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I couldn't bring myself to post this in the networking forum, because it is just an observation:

I'd been using Safari for quite awhile as my default browser, then it started behaving strangely as observed in another thread. There have been two new releases since, and neither has solved the picture loading problem for me.

I went back to Opera and like it. Recently, however, ads have been annoying me. I have never used Chrome before. I finally decided that there is nothing left for Google to learn about me, so broke down and installed Chrome.

Pretty decent browser, but this is the reason for my post:

Google's Chrome browser does a terrific job of block ads. Who would have thought when it is Google choosing which ads to show you! I'm in Chrome now, only because all my bookmarks are set up for Opera. I think Chrome might be my default browser soon, unless someone can persuade me otherwise. You know, dark force and all that...

You might also take a look at Brave an offshoot of Chrome, but sans some of Chrome's hidden phone home code. No matter what browser you use ad blocking will at best be temporary. There is enough money involved to assure the best minds in the business will be devoted to getting around any ad blocker strategy sooner rather than later. I recently encountered a web site that offered a significant discount on their products -- if you disabled ad-blockers.

If you are willing to consider a really different browser model take a look at ARC. It uses the same rendering engine and extensions as Chrome, but is a new take on the user interface and prides itself on its built-in ad blocking and security.

Some of ARC's major features are also in Safari 17.0 that comes with Sonoma

Thanks for those links. Brave started up easy and looks worth exploring. ARC wanted me to open an account and got shut down until I feel comfortable with that idea.

FYI The account is the mechanism used to share the browser data with the ARC browser on other devices such as the iPhone and iPad. You can use ARC without Registering for an account.

Reviewers indicate ARC is more secure than Brave and significantly more secure than either Chrome or Firefox, but those tests were on Windows and YMMV. i did a quick check and EFF's Cover Your Tracks and ARC is strong but has gaps. Safari 17.0. is Strong and without gaps in protection.

I am going to keep ARC around, but I will probably stick with Safari as my default browser.

I'm running Wipr and Roadblock with all options checked (in Safari), and I never see any ads, although I do see this with Roadblock Toolbar:

Permissions:
• Webpage Contents
Can read sensitive information from webpages, including passwords, phone
numbers, and credit cards. Can alter the appearance and behavior of webpages.
This applies on all webpages.
• Browsing History
Can see when you visit all webpages.

Since you've got such a deep understanding of these things, is there something security-wise that I'm failing to understand, for instance, at what risk, if any, doesRoadblock Toolbar's ability to read sensitive info put me?

I particularly like Roadblock Toolbar's ability to add custom rules to visually block and hide elements of web pages, i.e.
Webpage
• Block and Hide Visually
but I've been running it for so long that I rarely need the feature any more, so would I be best off turning it off 'til I need to use it? (Rhetorical question?)

I am not familiar with Roadblock, but those are relatively permissions for browser extensions to ask for and have. The risk, if any, is not that the extension has access to the information, rather what is done with the information after the extension gets it. It would be difficult, if not impossible, for Roadblock or similar applications to function without full access to all the data flowing through the browser. Of course, that would include sensitive items such as Webpage Contents, information from webpages, passwords, phone numbers, and browsing history. Ventura and Sonoma are very specific on what kinds of information in each application can be accessed by another application, and require explicit user authorization to do so, which makes it much more visible what is going on. (iOS and iPadOS do not permit it period, end of discussion.) Once the data is accessed, the developer has multiple options of what to do with it including, but not limited to...

• acting on the data and forgetting it,
• sending it to a server for further processing and analysis,
• using it to improve the product functionality,
• selling it to the highest bidder.

It is this last option that you need to be concerned about.

Apps sold through the App Store are required to reveal what data is collected and what is done with it. In the case of Roadblock that reads as shown here. Ie. the first, and most secure option and therefore you have no reason for concern.

Thanks for setting my mind at ease. I'll rely on the dev's honesty until they're proven guilty.

Roadblock's primary attraction is that it's the only app/extension of which I'm aware that can block individual html elements of a web page, FTM's "masthead," for instance, and I've used it to eliminate the "eye candy" from all the websites I visit regularly.

The functionality was included in the original AdBlock - dunno what it's called now - but it disappeared somewhere along the line.

Chrome, Brave, and ARC update

The discussion of Chrome based browsers, Brave and Arc led me to further exploration of their privacy claims. So I went back to the Electronic Frontiers Foundation's CoverYourTracks and re-examined the browsers' security levels and compared them with Safari.

IN MY OPINION, the results in rank order from most to least secure are...

1. Safari 17.0: Blocks Tracking Ads, Blocks invisible trackers, Has a unique Fingerprint (observation: the unique signature is probably the result of safari 17.0 being a pre-release, so no other copies have been tested yet, thus making it unique. {Admittedly, I am not an impartial observer :o}.)
2. BRAVE: Blocks tracking ads, Blocks invisible Trackers, has a randomized browser footprint (observation: a relatively standard browser, with numerous Google, Chrome, Microsoft Edge links and references throughout, enough to make me suspicious of hidden data traps in the Chrome roots.
3. ARC: Allows tracking ads, Blocks invisible trackers, has a randomized browser footprint (observation: there are Google, Chrome, Microsoft Edge links and references throughout ARC. I even found internal references where Arc identified itself as Chrome. It is enough to make me suspicious, even though I like its unique user experience. However, ARC is very new and still evolving rapidly, so I will keep it around for now and recheck often.)

I find this thread extraordinarily baffling.

I have been using Mozilla Firefox (ever since Netscape morphed into it) — as most members of the FTM know — and have attempted to proselytize such among FTM members.

I am currently running it with all appropriate/relevant/desired security and privacy features + uBlock Origin. No ads. No "accidents". No interference. Nothing I don't want.

'Nuf said. So let it be written. So let it be done.

From the reviews I have read recently what you are not seeing is how much of your data Firefox is sending home, or what they are doing with it. It should be noted those reviews were all based on Windows browsers, not macOS or iOS.

Thanks for the info. I'll wait for some sort of examination of such when it applies to macOS.
At the moment I'm happy with what I've got.

What you think/believe you've got, anyhow.

It's been years now since you so adamantly disdained Safari, so please refresh my memory about why.

It never "worked" for me ... in any of its iterations. Long and short of it ...
Having used Netscape > Firefox since getting into the Mac world, I saw no reason to fix something that didn't need fixing.

For the sake of (relative) completeness, re "what you are not seeing is how much of your data Firefox is sending home, or what they are doing with it" ...

Following are my settings vis-à-vis FIREFOX BROWSER PRIVACY & SECURITY:

ENHANCED TRACKING PROTECTION WITH RESPECT TO
• Social media trackers
• Cross-site tracking cookies
• Tracking content in all windows
• Cryptominers
• Fingerprinters

Websites are sent a “Do Not Track” signal.

SECURITY — Deceptive Content & Dangerous Software Protection
• Dangerous and deceptive content blocked
• Dangerous downloads blocked
• Warning about unwanted and uncommon software

FIREFOX DATA COLLECTION AND USE
Not allowed:
• Sending technical and interaction data to Mozilla
• Making personalized extension recommendations
• Installing and running studies
• Sending backlogged crash reports

Since those are your SETTINGS (they sound more like they were written by an advertising agency ) how have you verified the functionality of those settings? Have you tested Firefox against a non-biased third party test system such as ps://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ to see how it stands up?

NOTE: I have not tested FireFox on Cover Your Tracks, but I have tested the TOR browser, a.k.a. The Onion Router, which is based on Firefox and although and at its highest security settings TOR is extremely secure and slow. Unfortunately many web sites and virtually no e-commerce sites will work in TOR because one of the first things any secure browser must do is disable JavaScript That is an honest question not intended to disparage Firefox in any way.

I long ago learned that like mice and keyboards, browsers are a personal preference and users will defend their choice, regardless of what others think. I used Netscape long before it morphed into Firefox and did not like Firefox from the beginning because it didn't feel right, and still doesn't. Other than that, I have no objection to Firefox other than its apparently growing links to Microsoft, Google and Google services. Since Mac OS X I have pretty much stuck with Safari, if for no reason other than it integrates so well with other Apple and third-party and it works well, even though for a growing number of sites it is becoming necessary to disable its content blockers. I really like the look and function of the [url=https://thebrowser.company/Arc browser[/url], but it lacks the easy integration with the apps I use daily and thanks to its Chrome roots, has even closer links to Google (but not Microsoft). Personally, I will keep Arc and actively encourage its developers to improve their links with other macOS apps and work on their anti-tracking tools, but I will continue to use Safari as my primary.

I haven't tested anything and don't intend to unless and until I have some indication that my life is being negatively affected and such is attributable to Firefox.

Life is too short, and I'd rather work on my Wordle skills — so far the best start word is LATER/ALTER/RATEL.