernet connection. I manually copied the few files that had changed to the clone, then booted from the clone and cloned back. By that time, Apple had issued a fix, but I would not have been able to get it because I couldn't connect to the internet.

It pays to have multiple backups.

thanks Jon, I have always a clone hd back and one off site too.

And TM, but for TM what is the rule for space 2x 3x?

Also some people use cloud back up services on top of all that.

At least 2x. For example, my iMac has 500GB HD and I got a 1TB Western Digital My Passport for TM.
It would certainly depend on how much you've got to back up; I've got very little and after 4+ years still have 800GB available.

That is easily remedied, and strongly recommended. Just boot off internet recovery with your TM drive attached, and do an OS reinstall, but select the TM drive. The TM backup can peacefully coexist with an OS installation.

Having a bootable recovery drive is a very handy thing for many reasons.

Great tip. Thank you!

I used Tech Tool Pro 8's Pro-To-Go utility to create a Recovery Drive partition on a Time Machine drive. It has the advantage of being able to boot any El Capitan compatible Mac and either install/reinstall OS X or restore the system from the Time Machine backup. An additional feature of the Pro-To-Go Recovery Drive is has Tech Tool Pro 8 as well as Disk Utility on it.

FULL DISCLOSURE I have no pecuniary relationship with Micromat.

Is anyone commenting on self-installation of RAM?

Aren't the newer iMacs a bit more complicated to open?

Ira, I was in the Apple store and they rep said instaling memory is actually much easier that in the past, he said you just drop it right in by hand. I hated last times I did that 5 years ago. I hope he is correct.

Joe: I have not used tech tool pro or disc warrior in years. I just use Super Duper and make clone that way for bootable backup of the OS.

Only the 27" iMacs have user-replaceable RAM. And yes, it's very easy to do it.

Only if it doesn't involve a soldering iron

It all depends on which Mac you are referring to. More and more models have the RAM soldered to the logic board and what what comes with the Mac when you buy it is what you get — period.

Fusion drives are a way to try to get SSD performance on the cheap. Do they work? Kind of. They speed booting and they speed things like virtual memory, but they do not speed loading or saving data.

I splurged and put a third-party 1TB SSD in my MacBook Pro. Holy hell, it sped up the computer like you would not believe. I knew it would be faster, but I was gobsmacked, seriously. Yes, it's spendy, but the performance is unbelievable. I would strongly, strongly recommend going all-SSD, not Fusion, if you can afford it. The performance boost for everything, not just booting, is worth it. (You know how folks say putting an SSD in an old computer is like getting a whole new computer? Yeah, it's like that.)

I took the old hard drive that came with my MacBook Pro and put it in space where the DVD drive used to be, and now when I boot from the old-fashioned spinning rust hard drive, I am astonished that I ever tolerated how slow everything is. Not just booting, but everything--launching apps, reading and writing files, all so much faster on the SSD there's no comparison.

Get an SSD. Seriously. Get an SSD. You won't be sorry.

As for RAM, generally speaking, more is better. My MBP has 16 GB in it, which is the most it's possible to put in here, and I really, really wish I could put 32 GB in it. I know I'm not a normal user, but still, I find myself filling up 16 GB and having to quit apps all the time. (Of course, I'm a developer so I'm often running Parallels and developer tools at the same time, but still.)

The thing is, you're spending a lot of money. You want to maximize the length of time you can use the system and maximize the benefit you can get from it. The two things that make it most future-proof are more RAM and more hard drive space.

You'll save a ton of money buying it with minimal RAM from Apple and then buying more RAM from a third party; Apple charges a premium for RAM. IF--and this is a big if--your computer has upgradeable RAM. If it has soldered-on RAM, always go with the max you can afford.

A hard drive is trickier. n modern Macs, it's not a user-installable item. Still, Apple charges a lot for SSDs too, so if there's a service center near you that does Apple repairs but isn't an official Apple shop, you can often save money buying a third-party hard drive and having them install it. (I put a 3TB hard drive in an iMac by buying the drive off Amazon and taking it to PowerMax; they charged me $40 to install it. Even with that $40, it was still cheaper than getting it from Apple with the larger hard drive.)

Before anyone attempts to install a SSD in an iMac, he should watch this instructional video. Personally, I too would have it installed professionally. This is something that I would never try! It looks easier to install a SSD in a laptop. For access to other Mac models, see this OWC page.

I watched the video and having bricked a Mac mini in the past by improperly disconnecting an internal cable I elected to let OWC do it. Total down time three days (overnight shipping each way) and very reasonable charges. IMO a good alternative to DIY when things start getting complicated.

Tacit, thanks dang too late, but I did order the 27" a few days ago with the apple installed 500 SSD and not Fusion. Many said fusion is great, and I leaning towards it, but one guy who I respect and was passionate like you said hands down all ssd is better. That said it's only 500. Had I read your post a week ago, maybe I would have just gotten the base unit, and then taken it in and bought 1 TB or even 500 SSD from a cheap site like OCW. 500SSD was a $500 add on, what would I have saved going to ocw and bringing it to someone?

Then I bought from BH all new hardrives. My externals have not been replaced in 5 years. I bought three 5 TBs, at $140 each and one 8TB for time machines at $220.

And yesterday I bought 128SSD for my 3 1/2 year old macbook air from ocw which was running out of room. For that I will watch the video and then call then and try to install that myself.

I could have kept my 27", which takes 1 minute to open apps now, and just installed SSD, but at 6 1/2 years old, I felt that was a good run. No point in investing anything into money into an almost seven year old machine right? And I will like the new retina screen. The laptop is only 3 1/2 years old and the screen is small to new retina is not so important.

For ram, everyone has been saying 16 is enough Tacit. You would recommend what?

I have 16 GB of RAM in my MBP and 24 in my iMac. I would really like a MBP with 32 GB of RAM in a MBP, but as of the last time I checked, Apple does not sell any laptops capable of over 16 GB of RAM. (It has long been my belief that Apple's one crippling flaw, going all the way back to the Macintosh SE/30, is they never permit enough RAM in their computers.)

I want to replace my MBP, but I won't buy a new laptop 'til I can get at least 32 GB of RAM for it.