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#1950 - 08/24/09 03:21 PM Entourage 2004 Freeze
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
A client's Entourage 2004 is freezing while attempting to load new received messages. I had her access messages through a web interface and delete an "apparent" offending message, with no luck. We've tried all the usual "fixes", such as Database Utilities, font checks and permissions repair - nada.

Any suggestions?


Edited by dianne (08/24/09 05:29 PM)
Edit Reason: moved from Mac OS X Applications.
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#1953 - 08/24/09 03:35 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
macnerd10 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Any luck with trashing preferences? She might like to trash Entourage.plist and the whole Microsoft folder in the user>library>preferences. How about another account?
An easier way to see if the prefs are corrupted could be to add a new account in Entourage with a new name, configure it the same way as the old one and see if it works. If no, check the prefs, if yes, delete the old one.
Tell us how it goes.
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#1956 - 08/24/09 03:42 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: macnerd10]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Thanks for the speedy reply. We trashed all the requisite prefs. A new user account does NOT have this problem. This strikes me as an indication the Database in the offending account is damaged and irreparable. The problem now is how to access very important messages in the "broken" Database.
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#1960 - 08/24/09 04:12 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
Virtual1 Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Iowa
Entouraid is good for this. We've had to use it 1/2 dozen times because Entourage's database self destructs without warning when it hits a gig, and ppl around here like to keep hundreds of 20-50mb PDFs in subfolders "just in case they need them later".
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#1962 - 08/24/09 04:44 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Virtual1]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Thank you, but I'm not sure that tool will help. Entourage's Database Utility reports no problems with the database and it has been repaired nonetheless. And I thought the size limitation issues had been addressed in prior updates. I have quite a few clients whose databases exceed 5 GB or 6 GB, with no signs of problems for a long time.
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#1969 - 08/24/09 06:36 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Well there must be something corrupt in there, nonetheless. Wouldn't hurt to give a util a try (except for the $). How about dragging the folders out as mbox files and dragging them back into a new profile?
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#1997 - 08/25/09 06:40 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
The $ is the problem. With no guarantee of any results, the reluctance is understandable. Where would one find the mbox files? The Database is a "safe".
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#2006 - 08/25/09 09:35 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
If you drag a mail folder to the Finder, it will create an mbox file. You can do that for each [sub]folder and then drag those back into a new profile. Since the db repair util isn't seeing anything wrong, but still seems to be carrying over something corrupt to the freshly-rebuilt db, dragging out to mbox files would certainly strip any Entourage overhead, so it's worth trying.

Also, what happens if you copy that same profile to another Mac? I wonder if there's a font corruption or something else specific to that machine outside of Entourage, that isn't showing up in your checks (maybe very obscure). I assume you've also tried killing all Entourage/Office prefs, etc, and recreating the account (POP3/SMTP) settings.
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#2008 - 08/25/09 10:15 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Thanks, doni... and thanks to all, so far.

Where would I find a mail folder within the MS Database?

BTW, we went through the fonts and ensured none were the problem. I'm thinking to set up a new Entourage account and import the old data, once it's archived. Of course, archiving is a problem, since we cannot catch anything before the freeze.


Edited by Mississauga (08/25/09 10:18 AM)
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#2009 - 08/25/09 10:47 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
By mail folder, I just mean a folder of mail within the Entourage interface. Inbox, Sent Items, My Work 2009, etc. If you drag one of those logical folders to the desktop, it will create an mbox file of it.

If you set Entourage to work offline, will it stop freezing so you can archive? I inferred from your earlier post that it froze during checking mail.

I'd also just try the profile/db on another machine in case it's something obscure on this specific Mac outside of the db or anything else you've checked. Prob the easiest thing to rule out before mucking with folder-level archiving.
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#2010 - 08/25/09 10:50 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
The real problem is that the moment Entourage launches, it immediately starts to send the last outgoing message and then freezes. No user interaction is possible, so none of the mailbox folders are accessible. We went to the web mail and tried to delete messages, but with no positive results.
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#2011 - 08/25/09 10:53 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Usually right after launch, you can quickly set it to work offline mode before it attempts to send. No such luck?
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#2012 - 08/25/09 11:03 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Will try, once my client returns to her office.

Cheers!
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#2019 - 08/25/09 11:53 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
Having never used the Work Offline feature, who would have thought the fix would be SO simple?!?! Once offline, the apparent offending outgoing message was deleted and all is well, once again. My client asked me to pass along her most sincere thanks! And I thank you, too.

laugh
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#2021 - 08/25/09 12:15 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Glad it all worked out! Stuck Outbox messages have always been a problem with Entourage 2004. Wonder if 2008 is better about it? (I have 2008 installed, but pretty much stick with Outlook nowadays.)
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#2038 - 08/25/09 02:05 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
sandbox Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Water World
I have 2.3, 3.1, 4.8 GB databases in Entourage without ever a problem. GB ceiling? I've never seen one and I've had Entourage on multiple Macs and OS's since Jaguar.

Apple Mail will import the Entourage data base so as a last resort one could change email clients and preserve data.


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#2045 - 08/25/09 02:33 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: sandbox]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
The issue has nothing to do with db size, it was a stuck Outbox item. As I wrote, this is not uncommon in Entourage 2004, but it's an easy enough fix.
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#2049 - 08/25/09 02:43 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
cyn Offline

Administrator

Registered: 08/03/09
Doni, I believe sandbox was responding to Virtual1's "because Entourage's database self destructs without warning when it hits a gig" statement.
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#2061 - 08/25/09 05:44 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: sandbox]
Mississauga Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Mississauga, ON, Canada
The database file size issue related to MS Office X, as far as I recall.

Great tip about importing the Entourage database into Mail. The client who was having the problem is now planning to switch all 10 Macs to Apple's solutions, as well as setting up an Apple server.
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#2076 - 08/26/09 12:39 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Mississauga]
sandbox Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Water World
Oh I see how this works...if I click reply on the bottom of the box rather than on the top of the page it directs the post to the person associated to the reply box. Ops.

The moderator was correct Mississauga, I was addressing the database file size issue in Entourage that was mentioned. I have no problems in that regard, nor do I have one with MS Office X.

Without this Production Suite I could not use a Mac in our business. The MS Office Suite is vital to the success of Apple in a business/government climate.

I would be interested in examining that file that would not SEND. A contaminated file perhaps or uncompressed and or to large? What was it about that file?






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#2085 - 08/26/09 08:32 AM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: sandbox]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
Sorry sandbox, your reply positioning confused me. I forget that the layout isn't so obvious. wink

It's not uncommon for a sent message to get stuck in the Outbox for no obvious reason, simply some kind of "curruption." The large file is an interesting point: once upon a time Entourage had a bug that could bring down an entire Exchange server if someone tried to send a message that was too large, but that was patched a long time ago. Nowadays a user should just receive an error from a mail server if the message was too large to be sent.

Re Entourage db size, note that Entourage X does indeed have a 4 GB db size limit, but 2004 and later do not: http://www.entourage.mvps.org/database/size.html
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#2215 - 08/27/09 08:04 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
sandbox Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Water World
I've just arrived, I met Tacit elsewhere and thought that he could built a solid barn.

There's a lot of misinformation out there about the MS Office Suite, all I can do is relay what I have experienced...thus far no limits have been reached in my multiple 2004 entourage databases.

Take care.
http://www.2iview.com

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#2402 - 08/29/09 07:21 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: Virtual1]
steve626 Offline


Registered: 08/29/09
Originally Posted By: Virtual1
... Entourage's database self destructs without warning when it hits a gig, and ppl around here like to keep hundreds of 20-50mb PDFs in subfolders "just in case they need them later".


My employer recently switched to Outlook/Entourage and has been in close contact with Microsoft due to some issues with the calendar and email tools. Microsoft is paying attention to us because we include one of the large government centers and they want our experience to go well. We have been told that there is no file size limit with the database (mine is over 5 Gig so far; I've seen others much larger) as long as the OS can handle the file. We were also told that 2 million messages is the limit. This seems large but it is misleading because each email counts as two and every calendar entry counts also plus there are multiple emails that are generated for each calendar item. And our secretaries sometimes manage calendars for a dozen people or more, so multiply these things all up, and 2 million doesn't look that big. If you just use email, I think 2 million should be fine, and subsequent versions of the program will allow for even more. (We've had Microsoft engineering teams come visit us to discuss these things.)

I use Outlook (on Windows via Parallels) and also Entourage (the Mac client) and at this time, the Mac Entourage client is much more limited and has many more "issues" (bugs) than the PC client. A new version of Entourage will be out soon that will address some, but not all, of those issues.

The Microsoft Database Utility (included with MS-Office) can be used to rebuild the database for Entourage, which will solve some problems.

Also -- Entourage 2008 is more reliable than 2004. In addition, use of both 2004 and 2008 on an Exchange Server will definitely cause problems, many of which will go away if all the users update to 2008.
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#2508 - 08/30/09 10:59 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: steve626]
donikatz Offline


Registered: 08/04/09
Loc: Gotham
use of both 2004 and 2008 on an Exchange Server will definitely cause problems, many of which will go away if all the users update to 2008.

Can you expound upon that a bit, please?
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#2690 - 09/01/09 09:46 PM Re: Entourage 2004 Freeze [Re: donikatz]
steve626 Offline


Registered: 08/29/09
Originally Posted By: donikatz
use of both 2004 and 2008 on an Exchange Server will definitely cause problems, many of which will go away if all the users update to 2008.

Can you expound upon that a bit, please?


This is what Microsoft emphatically and repeatedly told us, that with an Exchange Server, use of both Entourage 2004 and 2008, where calendaring as well as email is being managed in the Microsoft Exchange Server, will lead to known problems. They said the same thing about Outlook 2003 and 2007 for the PC side.

The above applies to use of a central Exchange Server. Microsoft said that in that situation, Entourage 2004 conflicts with 2008, Outlook 2003 conflicts with 2007. (And presumably Entourage 2004 doesn't work entirely well with Outlook 2007 and so on). They emphasized that all employees (all 7000+ at this site we have) must update to the latest versions of Entourage and Outlook for them all the work smoothly together.

I don't think the above caveat about using the latest versions applies to individuals running the software as a standalone email or calendaring program without the central Exchange Server (for instance, using Entourage or Outlook simply to retrieve emails from, say, Earthlink). Then any version of the software that is compatible with the internet/email provider should be fine, whether it is the 2003, 2004, 2007 or 2008 version.
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